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EciDemon
01-26-08, 01:45 PM
Was wondering if someone here could help me shed some light on this.
Im going to place an order on an upgrade kit for me puter (cpu,mobo and ram)
And my problem is I cant judge if I should go with Amd based or Intel.
My last Intel cpu was a Pentium 120mhz, Ive been comfortable with Amd for all these years and figured Id go with one of those again. But I see all those sigs you guys have here usually are Intel based...

I found one pack as follows:
AMD Athlon64 X2 Dual-Core 6000+ 3.0GHz, Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DS5 AMD790FX, 2048MB DDR2 800MHz. That seems good.

They also sell the same pack with 4gb ram for the same price as the intel pack with just 2gb as follows:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 iP35, 2048MB DDR2 800MHz

So for arguments sake, if I compare both packs with 2gb, would they be about the same speed wize ?

Ill also be changing my now really old nvidia6800agp for I think one of those 8800gt 512mb pci-e (current hardware is amd64 3500+ single core with an old gigabyte mobo, nvidia 250 based chipset I think.. 2gb ram 400mhz in dual channel mode)

If the intel based pack is the better option I could always add another 2gb ram next month to it.

I really appreciate any help at all with this..

Riptide
01-26-08, 01:55 PM
The Intel will be faster clock for clock. If the price is similar I'd go with it.

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 01:56 PM
Definitely go with the intel pack.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 02:34 PM
Thanks guys for the swift replies! :)

intel it is, man I cant wait!

Drolfrawd
01-26-08, 02:35 PM
Was wondering if someone here could help me shed some light on this.
Im going to place an order on an upgrade kit for me puter (cpu,mobo and ram)
And my problem is I cant judge if I should go with Amd based or Intel.
My last Intel cpu was a Pentium 120mhz, Ive been comfortable with Amd for all these years and figured Id go with one of those again. But I see all those sigs you guys have here usually are Intel based...

I found one pack as follows:
AMD Athlon64 X2 Dual-Core 6000+ 3.0GHz, Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DS5 AMD790FX, 2048MB DDR2 800MHz. That seems good.

They also sell the same pack with 4gb ram for the same price as the intel pack with just 2gb as follows:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 iP35, 2048MB DDR2 800MHz

So for arguments sake, if I compare both packs with 2gb, would they be about the same speed wize ?

Ill also be changing my now really old nvidia6800agp for I think one of those 8800gt 512mb pci-e (current hardware is amd64 3500+ single core with an old gigabyte mobo, nvidia 250 based chipset I think.. 2gb ram 400mhz in dual channel mode)

If the intel based pack is the better option I could always add another 2gb ram next month to it.

I really appreciate any help at all with this..

Make no mistake that Intel chips are good very good, but so are AMD, if you want value for money , buy AMD.
There used to be an analogy, think of a garden strimmer and how high the revs are , but the engine is very small. then think of a big diesel engine ,low reving but powerfull. It is not a great comparison , but gives an idea of how i used to think between the differences in Intel and AMD chips.

Personally I would buy AMD and shell out extra for really decent memory.

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 03:12 PM
Make no mistake that Intel chips are good very good, but so are AMD, if you want value for money , buy AMD.
There used to be an analogy, think of a garden strimmer and how high the revs are , but the engine is very small. then think of a big diesel engine ,low reving but powerfull. It is not a great comparison , but gives an idea of how i used to think between the differences in Intel and AMD chips.

Personally I would buy AMD and shell out extra for really decent memory.
:wtf:

Why on earth would you spend more on memory over the CPU? It does absolutely nothing at all.

The E6850 is significantly more powerful than the 6000+, not to mention it will overclock extremely well, even with cheap memory.

If the AMD pack is significantly cheaper and you're on a budget, then yeah it'd be a fine system. Otherwise, Intel all the way.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 04:26 PM
Well the bundled ram in the Amd pack Ive never heard of (a-data) they are cheap, if I was to buy the ram outside the package.

