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View Full Version : DSL...The Nature Of The Beast


seeker
02-25-08, 09:10 AM
I have never used anything except dialup before, but my ISP was just bought out by a company that claims that they shall offer nationwide DSL by next month. Depending on several factors, I will probably subscribe to it. However, one question keeps running around in my head...is DSL always on, or is there a dialup to connect, like I'm doing now?

Alaa
02-25-08, 10:53 AM
Always on.

seeker
02-25-08, 12:17 PM
Thanks, I was afraid of that, since I only have one telephone line and can't afford another. However, I was reading about a new internet telephone service called Ooma, that provides a second line free. The catch is that they require you to buy a telephone hub from them that costs $400. I guess that in the long run it would be cheap enough.

The reason that this is an issue for me now, is because one change made with the buy out of the ISP is that instead of unlimited connection time, it is now only 350 hours a month, which I usually exceed. They don't just charge extra for the overtime, they suspend service til the next month.

Monolyth
02-25-08, 12:45 PM
DSL runs concurrently with your phone service. You usually just need a filter installed on your wall outlets and you're good to go. Since DSL is always on the only way they might be able to cap your usage is by actually tracking the amount of data you download, so that 350hrs probably only applies to dial-up, which makes sense, I would check their ToS on the various packages they will be offering for more details, and when in doubt call'em up and ask'em.

seeker
02-25-08, 02:14 PM
That is good to know, but it still sounds strange that I could dial a regular telephone number while DSL is operating at the same time. However, I'm not questioning it. Just guessing, I suppose that ToS is the baudrate of the DSL...yes?

Monolyth
02-25-08, 02:24 PM
That is good to know, but it still sounds strange that I could dial a regular telephone number while DSL is operating at the same time. However, I'm not questioning it. Just guessing, I suppose that ToS is the baudrate of the DSL...yes?

ToS = Terms of service, basically a contract stating your freedoms and limitations on the service.. ;) I wouldn't worry about the technology it's been around awhile, you should also keep in mind DSL can have a limited range, if you don't live usually <10k feet from your telephone's Central Office or a Remote Terminal you won't be able to receive the service. The company in question should be able to provide an availability check for you to determine if you meet the requirements.

seeker
02-25-08, 04:38 PM
10k feet! If a person must live within less than two miles of the telephone company, then there can't be that many DSL customers. I really don't want to, but I may have to break down and get cable.

crainger
02-25-08, 06:40 PM
I wouldn't worry. We have DSL here in AU and there are people who live 10-20km from their nearest exchange who get a connection just fine.

seeker
02-25-08, 06:58 PM
I wonder if the quality of service varies much by locale?

crainger
02-25-08, 07:50 PM
It does. Why not do some research with neighbours. Ask if they have DSL, who they are with etc. If they all have nice clean connections the only thing you have to worry about is how good your providor is and how good the wiring in your home is.

seeker
02-25-08, 08:05 PM
That sounds reasonable, but unfortunately, I live in a complex where I think that most of the residents have cable. I think that it will work out to trial and error. But then, judging by the availability from other companys that I have contacted in the past, I will be surprised if mine actually offers it for my location. They seem to be great at making claims that they can't live up to.

crainger
02-25-08, 08:10 PM
They always do. ::(:

Do they offer a trial period? I know a lot of DSL providers here offer a 30 day trial. So you can test to see if you can get it and have it working ok. If it doesn't work, you send their crap back for a full refund. Then again this is Australia. Completely different ball game when it comes to ISPs.

tacos4me
02-27-08, 07:26 PM
DSL isn't "always on" unless your provider hands out IPs via DHCP, which many don't. A lot of ISPs use PPPoE for their DSL service, which requires you perform a very painless 'dial' that takes no longer than 2 or 3 seconds. However, most routers can be set up to keep your PPPoE connection alive for however long you specify. So it's actually a virtual always on connection.

As for the distance thing, it gets rather complicated. Generally speaking, you're fine if you live under 15k feet from your local CO, or remote terminal. You're looking at 1.5Mbit - 3Mbit at that distance, and that's providing you have decent premises wiring.

