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View Full Version : [RUMOR] XNA isn't all that great...


|MaguS|
02-22-08, 12:03 PM
If your an indie developer looking to make money from your works. News jut broke that even though MS announced the XNA development platform for small developers at a low cost they also cut the royalties for indie titles. Where the developer was getting 70% they are now getting 35%. I hope this isn't a trend, I don't want the game industry to become like the music industry.

Rumor is that this also might cause alot of indie developers to shift from XBLive development to PSN due to the difference in royalties. It has not been said how much Sony pays out but Im guessing its more then 35%.

http://kotaku.com/359668/microsoft-cuts-indie-royalties-in-half

Several developers directly effected by the cut told Kotaku that the once generous royalty share of 70 percent given to them by the company was within the past few months cut down to 35 percent.

At least one developer I spoke with said they were considering moving over to Sony and its Playstation Network in light of the cuts.

S.I.N
02-22-08, 12:45 PM
Shouldn't they be lucky there getting something?

|MaguS|
02-22-08, 12:52 PM
So you would be happy to spend all the time developing a title only to sell it and get 35% of the profits? This is their job, and its not like its alot in royalties to begin with. They are making 35% of the $4.99 your paying for the game.

I mean it's not like MS is doing much of anything, they do Q/A testing and then provide the network for it to be downloaded from. They aren't investing much of anything into the titles. Hell they can't say that they needed to cut the royalties to pay for bandwidth since thats what the gold subscribers are suppose to be doing...

thor1182
02-22-08, 12:56 PM
So you would be happy to spend all the time developing a title only to sell it and get 35% of the profits? This is their job, and its not like its alot in royalties to begin with. They are making 35% of the $4.99 your paying for the game.

I mean it's not like MS is doing much of anything, they do Q/A testing and then provide the network for it to be downloaded from. They aren't investing much of anything into the titles. Hell they can't say that they needed to cut the royalties to pay for bandwidth since thats what the gold subscribers are suppose to be doing...


magus stop saying stuff that I agree with... how am I supposed to call you a brainless sony shill when you make sense ?!?!

Mr. Hunt
02-22-08, 01:04 PM
That is ridiculous... I don't care what company it is... the people who make the game should be getting AT LEAST half... and realistically I say 60-75%... I know we don't live in a perfect world... but this is just robbery.

Buenamos
02-22-08, 01:33 PM
that's pretty sad

RAY16
02-22-08, 01:48 PM
Isn't XNA just an alternate, gaming-oriented GUI for Visual C# Express Edition? I mean, you could conceivably do the same exact things without XNA... right?

|MaguS|
02-22-08, 01:55 PM
Isn't XNA just an alternate, gaming-oriented GUI for Visual C# Express Edition? I mean, you could conceivably do the same exact things without XNA... right?

Kinda, XNA is MS's DevTools to allow indie developers to code for thier closed platforms without having to buy a DevKit. It's not designed for PC development, rather its designed for development for platforms like teh X360 and Zune. You need XNA or a DevKit to get software to run on the platforms though.

Lyme
02-22-08, 06:27 PM
I doubt MS has ever had a fixed price contract for indie developers. It is likely if you are a indie and have produced a few poor sellers, that your percentage of the take will go down.
When to comes to Indie development and XNA, MS gives:
-Free professional grade development tools.
-Marketing.
-Testing and certification of your game.
-Translation of the game into other languages.
-Distribution.
-Seed funding if needed.

As we are comparing to Sony, they don't have a indie/non-professional software development kit. I don't consider linux much of a develomnet kit.

|MaguS|
02-22-08, 06:38 PM
I doubt MS has ever had a fixed price contract for indie developers. It is likely if you are a indie and have produced a few poor sellers, that your percentage of the take will go down.
When to comes to Indie development and XNA, MS gives:
-Free professional grade development tools.
-Marketing.
-Testing and certification of your game.
-Translation of the game into other languages.
-Distribution.
-Seed funding if needed.

As we are comparing to Sony, they don't have a indie/non-professional software development kit. I don't consider linux much of a develomnet kit.

XNA is not free, its $100/month... Sony just launched their free indie development kit, other then that they supported indie developers by fully funding them (PixelJunk, Flow Creator and Little Big Planet Developers for some).

