NVIDIA confirms its errors with the NV30

[Ratchet]

ok, I added the < R300 bit myself :D

Here's the article. Good read. Makes me look forward to nV35 even more since it seems that nVidia has at least got their attitude back on track.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9173

[Ratchet]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd be pretty pissed after reading that if I recently plunked down a small fortune for a FX Ultra.

[bkswaney]

Not really. Every FX owner knows how the card runs
before they get it.
Why would we be upset?

Fact is it runs very well. Maybe not as good as NV had hoped but still a wonderful card. :)

[bkswaney]

Nvidia confirms its errors with the NV30

Too early with 0.13µ and DDR 2

By Fuad Abazovic in Cannes: Sunday 27 April 2003, 12:19


I know that Fudo can be a little eccentric, but throwing him off the Nvidia stand at CeBIT was really going far too far - unnamed AMD Euro executive
THE CEO OF NVIDIA confirmed in front of a crowded room of partners in Cannes that the NV30 Ultra also-known-as the Geforce FX 5800 Ultra failed to fulfil many of the things that both it and its partners expected.

This is a quite brave statement in into speech that Jen Hsun said in Cannes but we believe it was fair and necessary to say what went wrong to all of its partners.

Many people that we met from Nvidia's clutch or cabal of partners claimed that "the last few months were rough" and some were even fair enough to say that they lost some market share and money.

They now they feel much better now they know that Nvidia has a new card to play. "Nvidia deserves a second chance," some partners said to us, and this is a good statement if you bear in mind that ATI has never been so strong.

In our Cebit conversation with high ATI executives about 0.13 micron/marchitecture, he said: "Now you know why R300 was 0.15 microns" referring to the NV30 Ultra debacle. To remind you, it's still almost impossible to get any cards in late April almost six months after Nvidia introduced it at Comdex.

This statements finally confirms that Nvidia was wrong to blame the press – including the INQUIRER -- for the Geforce FX position on the market. Instead, they have to blame memory availability, noisy cooling solution, too hot DDR 2 and not the GPU as many previously thought and TSMC having a few problems with the trick .13µ (micron) process technology.

The marchitecture was simply not ready for Nvidia design. The INQUIRER certainly didn't make DDR 2 memory hot, or FX flow too noisy or 0.13 microns too hard to develop.

Nvidia has not spoken to us officially since Cebit 2003 because of all of its recent troubles, and the good and bad things that we posted on Inquirer. That's what we do here, we post news whether it's liked or disliked.

The truth sometimes hurts but as the CIA says, it sets you free.

ATI didn't want to cut relations with us even though we leaked more about them in last quarter than about Nvidia but appear to have decided to accept the rough with the smooth, rather than throwing their toys out of the pram.

The Geforce FX 6800 Ultra is the answer to all your prayers, with the NV35 shipping in volume in June all Nvidia partners hope, the most optimistic even saying in late May. µ

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is just more Iq bs anyway. It's about like them discovering NV might call the next drivers FX. :rolleyes:
Hell I've been calling them Det FX for months.
EVERYONE knows they MIGHT change it to FX other than keeping up the same old next number please. 2 to 3 then 4 to "FX" ;) :D

[Ratchet]

Saying

THE CEO OF NVIDIA confirmed in front of a crowded room of partners in Cannes that the NV30 Ultra also-known-as the Geforce FX 5800 Ultra failed to fulfil many of the things that both it and its partners expected. is a bit differnt that the tripe we usually get from TheInq.

