8800GTX and 3870x2 - Shootout at the OK Corral

[cvearl]

These 2 cards are the same price for the most part. As for the GTS (G92), it is NOT as fast as the GTX by most accounts when running 1680x1050 and above with AA and AF just to clear that up.

These 2 behemoths face off at the $450 price point in most all of the recent reviews. Here's a summary....

3870x2 wins in
COD4
DiRT
Quakewars
HL2:EP2
Oblivion
The Witcher
COH
Call of Juarez
STALKER
Quake 4
Splinter Cell:CT
FEAR
Prey
X3 Reunion.

3870x2 and GTX tie in
Crysis is a give or take depending on settings
Lost Planet DX10 with AA (according to 2 sites)
Unreal Tournament 3
Gears of War

3870x2 loses , but still plays well in...
Tiger Woods
Blazing Angels 2
Lost PLanet 1280x1024
WiC DX10 with AA
Quake Wars by a little at 2 sites
Supcom
Bioshock in DX10 mode according to Firing squad but they use 2 different motherboards to test with.

At the time of this writing, 3870x2 is the superior product at the same price. No the GTX is not less of a card. It will go down as one of those legendary cards just the same as the ATI 9700Pro did. It deserves respect being over a year old. that said. The 3870x2 is a DAMN interresting, unique and fun looking product for people looking to step up from anything less than a GTX.

Clearly BEATS the 8800GTX - **EDIT** - Clearly meaning picked mostly if not completely unanamousely as the victor in a given game by reviewers. Not by % as it might have come across.

Caveat - Yes. If you have a GTX. This does not make sense as an upgrade. Wait for the G100 or whatever or ATI's next product whatever that might be.

COD4 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAF (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 84fps
8800GTX - 58fps

COD4 1920x1200 4xAA (Legit Reviews) - VISTA
3870x2 - 49fps
8800GTX - 42fps

DiRT 1920x1200 2xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 39fps
8800GTX - 31fps

Quake Wars 1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 51fps
8800GTX - 26fps

Quake Wars 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Hothardware) - VISTA
3870x2 - 77fps
8800GTX - 69fps

Quake Wars 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 89fps
8800GTX - 75fps

HL2:EP2 1920x1200 2xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 99fps
8800GTX - 92fps

HL2:EP2 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAF (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 145fps
8800GTX - 114fps

HL2:EP2 1600x1200 8xAA 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 108fps
8800GTX - 94fps

HL2:EP2 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Hothardware) - VISTA
3870x2 - 119fps
8800GTX - 100fps

Oblivion 1920x1200 0xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 95fps
8800GTX - 65fps

Oblivion 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality Mode (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 58fps
8800GTX - 41fps

Bioshock 1680x1050 0xAA 16xAF (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 72fps
8800GTX - 67fps

Unreal Tournament 3 1680x1050 Highest Quality 0xAA (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 141fps
8800GTX - 98fps

The Witcher 1680x1050 Highest Quality 0xAA (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 47fps
8800GTX - 33fps

COH 1600x1200 4xAA (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 139fps
8800GTX - 107fps

COH 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 199fps
8800GTX - 179fps

World in Conflict "DX9" 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 45fps
8800GTX - 40fps

Call of Juarez 1600x1200 4xMSAA (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 40fps
8800GTX - 21fps

Crysis DX10 All HIGH 1600x1200 2xAA (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 26fps
8800GTX - 21fps

STALKER 1600x1200 MAXED FDL mode (Legit Reviews) - VISTA
3870x2 - 138fps
8800GTX - 116fps

STALKER 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 159fps
8800GTX - 143fps

Quake4 1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality (Hexus) - VISTA
3870x2 - 167fps
8800GTX - 92fps

Quake 4 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 77fps
8800GTX - 67fps

Splinter Cell:CT 1920x1200 4xAA 8xAF (Hexus) - VISTA
3870x2 - 131fps
8800GTX - 103fps

Splinter Cell:CT 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 139fps
8800GTX - 82fps

FEAR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF Maximum Quality (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 117fps
8800GTX - 88fps

FEAR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF Maximum Quality (Firingsquad) - VISTA
3870x2 - 110fps
8800GTX - 92fps

Prey 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 131fps
8800GTX - 100fps

X3 Reunion 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 89fps
8800GTX - 73fps



Ties with the 8800GTX

Crysis 1680x1050 High Quality mode 0xAA 16xAF (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 31fps
8800GTX - 28fps

