cvearl
04-14-03, 11:39 AM
This is for nVidia people wondering if they should make the leap to ATI. I had nvidia forever and really thought I would never go back to ATI having tried both an 8500 and a 9000 Pro just prior to getting a G4 last year. I will say, my G4 served me well and I am amazed at how well it still stacks up to the competition! As long as you don't use AA, it is just as fast as a 9500 Pro. All that from a card that is a year old! Impressive indeed.
Anyway, having had a 9700 Pro for several weeks now....
VISUAL QUALITY - My nvidia always looked great as long as I stuck with the 30.82 WHQL drivers. Anyhting since, I felt things were looking a little washed out even in the desktop. That might explain why the newer DET 40's were faster. Is it possible that some concessions were made by nVidia to gain some performance? Perhaps but I no longer care. I stuck with the 30.82's The G4 was gerenally fast. Only real problem was not quite fast enough. Especially when I enabled even just 2xAA. In that mode, I had a really hard time keeping fps above 40 let alone 85!
My summary of the 9700 Pro --- Holy Crap it's fast and beutifull!!! I believe that I have found for me what I consider the sweet spot for this card in terms of the games I have been playing so far.
Keep in mind, I am a littel pickier than some when it comes to FPS and image quality balance. Getting 240 fps in a game is irrelevent to me. My monitor is locked at 85Hz. I use vsync as I HATE tearing in games. With vSync enabled, my primary goal in any game is to maintain 85 fps at all times in 1024x768x32 with a minimum setting of 2xAA. There are alot out there that say "I always play 4xAA and 8xAF no problem". I could to but not at my standard fps requirements in new games. 2xAA is good enough for me. I went back to my G4 and captured some screenies and then captured some on my 9700 Pro. I can honestly say that the 9700 Pro 2xAA looks pretty close to the G4 4xAA. As for AF, I can take it or leave it in newer games. AF makes a really huge difference in RTCW though and I don't feel any performance hit to fps in that game. Everywhere else, I really get hit.
Individual Game Findings. Again going 1024x768x32 and maintaining 85fps all the time...
RETURN TO CASTLE WOLFENSTIEN - This is OPENGL. I have all the "in game" settings maxed to full and in the OpenGL TAB in the ATI drivers, the quality sliders are maxed as well. Also, I set to 4xAA and 8xAF(Quality). Set like this, this game is drop dead gorgeous and never goes below 85fps. I am assuming that all Quake III based engines will run the same. (EDIT - Outdoor maps drop me to 45fps. I turned off AF).
FREELANCER - D3D game I guess. All "in game" detail settings maxed to full settings. ATI driver page set to 2xAA and no AF. It looks awesome and again never goes below 85fps. I can stay at 85fps with 4xAA and 4xAF but then other games don't run as well. So I sacrafice and leave it at 2xAA and no AF.
UT2003 (and likely Unreal II) - D3D games. All "ingame" settings set at normal (which still looks great to me) and 2xAA no AF again. Stays at 85fps even in the Antalus map. If I were to stick with Indoor only maps, I could go to all settings in game set to high. But I like one setting fits all so normal settings with 2xAA it is. I'll have to go ack and play Unreal II again now that I have this card. I only tested it once for a few minutes as I have already completed it on my G4.
WARCRAFT III - Everthing maxed in game. 2xAA and no AF. Always awesome and never falls from 85fps. (EDIT! - LOOKING A SECOND TIME, IT IS CAPPED AT 65fps. This is apparently normal for this game.)
RALLISPORT CHALLENGE - D3D game. Graphics setting defaulted to MEDIUM. ATI set to 2xAA no AF. This one pisses me off a bit. I can go to HIGH detail setting and the DIRT tracks all run at 85fps at all times. I's the ICE tracks that force me to MEDUIM. Oh well, in MEDIUM it is nearly as beutifull and runs silky smooth in ALL tracks and race types. Also I play from behind the car. Not in the car. If playing in the car, I can go to HIGH without an issue for most of the ICE tracks. That is probably because I am no longer rendering my own car from behind which takes alot of juice to do.
C&C GENERALS - This one is wierd. At 2xAA all game details maxed. If I play Skirmish or campains, I get fps equal to the game speed settings. ie; If the game is set to 30 I get 30fps at all times. Yet if I play DIRECT connect with a friend, I am at 85fps at all times with occasional dips to 60 when the game gets really busy. I have talked to many about this and this is just the way it is for everyone in Skirmish mode or Campain.
ADDED April 11 - Another successfull game on R9700 Pro!
GHOST RECON - 1024x768x32 @ 2xAA no AF, Mipmap textures on, everyhting full detail, 24bit Zbuffer setting (32bit is greyed out for some reason), shadows at the middle setting. 85fps at all times and looks great!
Well that's the 7 games I am playing right now. Once I am done them, I will go and try out NOLF2 and Ghost Recon (EDIT - JUST TRIED IT). Have not tried them since my G4. I hope I have a simular experience with them as well. I really wished I had a 2.8Ghz though. Then I know I could go to HIGH in both UT2003 and Rallisport and stay at that magic 85fps mark.