[nrdstrm]

I personally, am very happy with my FX5800Ultra. I knew before I bought it that it wasn't the "Be All End All" of video cards that many though it was going to be (including myself). But because of our good friends at NVnews, Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc. I made a well informed decision and purchased the card. I'm happy with the performance, and the noise doesn't bother me (think 400W THX Certified Speakers pumping while gaming, when not gaming, the card is pretty much silent). That said, I already have someone lined up to buy the card (granted, for a little less than half of what I paid for it) and plan on getting an NV35 (did I see 6800 Mentioned in the article?) as soon as they come out (I work in the industry and had one of the first cards shipped with the FX). Of course if it's not a substantial increase over my FX, I won't buy it. In my opinion, just using a 256 Mem Bus will do the trick. I'll tell you more after E3 (I'm going this year) on my opinion.
Nrdstrm

[Unit01]

No this isn't true
The R300 has never existed. You're all dreaming. Wake up and see the truth it's nvidia only :p :D

[dohcmark8]

Originally posted by Unit01
No this isn't true
The R300 has never existed. You're all dreaming. Wake up and see the truth it's nvidia only :p :D

Ummmmm..... Crack? :eek:

[Volenti]

Originally posted by Unit01
No this isn't true
The R300 has never existed. You're all dreaming. Wake up and see the truth it's nvidia only :p :D

Well it looks like we've found the Iraqi Minister for information;)

[digitalwanderer]

This is a GOOD THING(tm), a very GOOD THING(tm)! I was seriously starting to worry that they were just gonna keep on pretending that the FX line was a "success" somehow and utterly kill themselves.

Y'know why this is so good?

Because it means they got the NV40 working right! There is no way in hell nVidia would have admitted the flaws in the NV3x line up if'n they didn't know FOR SURE that the NV40 was gonna kick some serious balls! :D

I'm actually starting to believe that we might see something really good out of nVidia before I thought we would...they might even make their rumoured May release!

This also explains the low-clock on the 9800 to me a bit; ATi knows too and coasted a bit with the 9800 so they could really give a big boost to their rumoured killer refresh on it that should be coming out shortly after nVidia does there thing.

I like it better when it's a closer race, I seem to benefit more from it personally since used cards seem a bit more available and cheaper; so I'm seeing this as a great bit of news. :)

[Bopple]

I agree with digitalwanderer.
Weren't they a bit more confident with their next product, they wouldn't have admitted it, rather kept quiet.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by CoWBoY
I better hear "New" and "Innovative" when they talk about the NV40's AA/AF algorithms. The mention of "WHQL" also needs to be addressed in their statement too.

You will, plus a whole lot of other new nifty buzzwords....nVidia's PR department is one of the most.....uhm, creative around. ;)

I agree about the WHQL, methinks that's the other big thing that nVidia finally just caved on. (And incidently why I included the whole NV3x line-up instead of just the NV30 like nVidia admitted, it's going to apply to all of them and nVidia is just going to abandon the line and try and sweep it under the rug as quickly as possible. I could very easily be wrong, I freely grant ya that. )

nVidia was trying like hell for the last few months to ignore/sidestep/work-around/cheat/lie/steal/bribe/blackmail/ANYTHING to get around WHQL as being important/neccessary, but I think they found out it's not quite as easy as they thought to dump an industry standard. (Well, at least for their industry. ;) ) M$ just wouldn't let them do it, (YEAY M$!!!), and now their doing the only smart option they can.

Admitting their screw-up and moving on.

I was just waiting for them to admit it in SOME way, however small, that the NV30 wasn't a complete success. That was the indicator I've been waiting for that something good was gonna be coming. :)

[sxotty]

All I can say is I have never heard so much unadultrated love for M$ until, this whole WHQL driver issue.

Somewhat humorous to me. But nevertheless, most people whoi diss M$ are just being stupid regularly.

[SnakeEyes]

It's definitely a sign that there's still hope for nVidia's cards in the future. All the PR FUD that was being spouted by nVidia concerning the nv3x series has really made me distrustful of their products, to the point that it became even more imperative to see what non-company technically inclined types were saying about the products' true capabilities. (DX9, etc. features examined to see what it really did or did not do, never mind the performance levels).

This just means I continue as usual, and when I upgrade again I'll be looking at the cards on the market at that point, reading up on end-user experiences, and make a decision based on what I plan to do with the new hardware. The nv30 imo wasn't the best card available for my needs, and that was enough that I went with ATI for the first time in almost a decade. The stupid PR misdirection move on nvidia's part only made me feel leary of them for future stuff.