Crysis 1600x1200 DX10 HIGH QUALITY 0xAA (Hothardware) - VISTA
3870x2 - 31fps
8800GTX - 30fps

Gears of War 1680x1050 DX10AA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 51fps
8800GTX - 53fps

Prey 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 106fps
8800GTX - 105fps

Lost Planet "DX10" 1600x1200 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 28fps
8800GTX - 30fps

Lost Planet 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF DX10 (Firingsquad) - VISTA
3870x2 - 26fps
8800GTX - 27fps

Farcry 1920x1200 4xAA 8xAF Highest Quality (Hexus) - VISTA
3870x2 - 110fps
8800GTX - 111fps

Unreal Tournament 3 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 118fps
8800GTX - 118fps


3870x2 Loses by a bit to 8800GTX

Tiger Woods 1680x1050 0xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 75fps
8800GTX - 86fps

Lost Planet 1280x960 2xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 42fps
8800GTX - 52fps

Lost Planet 1280x1024 8xAA 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 34fps
8800GTX - 42fps

World in Conflict "DX10" 1280x768 2xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 40fps
8800GTX - 48fps

World in Conflict "DX10" 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Hardware Canucks) - VISTA
3870x2 - 24fps
8800GTX - 31fps

Blazing Angels 2 1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF (DH) - VISTA
3870x2 - 35fps
8800GTX - 45fps

Quake Wars 1680x1050 0xAA 16xAF Highest Qaulity Mode (Anand) - VISTA
3870x2 - 95fps
8800GTX - 103fps

Quake Wars 1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality (Hexus) - VISTA
3870x2 - 48fps
8800GTX - 54fps

Crysis 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF ALL HIGH (Tech Powerup) - XP Likely not using hotfix patch?
3870x2 - 25fps
8800GTX - 35fps

Crysis 1600x1200 2xAA 0xAF High (Firingsquad) - VISTA
3870x2 - 19fps
8800GTX - 24fps

Farcry 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF Ultra Quality (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 152fps
8800GTX - 190fps

SupCom 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF (Tech Powerup) - XP
3870x2 - 17fps BROKEN! - 3870 gets 35fps
8800GTX - 45fps

BIOSHOCK 1600x1200 0xAA 0xAF DX10 (Firingsquad) - VISTA
3870x2 - 85fps
8800GTX - 79fps

[Amuro]

It's two GPUs vs 1 GPU, so of course it's gonna beat the GTX. The X2 perform exactly like two 3870 in crossfire mode.

EDIT
The 3780 X2 seems to have much lower min FPS, which worries me.

[cvearl]

It's two GPUs vs 1 GPU, so of course it's gonna beat the GTX. The X2 perform exactly like two 3870 in crossfire mode.

EDIT
The 3780 X2 seems to have much lower min FPS, which worries me.

Not all the time. Perhaps someone can do a compilation on that. But it was explained that in games like GOW where textures are occasionally streamed to the framebuffer it will have a split second pause. As DH said, it's not a points in the game where you would actually care.

No one has come forward and said "it's stuttering". So average framerate is actually more important.

I mean really. 1 hard drive access can drop min framerate too.

C.

[Butter Bandit]

It's two GPUs vs 1 GPU, so of course it's gonna beat the GTX. The X2 perform exactly like two 3870 in crossfire mode.

That isn't what is important. What is important is that it is two 3870 GPUs beating the GTX at the same price point.

3870x2 is basically the card to get right now.

[Amuro]

That isn't what is important. What is important is that it is two 3870 GPUs beating the GTX at the same price point.

3870x2 is basically the card to get right now.
GTX's been around for well over a year, people that want a 8800 series card are likely to either get the GT or GTS 512. ATI is a little too late.

[MUYA]

A single card solution is preferable only in my preference to a potential problem with dual cards be it SLI or CF.

Still the 3870 X2 looks good :)

[Amuro]

Not all the time. Perhaps someone can do a compilation on that. But it was explained that in games like GOW where textures are occasionally streamed to the framebuffer it will have a split second pause. As DH said, it's not a points in the game where you would actually care.

No one has come forward and said "it's stuttering". So average framerate is actually more important.

I mean really. 1 hard drive access can drop min framerate too.

