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Lyme
10-20-07, 12:45 AM
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/10/deans_take_on_npd_numbers_for_september.html

One piece of news that came out this week was that Sony pleaded with third-party developers not to abandon its struggling platform. That change in attitude is a marked difference compared to the arrogance of past years. The argument is that the PS 3 will show its strength as developers learn how to make games for it. But developers know they can staff four or five Wii teams with the same number of people it takes to make one PS 3 game. We may have a glut of Wii games soon, but thatís not as bad as not having enough games on the PS 3.

Zelda_fan
10-20-07, 01:02 AM
hilarious as usual.

AthlonXP1800
10-20-07, 01:35 AM
Same thing happened to PS2 in the first year of PS2 life when developers need to learn how to take and explore full advantage of Emotion Engine.

But I think Wii is the biggest problem to 3rd party developers, they are worried that they may will abaondon it cos they dont really think Wii's success will last much longer now because of the graphics not up to par with Xbox 360 and PS3. Maybe when GTAIV out in 2008 then everybody will forget or get bored of Wii.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/11/software-developers-worried-about-the-wii-hesitant-to-make-game/

Medion
10-20-07, 03:06 AM
Same thing happened to PS2 in the first year of PS2 life when developers need to learn how to take and explore full advantage of Emotion Engine.

Wrong. At this point in the PS2's life span, it wasn't the 3rd best selling console. It was the fastest selling console, and 2nd in total installed userbase. The Dreamcast still had more systems in circulation, but Sega had recently dropped it.

AthlonXP1800
10-20-07, 05:19 AM
Wrong. At this point in the PS2's life span, it wasn't the 3rd best selling console. It was the fastest selling console, and 2nd in total installed userbase. The Dreamcast still had more systems in circulation, but Sega had recently dropped it.

That not what I am talked about, in the first year of PS2 lifespan, it had many issues like broken DVD software etc, around 4 million PS2s was sold in 10 months then after Sony released 2nd PS2 revision that fixed all issues saw the sales picked up.

If you looking at the console shipments chart below, you will see similar patterns in Playstation 2 and Playstation 3 in the first year lifespan. Playstation 3 sales will pick up in the next few months after price cuts.

http://www.cmmp.ucl.ac.uk/~atg/pics/console_shipments.png

Imbroglio
10-20-07, 07:14 AM
A) Past results do not gaurentee future outcomes, how about instead of comparing installed bases, you compare the number of AAA games out for each system at the same point in time (meaning lets not include every crappy port that many companies are trying to pass off as a ps3 game)


B) Medion, just so that you are aware, many people on this forum put AthlonXP almost on the same level as nVidiot, so before you start getting to far into this debate, remember who you are talking to


C) You talk about when people get bored with their Wii.... The majority of Wii owners that I know that would actively buy games for the console, have since placed the console in another room/closet, the novelty wears/has worn off for everyone, it's just a matter of when you got it.

Peoples-Agent
10-20-07, 07:56 AM
Does anyone have a list of PS3 Exclusives coming out this year and in '08 seeing as it's obvious the multi platform stuff is generally better on the 360 for one reason or another.

I want a PS3, but if there aren't many amazing exclusives for it.... it's a waste of time. I'm not bothered about Blu Ray.

tornadog
10-20-07, 08:52 AM
I want a PS3, but if there aren't many amazing exclusives for it.... it's a waste of time. I'm not bothered about Blu Ray.

Its a waste of time...dont bother...thanks!!!

fizzelopeguss
10-20-07, 10:09 AM
Now's the time for sony to be buying/bribing exclusives, or paying for extra features in multiplatform games.


I want a PS3, but if there aren't many amazing exclusives for it

Depends on your genre, it's getting two AAA platform games (ratched demo blew my bollocks off), which is two AAA platformers more than the x360 has ever had. :thumbdwn:

Zelda_fan
10-20-07, 10:31 AM
lol you know it's a sad situation when they claim "ratchet & clank" to be the game that will save their system.

ralinn
10-20-07, 11:19 AM
Well, if ratchet & clank is that good, why not?

fizzelopeguss
10-20-07, 11:26 AM
lol you know it's a sad situation when they claim "ratchet & clank" to be the game that will save their system.

Who said that?

Mr. Hunt
10-20-07, 11:37 AM
lol you know it's a sad situation when they claim "ratchet & clank" to be the game that will save their system.

Even sadder when your best game, which still isn't very good, is a port of an old crappy console game.