I looked around some more, and tried to put together a simalar spec system Amd based, and ended up with 6400+ (dual core), 2gb kingston sli sertified ram (dunno if that's just a marketing ploy..) simalar mobo and ended up with a cheaper upgrade. But it was more limited in fsb space so it wont last as long if I was to upgrade cpu/ram in the future.. but that is not really a problem anyawys. I always go with new mobo/cpu/ram and pass the old stuff to my younger brother, and in return he always helps me pay a bit on my upgrade :)
I am on a budget, i need to get a decent GFX card as my current one is AGP so I cant use it anymore. I would like to get a new PSU so I can pass mine along to bro (his is only 350w i belive, mine is 500w, and I know for a fact that my PSU works good with my current hardware)
GFX card is going to be 8800gt 512mb, but ive not decided on what brand yet, I like those with stock design, is Albatron reliable ? (Gigabyte had some fancy coolers but they looked odd hehe)

So, cheaper mobo, not so future proof (nForce 570 chipset), Kingston ram - as i "trust" them more, and a slight faster Amd cpu compared to the upgrade kit.

Damn it, hehe I tried to take the easy way out, but dang it's so much more fun to hand pick :D

EDIT: gonna see what I can come up with if I handpick an Intel based system with simalar specs, some OC room is always nice...

EciDemon
01-26-08, 04:34 PM
CaptNKILL>>
Looking at your sig, and the intel cpu, man thats an impressive OC. Isnt the stock speed 2.66ghz on those ?

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 04:57 PM
CaptNKILL>>
Looking at your sig, and the intel cpu, man thats an impressive OC. Isnt the stock speed 2.66ghz on those ?
Yeah. That really isn't an uncommon overclock with a Core 2. Its pretty easy to do with a decent cooler.

If I were you, I'd get an E6750, a good cheap gigabyte P35 board and 2 or 4 gigs of DDR2-800 and do a little overclocking. You won't get a huge overclock with that memory but you also won't need an expensive cooler (the one I have would cost about $75 with this fan). I'd say 3.2Ghz isn't out of reach and it'd be significantly faster than any Athlon systems (the E6750 at 2.66Ghz is already a little faster than the 6000+ in most cases... at 3.2 it'd just dominate).

EciDemon
01-26-08, 05:04 PM
Sweet!, I will keep that in mind, as I can go for a tad bit lesser intel cpu and save some bux there, Either way, stock cooler will go buh bye next month.
But will those pc-6400 ddr2 be enugh if I was to OC a bit ?. I wont go as overkill as you but it would be nice to hit around 3ghz or so.

EDIT: Would this be the MOBO your using ?
https://www.datorbutiken.com/se/Navigation/Details.aspx?Product=GIGP35-DS3

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 05:10 PM
Sweet!, I will keep that in mind, as I can go for a tad bit lesser intel cpu and save some bux there, Either way, stock cooler will go buh bye next month.
But will those pc-6400 ddr2 be enugh if I was to OC a bit ?. I wont go as overkill as you but it would be nice to hit around 3ghz or so.
Yeah PC2-6400 would get you to 3.2Ghz without overclocking the ram. Which means, any brand will do. Don't be too concerned with timings or "overclocking" memory. Just get whatever looks decent. A-Data isn't top of the line but it also isn't bottom of the barrel. As long as it has a brand name and has a warranty you should be fine. My Wintec AMPX memory was dirt cheap, works great and is less picky about voltages than the OCZ memory I sold.

If you do have a little more cash to spare, an E8400 Wolfdale is a hell of a buy right now and should overclock to insane levels rather easily. It is 3Ghz stock and has 6Mb of cache. Its about $50 more than the E6750 in most places, and $50 cheaper than the E6850 (which is older and has less cache :p).

Any of these CPUs will be excellent though. Its just a matter of cost.

