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|MaguS|
02-12-08, 01:09 PM
We all dislike bad DRM but what about those that seem to work good initially? Take a look at how broken XBLive's DRM is...

*User had a system that was shared with the household, multiple gamertags on it.
*User shares Downloaded content with Household through the system like it is intended to be used.
*The users system fails like its intended to so he uses the warranty to get the system replaced.
*Now the household can nolonger access the content unless they sign into the gamertag that originally purchased it, the DRM blocks global access do to the console being different from the original that purchased the content.

MS has no answer or resolution for the customer... he lost a basic functionality of his system and they don't care. He will not be compinsated for this issue aswell...

http://consumerist.com/355519/microsoft-has-no-answer-for-their-broken-xbox-live-drm

Buenamos
02-12-08, 02:03 PM
that's ****ty.

LurkerLito
02-12-08, 03:48 PM
Yeah that's why I am always so paranoid about my 360 getting a RROD. I have bought quite a few Live arcade titles so I know if I do get a RROD I'd be really pissed off.

Before the RROD issue was so publicized, MS use to refund people the points for all the purchased arcade games, so you could repurchase them with your replacement box.

ViN86
02-12-08, 04:20 PM
MS needs to transfer the original serial number relations from the dead 360 to the new one when they ship it out. shouldnt be hard, all they really need to do is scan the dead one, scan the new one, and replace old number in the database with the new one.

one would think they could fix this... :|

Medion
02-12-08, 05:39 PM
I've avoiding a next gen console like the plague so far. Wii and PS3 don't have enough games to interest me, while the 360 is a faulty PoS.

PS3 is starting to get some games that interest me, so that's the route I'll eventually go. I think that those analyst predictions of the PS3 outselling the 360 in 2008 are well founded. Another price drop and a big release or two is all it will take.

bacon12
02-12-08, 06:40 PM
Can you say class action lawsuit? Make some lawyers millions, and the consumers get 20 bucks a piece.

Medion I live really close to you BTW.

ViN86
02-12-08, 06:52 PM
I've avoiding a next gen console like the plague so far. Wii and PS3 don't have enough games to interest me, while the 360 is a faulty PoS.

PS3 is starting to get some games that interest me, so that's the route I'll eventually go. I think that those analyst predictions of the PS3 outselling the 360 in 2008 are well founded. Another price drop and a big release or two is all it will take.
doubtful. if true, only because the 360 saturated the market in the past 2 years :lol:

|MaguS|
02-12-08, 09:39 PM
doubtful. if true, only because the 360 saturated the market in the past 2 years :lol:
How so? I don't even think they broke 20million world wide yet and the PS2 is far beyond that... Theres plenty of room to grow... X360 though has lost alot of momentum the last couple of months while the PS3 has been steadly climbing in sales.

I can see Sony catching up on a by monthly sale figure soon and in over a year probably total numbers sold. Mind you that in Europe and Japan the X360 is doing poorly.

St Lobus
02-12-08, 10:21 PM
We all dislike bad DRM but what about those that seem to work good initially? Take a look at how broken XBLive's DRM is...

*User had a system that was shared with the household, multiple gamertags on it.
*User shares Downloaded content with Household through the system like it is intended to be used.
*The users system fails like its intended to so he uses the warranty to get the system replaced.
*Now the household can nolonger access the content unless they sign into the gamertag that originally purchased it, the DRM blocks global access do to the console being different from the original that purchased the content.

MS has no answer or resolution for the customer... he lost a basic functionality of his system and they don't care. He will not be compinsated for this issue aswell...

http://consumerist.com/355519/microsoft-has-no-answer-for-their-broken-xbox-live-drm

I have been fighting a similar battle to this guy since August, 2007. I have finally been able to get most of my issues fixed, but it required a complaint to the Better Business Bureau. Interestingly, going through their service department never got me a phone call back, but a complaint to the BBB got a response within a week. I was instructed to create a new silver account that they would refund my points back to so I can repurchase them, and have received 2600 of 3800 points so far. The other 1200 points are coming, but they are for games I purchased more than a year ago. Apparently that takes the authorization of someone higher up than who I have been talking to.