MS also does not Seed Fund any indie developer, nor do they translate any of the titles. What marketing does MS offer? Putting a banner on their Live? Yeah so great marketing, I don't see MS showing the games off at game shows like Sony has done.

And its not about contracted royalties going down, its about the max royalties. They claimed that MS originally paid out 70% but recently in the recent months has cut it to 50% and in what right do they have to lower teh amount of royalties that a developer recieves if their title is selling poorly? MS invested almost nothing into the title so why should they recieve more?

Moo
02-22-08, 06:51 PM
Holy ****ing ****, Microsoft trying to make money, GASP. :rolleyes:

crainger
02-22-08, 09:22 PM
Bann!

NaitoSan
02-22-08, 10:02 PM
careful! you might get infected with elkware!

sytaylor
02-23-08, 09:48 AM
Microsoft logic:

"We made it so easy, its like a game factory, we'll be kind and let them have some of the money for doing the grunt work..."

Lyme
02-23-08, 07:37 PM
XNA is not free, its $100/month...

uhh, no.

The XNA Game Studio is free.
C# express, which is used for development is free.
Subscribing to the XNA creators club (so you can test on the 360), is optional and costs $100 a YEAR.

http://creators.xna.com/Education/newtoxna.aspx
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/11/microsoft-launches-xna-creators-club/

Plus, I'm sure you don't need reminding that simply providing a engine to build your game on, is not the same as providing development tools to do so. MS and partners have been providing game engines for XNA for over a year now http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/x/

Zeta
02-24-08, 07:08 AM
Lyme is correct. A lot of FUD being posted in this thread. Research this a bit guys before posting.

I'm not too sure about the % but it makes sense to me. When xbox360 came out you might have had a few million people. For anyone to make money you would have to give a higher percentage since its a small pool. Now that the 360 has over 15 mil units sold the pool has got much bigger. Sure you make less per sale but you should also sell a lot more copies.

LurkerLito
02-24-08, 11:33 AM
I am sure MS only gave 70% royalties because they wanted to make a base of developers. Now that they have them, they will naturally want to cut royalties so they can make more money. Now I would guess that, even as an indie developer you'll have to either make huge sales to renegotiate your royalty fees, sign some kind of exclusive development deal with MS, or both to get anywhere close to the 70% royalty fees previously offered. If done properly, this could help MS try to exclude out any possible "amazing" upcoming indie game from coming to PSN. That's why in their response to the article they said "We don't disclose details on our business contracts, but what we can tell you is that we work closely with all of our partners to provide the Xbox 360 community with the best entertainment possible while making publishing a title on XBLA an attractive prospect."

Tr1cK
02-24-08, 11:49 AM
Making 35% profit in most markets is REAL good.

Ruined
02-24-08, 07:14 PM
If you make a really good, addictive game for XBLA... Say 10% of the XBOX 360 userbase buys it... Even with a 35% cut you make over 1.75 million dollars, and probably put nowhere near that into it moneywise if you need to use these tools. Sounds pretty awesome to me.

kev13dd
02-24-08, 07:47 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/24/gamesetwatch-breaks-down-xbla-royalties-cut/

They cut royalities but only for specific developers, PLUS they started covering fees in development that weren't covered before

Cheaper to get off the group, but less profit in the long run

That doesn't sound as horrible as Microsoft pocketing twice the money they originally would have

K

Tr1cK
02-24-08, 09:05 PM
Getting 35% of game sales is NOT the same as getting 35% profit. Profit is calculated after determing how much it costs you to make the game, and then subtracting that from how much you recieve as payment.

Considering the indie developer will practically do all of the work, getting a 35% cut is weak sauce.

On top of that, doesn't Microsoft OWN the game if you publish through XNA? If so, couldn't they arguably claim the basis of your game as their intellectual property, and then toss it over to one of their pro-studios and simply cut you out of the equation.

Yea I thought fast. The games development has to come out of the 35%. But seriously, how much money do you think would go in to developing these games?

|MaguS|
02-24-08, 10:25 PM
Yea I thought fast. The games development has to come out of the 35%. But seriously, how much money do you think would go in to developing these games?

I believe they stated that the min avg was $150K.