C.
it's pretty much all the time in pretty much every game except Obvilion according to this review in your reivew thread:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_radeon_hd_3870_x2_performance/page4.asp

[malachi1313]

What nobody has brought up is that ATI cards STILL have broken shadows in at least 3 popular games(well quite a few people still play them) and that is BF2.BF2142 and Company of Heroes(and expansion). Game compatability goes to the GTX....

[AthlonXP1800]

It pity that all reviewers benchmarked games at 2xAA, 4xAA and 8xAA but never 16xAA.

Many people want to see how it compare with 16xAA and 16xAF.

[mtl]

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
AMD has delivered an impressive piece of technology; the ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2. While it has some trouble catching up to the performance of the GeForce 8800 GTX, it produces a satisfying gameplay experience. The fact is that unless you are running a 30” monitor the HD 3870 X2 is likely going to “outrun” your display anyway. With the promise of updated drivers it has potential for an improved gameplay experience, and we think that will come. The 3870 X2 is a good value at $449, but the GeForce 8800 GTX is a better value if you can find one on sale like those linked above and don’t mind the MIR. If pricing settles out around the $400 - $420 mark, the ATI HD 3870 X2 is going to be that much more of an attractive video card.

[cvearl]

it's pretty much all the time in pretty much every game except Obvilion according to this review in your reivew thread:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_radeon_hd_3870_x2_performance/page4.asp

I just reread most of that review. I can't find him saying that there is stuttering or hitching or pausing.

Please show me where in that page.

C.

[cvearl]

Look. It is what it is. All I did was present 25 games across half a dozen or so respected reviews and compiled them together. They won in 14 and tied in 4. Held thier own in 6 and 1 was borked.

I know this is an nVidia fan site. People here will favor the nVidia products so to that end, this thread is getting exactly the response I expected.

That's cool.

Thought the numbers were interresting is all.

C.

[SH64]

What nobody has brought up is that ATI cards STILL have broken shadows in at least 3 popular games(well quite a few people still play them) and that is BF2.BF2142 and Company of Heroes(and expansion). Game compatability goes to the GTX....
Yep i still play BF2 (dont forget NFS:MW too!) . i think the shadow issue is due to a limitation on the R4xx/R5xx GPU's so there is no way ATi could fix that. seeing the issue still exist on the mentioned games is the proof.

[cvearl]

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
AMD has delivered an impressive piece of technology; the ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2. While it has some trouble catching up to the performance of the GeForce 8800 GTX, it produces a satisfying gameplay experience. The fact is that unless you are running a 30” monitor the HD 3870 X2 is likely going to “outrun” your display anyway. With the promise of updated drivers it has potential for an improved gameplay experience, and we think that will come. The 3870 X2 is a good value at $449, but the GeForce 8800 GTX is a better value if you can find one on sale like those linked above and don’t mind the MIR. If pricing settles out around the $400 - $420 mark, the ATI HD 3870 X2 is going to be that much more of an attractive video card.

His entire review seems on the contrary to everyone elses. However. He is a reviewer and I am not. So that is all I can say. I wish I could get one of these and test the livin bejeezes out of it myself with 2 dozen of my own games and see how I feel about it personally.

No one really raised any red flags. Just some cautionary stuff regarding "well this IS a dual GPU card and AMD will have to REALLY work hard to keep it working well into the future blah blah blah". Perhaps they are right? Perhaps that is where AMD is going and all will be well.

14 out of the 25 games tested were faster on the 3870x2. 4 were a tie so that's 18 were good to go. 6 were just below the GTX in performance and Supcom was broken.

For a launch at the same price that is pretty good and promising to say the least in terms of AMD investing the energy and support that they should.

C.

[cvearl]

I do admit though. This product would have been recieved with a bit more fanfare if it were $419 out of the gate. AMD fans dont mind $449 but that little bit less would have sinched it for even those wary of it.

C.

[SH64]

Look. It is what it is. All I did was present 23 games across half a dozen or so respected reviews and compiled them together.

I know this is an nVidia fan site. People here will favor the nVidia products so to that end, this thread is getting exactly the response I expected.

That's cool.

Thought the numbers were interresting is all.

C.
Look its true this is an nVIDIA fansite but i can assure you that I myself not biased towards nvidia this time. actually i'd like to see ATi in the ring again.
however when i see the benchmarks i can conclude this :
The 3870X2 (currently) :
1) Has very low min. framerates in some games. (-)
2) Does not have CF working /or losses in Crysis. (-) [most important game so far & prolly for this whole year]
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_radeon_hd_3870_x2_performance/page12.asp
3) Does not let you run under single GPU mode & thus puts you under the mercy of the ATi driver support. (-)
4) Draws more power than the 8800GTX/Ultra (-)
5) Has relatively low price (+)

Did i miss something else ? is that a biased judgement in your opinion ?

