How to fry a Geforce FX 5800!

[ricercar]

Can somebody with a 5800Ultra try this please. Veni, vidi, vici. PNY GeForce FX 5800 Ultra.

EDITed for spelling :rolleyes: Thx Myrmecophagavir

[Dazz]

They could very easily fix this with new drivers, now the drivers tells the card to spin up the fan when a 3D Application starts up right? Now as the video cards detect the temp of the video card they could also power on the fan if it reaches say a certain temp say 80C or something.

[RobHague]

Exactley, but the FUD machine is turning and already im seeing headlines like "FXFlow Flaw" *shakes head*.

[Myrmecophagavir]

Originally posted by ricercar
Vini, vidi, vici.That's veni :rolleyes:

[ricercar]

My former Freshman Composition students would love to have seen my mistake. I must now slay myself with a latin dictionary. Goodbye cruel world.:rolleyes:

To be topical, I noticed that the FX Flow wasn't perfectly logical. Sometimes it was on for 2D apps, and infrequently it was off for 3D apps. When it was off for 3D, it was when shutting down a 3D app with another 3D app in the background, or while that 3D aquarium screensaver was running.

I have uber-confidence in the high-temp shut down based on NDA information, so I never thought to worry. Thus, Veni vidi vici.

[Nv40]

Originally posted by RobHague
Exactley, but the FUD machine is turning and already im seeing headlines like "FXFlow Flaw" *shakes head*.


this is more a "journalist Flaw" than any other thing,
you cannot fry the Geforcefx with a screensaver ,
with games or any aplication.
the Geforcefx ,like many other video cards ,
have a security that at the worst scenerio locks the video card and your windows crash ,if they reach temperatures beyond what its normal temp for their
operation. i think its 140 degrees Celcius ,
in the Geforcefx its limits for normal operation .. ;)

to fry the Geforcefx you will need gasoline or any
other flamable fluid ,because i have heard the silicone
melting point is beyond 1000 degrees :D

i know of burned Geforce4's ,about burned Monitors
,about Burned IDE cables and even about Motherboard
literary in fire..
but that usually happens when you have electrical problems
in your house or when the user do really stupid things.
that normal people will never do.


so its not possible to fry a 100% good video card
by using 3d or 2d software or games.
However it is possible to see DUmb journalists
claiming "how to fry a geforcefx" , using as proof their
WOrking GeforceFx. :rolleyes:

[Rogozhin]

From the ariticle it seemed like the flow didn't check temps but checked whether the application was 2d or 3d, in that case they will have to rma the cards and install a sensor in the core itself, or just use an external. Either way it's a major pain in the azz IF more than a few cards melt their poor little solder contacts.

I guess joesixpack is gonna have to use water (on the computer itself ;)), since hardcore users only comprise %5 of the graphics card market, but i suppose that the number of fx is less than %5 so what the hell, who cares. I guess that is why nvidia never released any hardcore 3d screensavers (I always wondered).

Have to use the dagger sometimes ;)

rogo

[RobHague]

Originally posted by Rogozhin
From the ariticle it seemed like the flow didn't check temps but checked whether the application was 2d or 3d, in that case they will have to rma the cards and install a sensor in the core itself, or just use an external. Either way it's a major pain in the azz IF more than a few cards melt their poor little solder contacts.


What are you talking about? FlowFX isnt controlled through the hardware - its activated by the drivers. The only thing that is on/in/near the core is the temp sensor and the drivers seem to just activate flowfx (i assume via voltage adjustment) whenever a D3D or OGL application is run. The card has a 'slowdown threshold' in which it down clocks if it gets to a certain temperature - at the moment that is set to 140*c and they could easily change that to whatever they want (or allow it user adjustable). Problem could be solved very easily. No big deal unless you like wasting your time watching fancy 3d screensavers all day. ;)


I guess joesixpack is gonna have to use water (on the computer itself ;)), since hardcore users only comprise %5 of the graphics card market, but i suppose that the number of fx is less than %5 so what the hell, who cares. I guess that is why nvidia never released any hardcore 3d screensavers (I always wondered).

Have to use the dagger sometimes ;)

rogo

The FX Ultra will never need to be avilable in HUGE numbers because of the fact that the 'hard-core' enthusiast do make up such a small market %. The only thing they need to worry about is getting enough out there for people that want them to be able to get hold of one.