Tygerwoody
10-20-07, 11:50 AM
lol you know it's a sad situation when they claim "ratchet & clank" to be the game that will save their system.
I personally dont' believe PS3 won't have a game "save" the console until GT5, Metal Gear, or Final Fantasy release. These have always been the exclusives everyone is waiting on. I don't know why anyone would think a rodent and his robot friend would be a popular "system saving" game.

Lyme
10-20-07, 12:16 PM
If you looking at the console shipments chart below, you will see similar patterns in Playstation 2 and Playstation 3 in the first year lifespan. Playstation 3 sales will pick up in the next few months after price cuts.

The slope of the ps2 and ps3 are quite different in the first year. If anything the Wii has the slope that most closely matches the ps2. While comparing the performance of a console vs the performance of previously released consoles can help gauge future performance, you also need to keep in mind that the performance of a console in a current cycle is greatly effected by the performance and particulars of the other consoles in the same cycle.

Of notes there are a few issues with your chart that really should be addressed:
#1 - There is no reference stating where the chart comes from, what data is used, when it was produced, etc. In my line of work, if something like that came across my desk, even if I liked the outcomes, I'd toss it back at the analyst who produced it.
#2 - There is a distinct lack of resolution in the area describing the 360, Wii, and PS3, which makes it hard to make reasonable readings of how the console has been performing.

That being said it looks like the PS3 started off performing well, but now the slope has flattened. The PS2 on the other hand had a relatively consistent slope throughout it's lifespan.

Lets face it, the PS3 is not performing terribly well, and should it continue this kind of performance continue through this Christmas season, the console will end up being slightly more than a advanced dvd player. Should this outcome bother anyone? Not really, unless you have money invested in Sony. It is simply just another console, and should it flop you move to another.

The PS3 as it stands, technically is a very good console. However it has a few things working against it. Sony still is trying to sell it as a BD player rather than a game console (virtually all the pack-ins are movies). The big problem reducing the acceptance of the console is that while the PS3 has a good number of really good titles, they are coming in fits and spurts over a long period of time. In contrast the 360 has had a lineup of nearly 2-3x the good games within the same period.

One of the biggest problems in predicting the performance of consoles in this console release cycle is the continued sales of PS2 units. That console with it's massive installed base is still selling very well, when to take into account it's age, and seems to be depressing the sales of the more expensive consoles (360, ps3).

Lyme
10-20-07, 12:23 PM
I personally dont' believe PS3 won't have a game "save" the console until GT5, Metal Gear, or Final Fantasy release. These have always been the exclusives everyone is waiting on. I don't know why anyone would think a rodent and his robot friend would be a popular "system saving" game.

I don't think there are games that save a system. Look at the original xbox, Halo 1 & 2 were really well received and sold extremely well, and yet the console died. You need a lineup of regular releases of good titles to keep a console selling well, or be called a Wii.

LycosV
10-20-07, 12:41 PM
I didn't think it was a good plan originally, but I think Microsoft was right about the releasing first contest. By getting their console out to market first they did what Sony did to them last round. They built up an array of good games and had started pumping out great games by the time the competition got to the table.

The Wii has done well while releasing later, but it's cheap (relativly), a tactic that Sony was never willing to take.

NarcissistZero
10-20-07, 03:36 PM
There are many franchises that will, along with the coming price cut, move a ton of PS3s. Metal Gear, God of War, Final Fantasy, Killzone, what-have-you... None of them are coming this Christmas though, which is when Sony really needs to gain some ground.

As much as I am looking forward to Ratchet and Uncharted I know they're not enough to sell a system. Maybe those combined with Resistance, Heavenly Sword and MotorStorm, and the $400 price, are enough... still, I have my doubts.

Microsoft has made no secret they buy a ton of exclusives for their system... why Sony doesn't follow suit at this point is anyone's guess. Maybe they are, but nothing is close enough to announce yet.

AthlonXP1800
10-20-07, 03:58 PM
A) Past results do not gaurentee future outcomes, how about instead of comparing installed bases, you compare the number of AAA games out for each system at the same point in time (meaning lets not include every crappy port that many companies are trying to pass off as a ps3 game)

Games publishers said past results can guarantee future outcomes, just looked at Playstation and Playstation 2, Nintendo 64 and Gamecube. But why didnt Wii have many upcoming AAA titles like Golden Axe, GTA3/Vice City/San Andreas, Half Life 2, Silent Hill and others?

Because Wii is not for hardcores, they for kiddies. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are for hardcore users like me.

WN: What is the future of the Silent Hill series?

AY: We're making Silent Hill 5 for next-gen consoles. Are there any other platforms besides that? [laughter]

WN: There's the Wii.

AY: Ah, the Wii. Wiiiiiiiiii... Silent Hill Wii. Can we do it? Will players like it?