It's just a shame that MS isn't able to simply solve this problem, and consumers like us have to jump through hoops to have something repaired and restored as it originally should have been.

ViN86
02-13-08, 12:02 AM
How so? I don't even think they broke 20million world wide yet and the PS2 is far beyond that... Theres plenty of room to grow... X360 though has lost alot of momentum the last couple of months while the PS3 has been steadly climbing in sales.

I can see Sony catching up on a by monthly sale figure soon and in over a year probably total numbers sold. Mind you that in Europe and Japan the X360 is doing poorly.
i was jk. lol :p

just trying to get a rise out of the sony crowd :D

Bearclaw
02-13-08, 12:22 AM
Microsoft pulls another ****ty move..

|MaguS|
02-13-08, 06:30 AM
i was jk. lol :p

just trying to get a rise out of the sony crowd :D
There are other ways you can do that... ;)

LordJuanlo
02-13-08, 07:23 AM
So if my 360 dies (and I'm afraid it's very possible) and I get a new one, I will never be able to play my arcade games (currently Prince of Persia and soon Street Fighter IV) unless I'm online???. This system is pure BS!!!!

Medion
02-13-08, 07:52 AM
Can you say class action lawsuit? Make some lawyers millions, and the consumers get 20 bucks a piece.

Medion I live really close to you BTW.

I live in Louisiana now, just got too lazy to update that.

Ruined
02-13-08, 02:11 PM
Yep, the XBLA DRM is very broken. Poor system with poor portability. Microsoft needs to fix it, but obviously they don't care. People have been complaining since 2005 (no joke, check the XBOX.COM Wishlist/Feedback forums for the 150 page thread of people complaining.)

Bottom line, Microsoft is just expecting people to bend over and take it up the rear on this one. Hopefully the consumerist exposure will help expediate the fixing of this problem. Your content is basically held hostage on the first console you buy, and if it breaks or you want to upgrade (say to an HDMI model) you are basically out of luck and need to wait 3+ months if ever to get the paid content transferred. You simply lose the free/limited time content you have... All unless you are logged on to XBOX Live of course. Though profiles become completely useless with this DRM due to the broken way it functions, you can't log into XBOX Live and play the arcade game on another profile. To top it off, if you are in the middle of an XBOX Live Arcade game and your net connection goes out for even 5 seconds, you will be booted out of the full version of the game into the trial version with your progress lost and possibly suffer savegame glitches in the process.

Piss poor job from the biggest software manuf out there, I'm very disappointed and angered. :thumbdwn:

Lyme
02-13-08, 11:14 PM
While this problem is pretty bad, it isn't as bad as most of you are making it out to be. Or maybe I'm just different by leaving my 360 always hooked up to the internet.

And while I'm sure MS will fix the issue, I'm very sure that people will not like the solution. Dis-associating your tag with a 360 and then associating it with another will be bound to piss people off who want games offline on multiple boxes.

As well, technically the DRM isn't broken, it just isn't as flexible as people would like. The guy still has access to all his games.

Ruined
02-14-08, 12:18 AM
Sony's way is a bit more flexible.

Content can be downloaded downloaded to 5 different consoles, and you don't have to be online to access the content (Warhawk is the only exception I know of, but you can't even play it single-player anyways).

It works really well with Rock Band content. Friends can log on with my account and download all the songs and play them even without being logged into my account.

I think thats what MS is trying to avoid though - friends sharing stuff, they want each person to pay for their copy of games. I can't blame MS on that point - but their current system is no good.

And IIRC, after you download the content from Sony 5 times you are out of luck unless you call support and they grant you additional downloads. I can't say I'm a fan of that system either! If I buy something I personally should have unlimited access to it. None of these DRM schemes have figured out how to do that yet.

|MaguS|
02-14-08, 01:25 AM
I think thats what MS is trying to avoid though - friends sharing stuff, they want each person to pay for their copy of games. I can't blame MS on that point - but their current system is no good.