[marcocom]

Originally posted by RobHague
What are you talking about? FlowFX isnt controlled through the hardware - its activated by the drivers. The only thing that is on/in/near the core is the temp sensor and the drivers seem to just activate flowfx (i assume via voltage adjustment) whenever a D3D or OGL application is run. The card has a 'slowdown threshold' in which it down clocks if it gets to a certain temperature - at the moment that is set to 140*c and they could easily change that to whatever they want (or allow it user adjustable). Problem could be solved very easily. No big deal unless you like wasting your time watching fancy 3d screensavers all day. ;)

i think to change the onboard heat sensor threshold might require a BIOS upgrade and may not be accesable through the HAL on windowsxp. (why firmware upgrades require DOS bootdisks or win98)

but whats sad is how this is all futile. how you and i may own what will in the future be that 'one geforce that needed all that cooling integration' and be kind of outside the unified scope of detenators - since nvidia is chickening out of DDR2 and going back to whats safe and working for ATi.

(as 'risk and pioneering' become synonimous with disaster in the 3D card industry once again and take a ride in the backseat of company priorities for a long long time to come)

hey at least we get to all go back to those cheap 5$ coolers that ATi and nvidia had been slacking off on til nv30!! (sure its not like anyone can use the first PCI slot with an AGP card, but at least that space will be mine again someday to ...do... whatever...!!)

[RobHague]

It's possible that it needs a BIOS upgrade i guess, but i would think that the threshold slowdown is just the card flicking back to 2d mode speeds - which the driver could do simply. Also didnt the original site say that NVIDIA were going to look into doing something with the drivers anyway 'just incase' this problem is more than just a one off. :)

[marcocom]

ya its just that they make these heat sensors, in some implimentations, so low-level so that theres like no possible chance that any possible OS or software or driver crash or screwup might possibly over-ride or crash that safety-valve. so they just use the most crude and simple method to set that threshold monitor (im just assuming, like with the Intel cpu) and its often hard-soldered. like maybe even the BIOS cant change certain characteristics.

i dont know for sure, but i do know that heat-sensors can often be implimented in that fashion and be unscale-able.

i certainly hope not tho :)

course i dont even use 3D screensavers because of how they munch ram resources and are often not good about cleaning it up when they snap back to the desktop. the MS ones are good , but old and ugly anyway.

i still use the original matrix screensaver that supported multimonitors and is written in simple 2D DOS, takes less than 128k memory, and when it covers all my monitors and i wear sunglasses even though its dark and wear a leather trenchcoat even though its warm out...i fell like im actually a real matrix actor...with make-up, wiring, and CG that makes me look faster and even taller :)

[Rogozhin]

From the ariticle it seemed like the flow didn't check temps but checked whether the application was 2d or 3d


Rob, that is what this statement meant. That it used software to determine the cooling or lack thereof.

Marco

What the hell did you just write?

rogo

[BladeRunner]

Originally posted by mongoled
Can somebody with a 5800Ultra try this please. It would be good to see other peeps real life experiences with this 'issue', which if true is very serious.

Thanxs.

The FX 5800 Ultra I have here atm does this when running the aquarium D3D screensaver.

It runs when the screensaver starts and stops a min or so later, but the screensaver is still running.

Temp keeps rising, (fast as I have no system fans), until I intervene with a large desk fan directed at the card & exit the screen saver. Judging by my findings so far 5800 Ultras get far too hot, (this is the fourth one I've tried and they all get equally hot). They definitely get too hot even in 2d at lower clocks for the fan to not run at all, but most of the heat problem is not the frontside, but on the backside, (top in a tower), that has the large copper plated alu ram sink.

I'm also pretty convinced the 140C setting is a top end limit to the display, not a temp the card could reach without damage. (like the sliders for overclocking that often show far higher clocks speeds than you can ever hope to reach or even set). Considering water boils at 100C, if I had a water-block on the card and it got to 140c the water in the block would have turned to steam long before. I can't see anyway it could or should be set for 140C as a safe limit, it is just another unfinished part of the drivers.

Those with an FX Ultra, If you right click just after where it says 140C you get a "what's this" box, now click the box and it explains what the up & down temp setting arrows do to change the alarm settings / overheat protection. Shame these arrows don't actually exist.

http://www.zerofanzone.co.uk/pictures/gif/fx_temp1.gif

http://www.zerofanzone.co.uk/pictures/gif/fx_temp2.gif

[budd_wm]

I have a friend that was getting a Geforce FX 5800 Ultra, but ever since he read this thread he decided to wait for the NV35. Let's hope nVidia can make amends...