Maybe they're learning after all. ;)

June for nv35. /me can't wait to see what the nv30 should have been like. :) (NOT sarcasm)

[Solomon]

I love it how everyone is basing that The CEO of NVIDIA did in fact say this. Geeeeeeeeeeeee. I wonder where this info came from. The Inqueerer. Funny how no other site has even said this information. Do you people believe everything the "National Enquirer" publishes?

Besides what CEO would blantantly say that their products was a dissapointment to resellers. Haha. That's absurd. I can see the CEO saying. "We didn't expect our NV30 to perform as it has..." No CEO would say, "the NV30 Ultra also-known-as the Geforce FX 5800 Ultra failed to fulfil many of the things that both it and its partners expected." Oh please... I can see a CEO say that their product has "failed".. lol!

Like I said awhile ago. This site crys wolf a zillion times. This one I didn't expect sites to actually post. Pretty sad...

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

[Hellbinder]

Fact is it runs very well. Maybe not as good as NV had hoped but still a wonderful card.

um, you have got to be kidding me...

-Missing half its DX9 features
-Hacked up AF
-Hacked up AA
-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on
-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch
-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed
-Several Screen errors in games when using AA
-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc..
-takes up 2 slots
-Is loud as a Dustbuster

This is without getting into the real nitty-gritty. Now All fanboy BS aside. How the Hell can you guys say something like *its still a great card*, *it still runs very well*.. etc etc. WTF is your Definition of a *bad* card then??

Good freaking grief. It sinmply irritates the hell out of me. IF ATi released a card with all these problems you all would scoff to high heaven about how patheticv it is. However, when Nvidia does it you pat them on the back and say *job well done*..????

I tell you. I just dont get it. Not at all. The Nv30 is not a good card in any sense of the Term. It may *work* but thats about it. How can you guys looking at the fact that its even overclocked to high heaven with a industrial HSF contraption to even get comparable FPS, Coupled with all the issues above, and the *FACT* that Nvidia is already discontinuing the line after 6 months of Lies and BS.....

Say its a good card????

[jAkUp]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
-Missing half its DX9 features
-Hacked up AF
-Hacked up AA
-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on
-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch
-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed
-Several Screen errors in games when using AA
-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc..
-takes up 2 slots
-Is loud as a Dustbuster


do you have a ****ing nv30??!! no. i have seen both nv30 and raddy 9700 PERSONALLY. you are basing your opinion on other opinions, and they base their opinions on others too... looky here buddy:

-Missing half its DX9 features - maybe... maybe not. who cares anyways, we are still years away from DX9 games
-Hacked up AF - why? works great... looks fine. maybe not as good as raddy... but still decent.
-Hacked up AA - why? maybe runs a little slow... but 4xaa at 1600x1200 looks great
-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on - again... only applies to high levels of aa and af
-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch - nope. have not had any driver problems except for 1 unreal 2 bug that was fixed with the 43.00 drivers. i have nfs hp2, and that i dont get that stupid fog bug everyone was complaining about... fog is there.
-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed - not proven. could be a problem with taking screenshots... etc. i have seen both raddy and nv30 moving... and i see no differences.
-Several Screen errors in games when using AA - nope. i use all games with aa and have no problems. and i have played every game under the sun.
-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc.. - 1 screensaver. thats it. a simple bug. i have not had any overheating problems. stays right at 50c's never higher... sometimes a little lower.
-takes up 2 slots - who cares??? first pci slot shares iq.. and plus doesnt allow decent cooling... nobody in their right mind would use that slot anyways... unless they have to.
-Is loud as a Dustbuster - well this is more of a prefrence thing... it doesnt bother me. i barely notice it after 10 seconds.

[RobHague]

Have a day off hellbinder ffs. :rolleyes: You ARE the living breathing definition of FANBOY.

[stncttr908]

Can't win them all. I'm just glad that nvidia has realized that they goofed this time around. At least we have unbiased resources such as nvnews to bring the truth about products, nvidia or not.