WN: Yeah! There's a lot of potential there, using the remote as a flashlight, or a knife...

AY: Yeah, there's potential.

WN: But no plans.

AY: No plans. The Wii user isn't a hardcore user.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/10/interview-silen.html

Marvel_us
10-20-07, 04:42 PM
There are many franchises that will, along with the coming price cut, move a ton of PS3s. Metal Gear, God of War, Final Fantasy, Killzone, what-have-you... None of them are coming this Christmas though, which is when Sony really needs to gain some ground.

As much as I am looking forward to Ratchet and Uncharted I know they're not enough to sell a system. Maybe those combined with Resistance, Heavenly Sword and MotorStorm, and the $400 price, are enough... still, I have my doubts.

Microsoft has made no secret they buy a ton of exclusives for their system... why Sony doesn't follow suit at this point is anyone's guess. Maybe they are, but nothing is close enough to announce yet.

Well think about it. Not all Sony first party teams have shown or even announced games yet. It's not like they are all sleeping.

Q
10-20-07, 05:02 PM
The PS3 is drowning from high prices and no great games. There isn't a system mover out, period. Nothing close. The system has a few good games, but not the first great one. Most of the good ones are ports, at that.

As if that wasn't enough, the system is likely viewed by the general public to just be an expensive 360. At the end of the day, you have a cheaper system with great games compared to a more expensive system with none. It's just common sense.

If I were the CEO of Sony, I'd be literally on my hands and knees begging for third party support. Consoles that have limited third party support KILL gaming companies. The Saturn was hard to program for and its legacy carried on to the Dreamcast. Neither had substantial third party support.

If it wasn't for the Wii and Wii Sports, I'd have bet that Nintendo would be on its death bed by now. (In the home console world, not portable). Look at the N64 and Gamecube. Nintendo couldn't buy decent 3rd party support and the systems suffered as a result. Mario & Co. are the strongest franchises in the gaming industry and they were barely enough to keep the Gamecube floating.

And that concludes my post of things that have been said thousands of times already.

ralinn
10-20-07, 07:08 PM
Because Wii is not for hardcores, they for kiddies. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are for hardcore users like me.



http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/10/interview-silen.html
Rubbish :)

Just because a console isn't made for hardcore gamers, doesn't make it for kids. Nintendo has always been a family console, there are games out for all ages for the Wii and cube.

Lyme
10-20-07, 07:09 PM
Well think about it. Not all Sony first party teams have shown or even announced games yet. It's not like they are all sleeping.

Will they release games in time to make a difference? Time will tell.

AthlonXP1800
10-20-07, 08:51 PM
Rubbish :)

Just because a console isn't made for hardcore gamers, doesn't make it for kids. Nintendo has always been a family console, there are games out for all ages for the Wii and cube.

Yes Nintendo has always been a family console but you missed the point. Buying games are like buying movies, if you buy Death Wish II movie then that are not for family, it for adults over 18. Family can watch movies that carried U, PG or 12A with children.

Many Xbox 360 and PS3 titles like GTAIV and FEAR are for adults over 18, it not fit for family. Wii is design to playing entainment games, not playing violence games. :)

Remember what NES was stand for... Nintendo Entertainment System.

NarcissistZero
10-20-07, 10:48 PM
The PS3 is drowning from high prices and no great games. There isn't a system mover out, period. Nothing close. The system has a few good games, but not the first great one. Most of the good ones are ports, at that.

I think what is a system seller and what isn't is largely decided by hype, PR and other factors though, not really the game itself. Gears of War sold a ton of systems sure, but was that because that game was the most awesome thing ever or because Microsoft made you think it was? Honestly I found Resistance to be a better game, and Resistance is a game people shrug off like it doesn't even matter. The review scores for both were about the same, they both have online multiplayer that is very fun... yet one is a huge system seller and the other something people mock when I mention it.

I'm not saying MS doesn't have more system sellers, they CERTAINLY do, from Halo 3 to BioShock even to PGR, which I think is the best non-sim racing series ever. I'm just saying the PS3 has some impressive software that doesn't get a lot of attention or respect because neither does the PS3 right now.

And what was the system seller for the 360 pre-Gears? Oblivion and GRAW are the only AAA games there and neither strike me as system sellers, though maybe that's because Oblivion is a PC game to me. I remember there were a ton of "where are the games?" and "Xbox 1.5" articles out during the 360's first year just like there have been for the PS3 in its first year, it's just the damn thing sold anyway. I think the 360 sold well for the first year simply because it was the first adult-targeted HD system out this generation.