EDIT: That motherboard is very similar. There are a lot of different versions (DS3R, DS3L etc...) but the differences are mostly just in the number of extras like SATA and USB ports.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 05:34 PM
Thanks :)
That mobo i linked looked good enugh, and didnt cost an arm and a leg. no sli tho as it was on the Amd system. Also thanks for the tip on the ram there with timings, I was just thinking of that, remembering an "what really happens when you OC and the theory behind it" guide, where they pointed out why timings is important for oc. Glad to be relived of that hehe.

With same CPU as you, i land on my initial cost estimate, before i began to look into things in detail, (5535sek or 844usd, gfx card included), its about 75usd more then the hand picked Amd system. So i prolly have to pass on the
E8400 Wolfdale (Shame tho, Very nice alternative)

However, I think i could shave some of the mobo price, I see both A-Bit and Asus mobos that costs less. Extras on the mobo I only need Lan and a few USB ports. Ill cary over my X-Fi

I must say, your a ton of help here, I feel a bit blind in the intel world lol.

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 07:41 PM
With the mobo, as long as its a P35 chipset it should be fine. I know the gigabyte boards are damned good, but lots of people use Abit and Asus. Any of those should be fine.

Good luck with your build. :)

mullet
01-26-08, 07:52 PM
Ultra low end internet/email/pictures/watching movies machine = AMD
Mid to high end Gaming/anything else you can think of = Intel

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 08:02 PM
Ultra low end internet/email/pictures/watching movies machine = AMD
Mid to high end Gaming/anything else you can think of = Intel
Absolutely.

I've chosen AMD for every low end machine I've built or configured for quite a while. They are still the best price\performance for the low end and a "low end" X2 4000+ is more than most non-gamers will need for several years.

I just put together a system for a guy and I bought a gigabyte nforce 6100 board, X2 4000+ (retail), 2 gigs of DDR2 and a Samsung DVD Burner with lightscribe for $170. That is more than he will need for a very long time and it was dirt cheap.

For a gamer, I can't recommend anything but Intel. This core 2 was such a HUGE performance boost for me (going from an X2 at 2.5Ghz) in a lot of CPU heavy situations that I have to recommend them.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 08:09 PM
Is it really that much difference ?
Man, amd used to be king.

Been looking around now for a while so i get best bang for buck with the intel. I wasnt too sure about what chipset is good or not, but I figured since you use P35 based, I should too :)

Now maybe I can pick up Crycis and see what all the fuzz is about :D

EDIT: Oh yeah, Thanks again for all the help :)
One word; Respect!

LORD-eX-Bu
01-26-08, 08:18 PM
+1 for intel.

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 08:20 PM
Is it really that much difference ?
Man, amd used to be king.

Been looking around now for a while so i get best bang for buck with the intel. I wasnt too sure about what chipset is good or not, but I figured since you use P35 based, I should too :)

Now maybe I can pick up Crycis and see what all the fuzz is about :D

EDIT: Oh yeah, Thanks again for all the help :)
One word; Respect!

Yeah I don't really know what it is about these Intel chips. Benchmarks show pretty nice gains over Athlons in most cases, but I really noticed much smoother overall frame rates in a lot of games. I don't mean like 20% higher fps, I mean the frame rates used to drop to the 20s in some places and now they are pegged at 70fps or higher. I barely got any performance increase when overclocking my X2 from 2.2 to 2.5, but going to the Core2 at stock 2.66 was like night and day difference... at 3.6 its even better. :p

You won't regret getting that setup man. :thumbsup:

K007
01-26-08, 08:35 PM
Why not gun for the E8500? I myself am planning to do an upgrade soon, i am still waiting to see how the new GPUs that come out from both sides will work out, but i do plan to go for the E8500 and this will be my first intel cpu in a loooong time -.-. For the moment i am a bit confused on the RAM choices and motherboard and how much of ram to go with..fingers cross on Vista SP1..if it pans out good, i might go single gpu/4gb / vista/e8500, and probably decide between the Asus/Gigabyte for mobo, asus seems usually expensive and gigabyte mobos are really good when it comes to value.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 09:03 PM
I think ive reached my cash limit now tho,. I _might_ be able to get the E8400 cpu as it differs so little in price. I just found another mobo on one of the two online sites that has all the components I need at good prices, so I only get shipping from one place.
There are cheaper Ram to be had too, but they dont look as good, and they have worse timings, dunno if it's wize to go any lower then ive already have there, all though they are kingston brand.