Again... nVidia owners. Don't walk. Run to the store and get a 9700 Pro or 9800 Pro and GET IN THE GAME! Unless you own a G4Ti4600. Then wait a few more months and see where things are going if you are patient enough.
Charles.
Anyway, having had a 9700 Pro for several weeks now....
VISUAL QUALITY - My nvidia always looked great as long as I stuck with the 30.82 WHQL drivers. Anyhting since, I felt things were looking a little washed out even in the desktop. That might explain why the newer DET 40's were faster. Is it possible that some concessions were made by nVidia to gain some performance? Perhaps but I no longer care. I stuck with the 30.82's The G4 was gerenally fast. Only real problem was not quite fast enough. Especially when I enabled even just 2xAA. In that mode, I had a really hard time keeping fps above 40 let alone 85!
My summary of the 9700 Pro --- Holy Crap it's fast and beutifull!!! I believe that I have found for me what I consider the sweet spot for this card in terms of the games I have been playing so far.
Keep in mind, I am a littel pickier than some when it comes to FPS and image quality balance. Getting 240 fps in a game is irrelevent to me. My monitor is locked at 85Hz. I use vsync as I HATE tearing in games. With vSync enabled, my primary goal in any game is to maintain 85 fps at all times in 1024x768x32 with a minimum setting of 2xAA. There are alot out there that say "I always play 4xAA and 8xAF no problem". I could to but not at my standard fps requirements in new games. 2xAA is good enough for me. I went back to my G4 and captured some screenies and then captured some on my 9700 Pro. I can honestly say that the 9700 Pro 2xAA looks pretty close to the G4 4xAA. As for AF, I can take it or leave it in newer games. AF makes a really huge difference in RTCW though and I don't feel any performance hit to fps in that game. Everywhere else, I really get hit.
Individual Game Findings. Again going 1024x768x32 and maintaining 85fps all the time...
RETURN TO CASTLE WOLFENSTIEN - This is OPENGL. I have all the "in game" settings maxed to full and in the OpenGL TAB in the ATI drivers, the quality sliders are maxed as well. Also, I set to 4xAA and 8xAF(Quality). Set like this, this game is drop dead gorgeous and never goes below 85fps. I am assuming that all Quake III based engines will run the same. (EDIT - Outdoor maps drop me to 45fps. I turned off AF).
FREELANCER - D3D game I guess. All "in game" detail settings maxed to full settings. ATI driver page set to 2xAA and no AF. It looks awesome and again never goes below 85fps. I can stay at 85fps with 4xAA and 4xAF but then other games don't run as well. So I sacrafice and leave it at 2xAA and no AF.
UT2003 (and likely Unreal II) - D3D games. All "ingame" settings set at normal (which still looks great to me) and 2xAA no AF again. Stays at 85fps even in the Antalus map. If I were to stick with Indoor only maps, I could go to all settings in game set to high. But I like one setting fits all so normal settings with 2xAA it is. I'll have to go ack and play Unreal II again now that I have this card. I only tested it once for a few minutes as I have already completed it on my G4.
WARCRAFT III - Everthing maxed in game. 2xAA and no AF. Always awesome and never falls from 85fps. (EDIT! - LOOKING A SECOND TIME, IT IS CAPPED AT 65fps. This is apparently normal for this game.)
RALLISPORT CHALLENGE - D3D game. Graphics setting defaulted to MEDIUM. ATI set to 2xAA no AF. This one pisses me off a bit. I can go to HIGH detail setting and the DIRT tracks all run at 85fps at all times. I's the ICE tracks that force me to MEDUIM. Oh well, in MEDIUM it is nearly as beutifull and runs silky smooth in ALL tracks and race types. Also I play from behind the car. Not in the car. If playing in the car, I can go to HIGH without an issue for most of the ICE tracks. That is probably because I am no longer rendering my own car from behind which takes alot of juice to do.
C&C GENERALS - This one is wierd. At 2xAA all game details maxed. If I play Skirmish or campains, I get fps equal to the game speed settings. ie; If the game is set to 30 I get 30fps at all times. Yet if I play DIRECT connect with a friend, I am at 85fps at all times with occasional dips to 60 when the game gets really busy. I have talked to many about this and this is just the way it is for everyone in Skirmish mode or Campain.
ADDED April 11 - Another successfull game on R9700 Pro!
GHOST RECON - 1024x768x32 @ 2xAA no AF, Mipmap textures on, everyhting full detail, 24bit Zbuffer setting (32bit is greyed out for some reason), shadows at the middle setting. 85fps at all times and looks great!
Well that's the 7 games I am playing right now. Once I am done them, I will go and try out NOLF2 and Ghost Recon (EDIT - JUST TRIED IT). Have not tried them since my G4. I hope I have a simular experience with them as well. I really wished I had a 2.8Ghz though. Then I know I could go to HIGH in both UT2003 and Rallisport and stay at that magic 85fps mark.
Again... nVidia owners. Don't walk. Run to the store and get a 9700 Pro or 9800 Pro and GET IN THE GAME! Unless you own a G4Ti4600. Then wait a few more months and see where things are going if you are patient enough.
Charles.