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DiscipleDOC
12-29-07, 03:19 PM
In the next few weeks, I will probably be in the market for a new board and definitely in the next week or so, I will be in the market to get a new vid card.

I was all set to get two hd3870's, but then I read this (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1499716&postcount=11) post:
Doc I would not waste my money going crossfire with your current board. Your second PCI-E slot also only runs at 4X bandwidth instead of 16X.

You would be wasting $$$ on a second card because it would be so heavily bottlnecked by your board. You need at least 8X speed on the second lane to get anywhere near the full benefits of crossfire.


An X38 board would be the best choice for going crossfire as both lanes run at full 16X speed.

So now, I'm a bit confused on what to do. I was going to get two ATI cards, and run them in Crossfire, but I won't be able to do that with this current board.

If that be the case, do you think I should stick with intel, and just get a x38? Or should I go with nVidia and get a 780i?

A little sidenote: I was not too please with the chipset temps of the 680 (Striker Extreme). If the 780i will run that hot, then I will stick with Intel(x38)

What are your thoughts?

LORD-eX-Bu
12-29-07, 03:26 PM
intel ftw!

dxx
12-29-07, 03:32 PM
I think it's all theory over logic.

Saying that PCI-E 4X will bottleneck the card is pointless. It's a theory based on marketing numbers. Nevermind how crossfire might in theory be crippled - in real-world benchmarks, how does it perform?

Regarding X38 and 780i, I'd say neither. Go with the P35. SLI's nice, but it's not worth the extra $60 of mobo cost, and it doesn't work with multiple monitors, which is rather weak. The x38 is a nice enough board, but DDR3 is a waste of time. It doesn't perform any faster than DDR2, but costs ten times as much. P35 is cheaper, and consider it faster too, since the money you save on DDR3 can be spent on a better single GPU instead.

walterman
12-29-07, 03:39 PM
If you can wait, get the mobo only, i think that in a couple of months, there will be more gfx cards to choose. GX2's or X2's. You've a good gfx card atm.

About the mobo, if you need SLI, go 780i, if not, it's clear, go X38.

DiscipleDOC
12-29-07, 03:41 PM
If you can wait, get the mobo only, i think that in a couple of months, there will be more gfx cards to choose. GX2's or X2's. You've a good gfx card atm.

About the mobo, if you need SLI, go 780i, if not, it's clear, go X38.
The grfx card is sold. I will have to get another card soon.

Feyy
12-29-07, 03:47 PM
If you want to run crossfire with two 3870's go with X38, because then you also have the stability that is Intel chipsets :D

Tuningmaster
12-29-07, 03:58 PM
Saying that PCI-E 4X will bottleneck the card is pointless. It's a theory based on marketing numbers. Nevermind how crossfire might in theory be crippled - in real-world benchmarks, how does it perform?


Go look up some benchies for yourself. The 4X lane is a huge bottleneck in gaming by comparison to an 8X or 16X lane with a high end GPU. 3870's or 8800 series would be bandwidth starved at just 4X PCI-E. LOL.

soulie
12-29-07, 04:43 PM
I would go x38 it has proven itself to be a stable nice overclocker and working fine with crossfire. 780 on other hand , 680 + tweaking = 780 ???? I have my doubts jumping on that wagon.

If only we could test AMD beautifull 790x with decend processors cryyyyy

dxx
12-29-07, 06:30 PM
Go look up some benchies for yourself. The 4X lane is a huge bottleneck in gaming by comparison to an 8X or 16X lane with a high end GPU. 3870's or 8800 series would be bandwidth starved at just 4X PCI-E. LOL.

Opinion, not numbers. One is useful, the other is not. Can you guess which?

ZEROCOOL101
12-29-07, 06:38 PM
DFI X38 FTW :) its running great for me :)

Tuningmaster
12-29-07, 08:12 PM
Opinion, not numbers. One is useful, the other is not. Can you guess which?


Its not an Opinion but instead is a rather well known fact that a 4X PCI-E bus lane will bottleneck the crap out of any modern day high end GPU. Particularly a 3870, 2900, or 8800 Series GPU.

Like I said, go look up some crossfire gaming charts and see for yourself.