Runningman
02-28-08, 03:38 AM
DSL isn't "always on" unless your provider hands out IPs via DHCP, which many don't. A lot of ISPs use PPPoE for their DSL service, which requires you perform a very painless 'dial' that takes no longer than 2 or 3 seconds.yes it is, dsl is a PVC not a SVC..

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7944


However, most routers can be set up to keep your PPPoE connection alive for however long you specify. So it's actually a virtual always on connection.
dsl providers use PPPoe as a way of authnticating and metering the end users, not for establishing curcuits.
As for the distance thing, it gets rather complicated. Generally speaking, you're fine if you live under 15k feet from your local CO, or remote terminal. You're looking at 1.5Mbit - 3Mbit at that distance, and that's providing you have decent premises wiring.[/ the distance is more of a factor determined by the CO equiptment and loop lenght( which has nothing todo with phsical length of the loop) then the internal wiring.

tacos4me
02-28-08, 03:02 PM
yes it is, dsl is a PVC not a SVC..

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7944



dsl providers use PPPoe as a way of authnticating and metering the end users, not for establishing curcuits.

Dial = authenticate, in this case. Point being, you don't 'dial in' you don't get to surf the internet or download. Your modem may be permanently connected to the DSLAM and your ISP's network, but you still need to authenticate, which requires dial-up style "dialing" inside of Windows. In my eyes that's not always on. Technically, yes, it is. But PPPoE authentication is a pain in the ass, and much like dial up. There's also a small overhead when compared to DHCP.

the distance is more of a factor determined by the CO equiptment and loop lenght( which has nothing todo with phsical length of the loop) then the internal wiring.

I don't know what to make of that statement. Of course loop length is a physical length. Loop length is the physical copper cable length from your local CO to your premises. It's as simple as that. DSL signals attenuate over distance, so the higher your loop length, the lower your attainable sync rate. Premises wiring also has a huge impact from my experience, especially in older houses with ancient copper. At lower sync rates, it's not much of an issue, but when you get up to 7-8Mbit, it starts to become a huge problem. That's when POTS splitters and CAT5 come in handy.

JasonPC
02-29-08, 06:12 PM
Yeah the quality of service does very much depend upon your locale and the overall situation. The farther away from the central office or remote terminal, the more likely you will only be able to qualify for one of the lower banwidth tiers (if they offer tiers) or at all. Even if you do qualify for DSL, there are other conditions dealing with the telephone wires that can degrade service. But if they are offering DSL, they should be able to correct those issues. Your own home's wiring also can limit bandwidth if it is very old.

Runningman
03-01-08, 12:48 AM
Dial = authenticate, in this case. Point being, you don't 'dial in' you don't get to surf the internet or download. Your modem may be permanently connected to the DSLAM and your ISP's network, but you still need to authenticate, which requires dial-up style "dialing" inside of Windows. In my eyes that's not always on. Technically, yes, it is. But PPPoE authentication is a pain in the ass, and much like dial up. There's also a small overhead when compared to DHCP.



I don't know what to make of that statement. Of course loop length is a physical length. Loop length is the physical copper cable length from your local CO to your premises. It's as simple as that. DSL signals attenuate over distance, so the higher your loop length, the lower your attainable sync rate. Premises wiring also has a huge impact from my experience, especially in older houses with ancient copper. At lower sync rates, it's not much of an issue, but when you get up to 7-8Mbit, it starts to become a huge problem. That's when POTS splitters and CAT5 come in handy.Lets just agree that my point of view is one from an engineering point of view and your's is one from an enthusiasts....

crainger
03-01-08, 12:56 AM
What point of view does an enthusiastic engineer have?

Runningman
03-01-08, 12:58 AM
What point of view does an enthusiastic engineer have?
a boner?

crainger
03-01-08, 01:01 AM
Let me see...

Correct.

Runningman
03-01-08, 01:02 AM
Let me see...

Correct.
boooonnnnggg!!!!

ATi
03-08-08, 11:59 AM
my dsl is on 24/7 :headexplode:

crainger
03-08-08, 08:03 PM
That's good news.

Runningman
03-08-08, 11:13 PM
would life had gone on if we didnt know that? only one can wonder....