And IIRC, after you download the content from Sony 5 times you are out of luck unless you call support and they grant you additional downloads. I can't say I'm a fan of that system either! If I buy something I personally should have unlimited access to it. None of these DRM schemes have figured out how to do that yet.
You can download any content you purchased on your own console as many times as you want, The 5 download limit only applies to other accounts/consoles. Not your own.

ArturNOW
02-14-08, 04:03 AM
It Sucks. From PSN you can download to up to five different consoles from one account. So if they replace your console there's no problem at all...

Lyme
02-14-08, 11:25 AM
Sony's way is a bit more flexible.

It works really well with Rock Band content. Friends can log on with my account and download all the songs and play them even without being logged into my account.

You have made a perfect point to why MS's DRM is so very unflexible.

I'm also quite surprised at how easy going the Sony drm is. You would think with their heavy backing of the RIAA, they would come up with something quite restrictive. Unless of course they log all the downloads by your friends and intend to sue them to death.

|MaguS|
02-14-08, 11:35 AM
You have made a perfect point to why MS's DRM is so very unflexible.

I'm also quite surprised at how easy going the Sony drm is. You would think with their heavy backing of the RIAA, they would come up with something quite restrictive. Unless of course they log all the downloads by your friends and intend to sue them to death.

Well considering that you can't do anything with the DLC and its already overpriced I dout its anything like downloading MP3's which the RIAA hates. I mean I get a Rock Band track, I can't do anything with it other then use it for Rock Band... With MP3s its alittle more wide open.

Also see what I said, You can only share the DLC between 5 consoles. All Accounts on a single console has access to anything that has been downloaded (Which should be the case always).

Peoples-Agent
02-14-08, 12:57 PM
My 360 is always online, so it would never effect me but I do agree this is total BS.

Alot of people like to take their 360s around to friends houses for sessions and there isn't always a net connection around, obviously.

I avoid most of the Arcade stuff because it's mainly garbage apart from the odd rare gem.

The ball is in Sony's court. The PS3 as far as online playability goes is still very drab and soul-less. If they can offer decent messaging and interactivity features similar to what XB Live has they will be onto something.

|MaguS|
02-14-08, 07:25 PM
http://kotaku.com/356776/playstation-3-outsells-xbox-360-ds-in-january

Wii - 274,000
PlayStation 3 - 269,000
Nintendo DS - 251,000
PlayStation Portable - 230,000
Xbox 360 - 230,000

Welp looks like the predictions of the PS3 gaining steam this year are proving true!

Ruined
02-15-08, 07:09 AM
You can download any content you purchased on your own console as many times as you want, The 5 download limit only applies to other accounts/consoles. Not your own.

Lets not mislead people here. Again, if you run into some bad luck with a few broken consoles and then upgrade to PS4, etc, eventually those 5 downloads run out and you no longer own your content. That, too, is bull****.

Microsoft has the right idea with permanently linking the content to your gamertag - Sony should have done that. However, Microsoft's console-side protection is too restrictive.

Both systems are broken, however Microsoft's is more visibly broken in the short term. Arguably in the long term, Sony's is more broken - as you will eventually run out of the 5 downloads but you will always be able to play the XBLA content online.

|MaguS|
02-15-08, 07:15 AM
Lets not mislead people here. Again, if you run into some bad luck with a few broken consoles and then upgrade to PS4, etc, eventually those 5 downloads run out and you no longer own your content. That, too, is bull****.

Sony can reset that count tho, thats the difference. With the X360 it looks like your SOL on the first system death since its all one per console and hardwired that way.

It's alot like online activation for games... they all have a limit of activations but you can reset that limit by just calling the companies support.

Sony's system is not broken untill we actually see it be broken, just because it shares alot of similarities with MS's and other online systems doesn't mean it will have the same downfalls. And again... it is tied to your user a account on the PSN, it just allows you to share most content with other accounts.