LORD-eX-Bu
12-29-07, 08:15 PM
Rob? :wonder:

Revs
12-30-07, 06:17 AM
All the 780i reviews i've read don't have a bad word for it. Q6600 G0 at 3.6, no probs. Nice and stable with lowish volts. You'll be able to get a GT with the prospect of SLI if you ever decide to go for it, too.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nforce_780i_sli_review/482/

Tuningmaster
12-30-07, 07:36 AM
All the 780i reviews i've read don't have a bad word for it. Q6600 G0 at 3.6, no probs. Nice and stable with lowish volts. You'll be able to get a GT with the prospect of SLI if you ever decide to go for it, too.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nforce_780i_sli_review/482/


Yeah well they also talk like the 680I is a board of perfection as well :rolleyes:

the minute I returned with the 680i mainboard we started using it, and for a complete year this mainboard became our primary platform to test enthusiast products like graphics cards, memory and processors on. To date pretty much all our graphics card reviews and all our Core 2 Duo/Quad reviews have been done on that platform, again... on a year old mainboard. That's how good nForce 680i really is.

Tym
12-30-07, 07:52 AM
I really think the only valid reason to get a 680/780 board is if you want to run two nVidia cards in SLI. Well, in my case, this reason wasn't even good enough to put up with the issues I experienced. I went through two bad eVGA 680i boards, got an expensive RAM kit burned in the process, and finally settled for a 965P.

Yes, I had to sacrifice the ability to run SLI, but a single 8800GTX can run anything I play maxed out (no Crysis, though). SLI was a pain anyway, because I use dual monitors. I had no issues whatsoever with the board: great performance, faster RAID... Then I switched to X38 and it's also been smooth sailing ever since. I chose the DDR2 version, as I thouhgt there was no point in going DDR3 at the moment (too expensive with marginal performance gains, if any). However, it really depends on your upgrade cycle, and if you want to keep the board for a longer time, then DDR3 may be a good idea.

grey_1
12-30-07, 08:03 AM
Doc, here's a good read that pretty well backs up Tuningmaster's statements.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/10/12/crossfire_comparison_intel_x38_versus_p35/1

Finally our MSI P35 Diamond (P35) board has an unbalanced x16 and x4 combination, which not only means there's an obvious bottleneck in the x4 bandwidth, but the data has to go into the southbridge and share the northbridge-southbridge DMI before meeting with the other card's data. Its latency is far greater making it the most inefficient solution, and because of this, even MSI doesn't advertise CrossFire as being a feature on its P35 Diamond. We're using it here simply because it can do it and it's also DDR3 capable so we can keep the systems as even as possible.

fasedww
12-30-07, 09:08 AM
DFI X38 FTW :) its running great for me :)
can you go higher then 4.0 ghz on water?, what is your water setup like?:)

mullet
12-30-07, 01:18 PM
Doc, your in a tuff spot kinda. I would wait for the next Nvidia 1 monster card solution and keep your current board. I am also thinking of CF but the 3870 CF and the moment doesn't make me go wow. The only thing that is peaking my interest is the up coming 3870x2 for my X38 board. Now if the 3870x2 works out really good then I would go X38 and get another 3870x2.

DiscipleDOC
12-30-07, 02:52 PM
Here's what I think I'm gonna do:

I'm going to buy a cheap card (probably a g92 or a 3870--don't know which yet), and then when the nine series for nVidia or the 3870x2 come out, I will get that card. I will probably get a x38 between now and then as well.

Tuningmaster
12-30-07, 03:23 PM
Here's what I think I'm gonna do:

I'm going to buy a cheap card (probably a g92 or a 3870--don't know which yet), and then when the nine series for nVidia or the 3870x2 come out, I will get that card. I will probably get a x38 between now and then as well.


I might go X38 myself if the 3870X2's do really well. Of course I will not make a move until I know for sure what Nvidia is also gonna do.

Fathertime36
12-30-07, 03:57 PM
At first I also thought the 680i is an awesome chipset. It does look good on paper but after a few months, 2 dead memory kits and 4 different boards I changed my opinion.
Lol the life of a enthusiast eh?...........cherry pick hardware after doing xxxhours of research and despite no matter how much we try to proof our hardware crap always comes up somewhere down the road eventually.

Fathertime36
12-30-07, 04:01 PM
Something that really confuses me, it had been @2-3years since there have been mobo released that had 16x/16x pcie capability, not sure but I assume nvidia only? why the 16x/4x configs? you would think by now all dual slot pcie boards would ALL be 16/16(32)

namuk
12-30-07, 09:12 PM
nvidia should just stick to graphics cards simple not hot as sun motherboards (that overvolt and kill) not nvidia raid not armorall firewall not nvidia networking not nvidia ide drivers etc etc etc.

intel boards are futrue (had nvidia motherboards since day one) intel are more stable with a beta bios and they should give the sli to intel also (i here it is going to x48)

LORD-eX-Bu
12-30-07, 09:15 PM
it is not going to X48 just skulltrail.

namuk
12-30-07, 09:19 PM
it is not going to X48 just skulltrail.


if you mean sli then nothing missed.

thats another nvidia thing sli drivers for the g80 upwards in vista.