Post Edited.

[Amuro]

I just reread most of that review. I can't find him saying that there is stuttering or hitching or pausing.

Please show me where in that page.

C.
I was referring to the low min FPS in that review. And FEAR isn't the only game.

[LordJuanlo]

I do admit though. This product would have been recieved with a bit more fanfare if it were $419 out of the gate. AMD fans dont mind $449 but that little bit less would have sinched it for even those wary of it.

C.

And what about $383.99 (http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0281494)?

[slaWter]

The X2 is a really nice card, no doubt about that. I'm glad to see ATI is back, in fact the X2 is the fastest card right now IMO and the price is also very good.
But only for now I guess, the GX2 will be faster because G92 is simply the faster chip...
I'm interested in Crossfire X because 2 GX2 is simply out of question for me, that's why I like the X2 so much :p

[mustrum]

It's a nice card. Delivers the right performance for the price it is set at. Yeah it needs 2 GPU's to overcome a single GTX but the costumer should not care since it is no hassle to set up and drivers seem to be ok. The standard layout is just as long as a GTX is and there is allready cards with shorter PCBs and better coolers available!

Well done ATI. The dual G92 card will definatly be faster but i am sure it will also be more expensive and the dual PCB design makes replacing cooling pretty much impossible.

Personally i love my G92 GTS butwe all should be glad ATI can come up with this card. Competition is never bad.

[Amuro]

Since the GX2 will be two PCBs, I bet the clock speed will be lowered to reduce heat, so it will probably be only slightly faster than the 3870X2, and that goes for its price too.

[SH64]

It's a nice card. Delivers the right performance for the price it is set at. Yeah it needs 2 GPU's to overcome a single GTX but the costumer should not care since it is no hassle to set up and drivers seem to be ok. The standard layout is just as long as a GTX is and there is allready cards with shorter PCBs and better coolers available!

Well done ATI. The dual G92 card will definatly be faster but i am sure it will also be more expensive and the dual PCB design makes replacing cooling pretty much impossible.

Personally i love my G92 GTS butwe all should be glad ATI can come up with this card. Competition is never bad.
Amen to that. despite my takes on it , the 3870X2 is still a nice card for its price & i'm happy to see ATi back to the competition. i'm still weighting the idea of replacing my X1900XTX with it. probably if i find it in a nearby store at a good price , i'll pick it up right away!

[XMAN52373]

I just reread most of that review. I can't find him saying that there is stuttering or hitching or pausing.

Please show me where in that page.

C.

The bad news is, COD4 was a cut scene not actua game play. BIOSHOCK(AAT review) was basicly a walkthru of a ma with no enemies, no gun fire, no grenades, no nothing, just dead bodis and a walk thru. Crysis was the GPU again and actual game play is vastly different here. UT3 was a flyby, not actual game play. Only [H] did a good review in my opion as they, get this, actually played the games they used in the review instead of using canned benches. Multiple runs, multiple maps, 7+ days, averages for each area, comments on how it performed actually playing the game not running something that can be severly tweaked for. Case in point, the .123 driver AMD sent out on friday, [H] noted that in the Crysis canned bench, it does show a 60% boost in fps as AMD exspected but only showed at best a 2fps increase for actual game play.

[Madpistol]

I think that the 3870x2 is a wonderful card at the moment... The problem is that ATI released it about a year too late. If this had been released last year, Nvidia would have been quaking in their boots.

[DRen72]

The X2 is a really nice card, no doubt about that. I'm glad to see ATI is back, in fact the X2 is the fastest card right now IMO and the price is also very good.
But only for now I guess, the GX2 will be faster because G92 is simply the faster chip...
I'm interested in Crossfire X because 2 GX2 is simply out of question for me, that's why I like the X2 so much :pSame here. The X2 does not interest me as a single card solution but in dual card Crossfire mode on an X38 board, it certainly does.

However, there is not much out or coming out that a single GTX can't handle right now. Crysis is the exception, but it doesn't play super well on Ultra High for any of these cards. However, it might on Quad Crossfire.

I'm still waiting for dual Crossfire benchmarks but I hear that won't happen until March.