Either way I can then add some specs to the "fish tank" :) no more reason to be ashamed of the puter ;)

EDIT: CaptNKILL>> Thats good info mate, I dont think ive had any stuttering, but then again my current system is weak so I dont play much on it anymore, and I cant OC as it locksup after even the smallest steps.. Now there should be some room for better OC in the future should I swap out the ram for better stuff.
Customer reviews on the cpu and mobo are very good. People seem very happy with them, gfx card too :)
Man am I going to play Lost Planet again or what! oh and The Witcher that's been sitting in its box just waiting for me to upgrade

CaptNKILL
01-26-08, 09:09 PM
I think ive reached my cash limit now tho,. I _might_ be able to get the E8400 cpu as it differs so little in price. I just found another mobo on one of the two online sites that has all the components I need at good prices, so I only get shipping from one place.
There are cheaper Ram to be had too, but they dont look as good, and they have worse timings, dunno if it's wize to go any lower then ive already have there, all though they are kingston brand.

Either way I can then add some specs to the "fish tank" :) no more reason to be ashamed of the puter ;)
As long as its PC2-6400 or better, Kingston should be fine. They are a good reliable brand and have been for many years. :)

EciDemon
01-26-08, 09:16 PM
As long as its PC2-6400 or better, Kingston should be fine. They are a good reliable brand and have been for many years. :)

Two of my current 512mb sticks are Kingston, they work good I think, however one of them was DOA when I got it. The other two sticks are no-names, so with the four of them, I cant set the bios on "top performance". When I dont mix them I can.

Rather confusing with all those ram's out there, ever heard the name TwinMOS ?
The two sites im looking at dont have the exact same stock/prices, so at one of them, they dont have those Kingston Value rams at the price im looking for, but they have twinmos and im sure they have simalar specs ..

K007
01-26-08, 09:35 PM
If you can shell out the cash for the E8xxx series chips, you might as well go for them imo. Doesn't feel right spending just about the same cash for a older model when the new models are out for a little bit more cash ><..well at least for me..

Its like buying a 8800GTX or Ultra right now..when you know in a month or two..things are gonna change alot and you could be kicking your self for it.

In Australia i am looking atm right now the difference in price for 6850/8500 is around 50-70AUD...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-wolfdale_5.html#sect0
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/intel-wolfdale/pcons-2.png

Daym...lol @ the AMD -.-

I am defiantly gonna grab that E8500 for sure.

Lenin
01-26-08, 09:53 PM
Why not get the q6600? More future proof, and overclocks very easily (due to 266 fsb with 9x multi by default).

Its like buying a 8800GTX or Ultra right now..when you know in a month or two..things are gonna change alot and you could be kicking your self for it.
You're quite wrong there. the gtx is still a good buy right now (at least for 1680x1050+), as there's no real competition for it until the new chips come out (summer at the earliest).
The gx2 is delayed already, and it's only two gt chips on one card, nothing new at all. It won't be that much faster than ultra in the first place, and the speed advantages will only appear in games with good sli support. In other games, it won't be much better than an ordinary gt.

EciDemon
01-26-08, 09:55 PM
Ooh, some benchmarks, Some very good pointers on that page.
I know what your saying, and your completly right. Wolfdale is nice, and I should be able to get one of those instead now after searching around for best bang for buck, they are out of stock tho in both online stores >_< (as well as all the other major ones here in sweden) so ill have to wait a few weeks.