[marcocom]

Originally posted by CoWBoY
As far as these other people who enjoy their card go... well, there always has to be someone to buy a crappy product even if the evidence against the product is substancial.


crappy? what the **** do you have? bring it with ya and lets jump in UT2003 and see what it does for ya.

1gigahertz of laughter at that thought.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by jAkUp
do you have a ****ing nv30??!! no. i have seen both nv30 and raddy 9700 PERSONALLY. you are basing your opinion on other opinions, and they base their opinions on others too... looky here buddy:

-Missing half its DX9 features - maybe... maybe not. who cares anyways, we are still years away from DX9 games
-Hacked up AF - why? works great... looks fine. maybe not as good as raddy... but still decent.
-Hacked up AA - why? maybe runs a little slow... but 4xaa at 1600x1200 looks great
-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on - again... only applies to high levels of aa and af
-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch - nope. have not had any driver problems except for 1 unreal 2 bug that was fixed with the 43.00 drivers. i have nfs hp2, and that i dont get that stupid fog bug everyone was complaining about... fog is there.
-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed - not proven. could be a problem with taking screenshots... etc. i have seen both raddy and nv30 moving... and i see no differences.
-Several Screen errors in games when using AA - nope. i use all games with aa and have no problems. and i have played every game under the sun.
-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc.. - 1 screensaver. thats it. a simple bug. i have not had any overheating problems. stays right at 50c's never higher... sometimes a little lower.
-takes up 2 slots - who cares??? first pci slot shares iq.. and plus doesnt allow decent cooling... nobody in their right mind would use that slot anyways... unless they have to.
-Is loud as a Dustbuster - well this is more of a prefrence thing... it doesnt bother me. i barely notice it after 10 seconds.


Do you realize you just justified every point Hellbinder made without refuting a single point of his? Rationalization is all well and good, but facts are facts.

And Mr.Hague? I find Hellbinder's criticisms of nVidia to be a lot less fanboy than your continuing defense of what is ultimately a failure of a product to live up to it's advertisement. :rolleyes:

[Onde Pik]

-Missing half its DX9 features - maybe... maybe not. who cares anyways, we are still years away from DX9 games

I certainly care if I can get this for less money with a competing product. Besides releasing hardware that doesnt support DX9 features will be the very reasy why we wont see those DX9 games.

You CAN NOT say that this is not A argument for buying the R9800P. Maybe it means very little to you but it is still an argument.

-Hacked up AF - why? works great... looks fine. maybe not as good as raddy... but still decent.

You said it yourself, it is not as good. It is MUCH slower at compareable IQ.

Again an undenyable argument for buying the R9800P instead.

-Hacked up AA - why? maybe runs a little slow... but 4xaa at 1600x1200 looks great

Well 4xAA does look better on the Radeon, and it is faster. Especially at 1600x1200.

Well what do we have here, another argument to buy the R9800P.

-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on - again... only applies to high levels of aa and af

Well it practucally does not apply to the R9800.

Another argument.

-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch - nope. have not had any driver problems except for 1 unreal 2 bug that was fixed with the 43.00 drivers. i have nfs hp2, and that i dont get that stupid fog bug everyone was complaining about... fog is there.

I haven't got the card, so I have to give the FX the benefit of the doubt and asume that the FX is up to the Radeon in driver quality. Although I tink that is being too generous ;)

-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed - not proven. could be a problem with taking screenshots... etc. i have seen both raddy and nv30 moving... and i see no differences.

There is no use denying it, not everything needs to be proven. Fact is that there is a diffrence in IQ with driffrent drivers, and the ones that produce what looks worse also gives extra performance. Comon sense is enough to tell you SOMETHING is wrong, nomatter what it is. And R9800P doesnt have something wrong.

Yet another argument for buying the R9800P.

-Several Screen errors in games when using AA - nope. i use all games with aa and have no problems. and i have played every game under the sun.

LOL, the "No I know everything, and that is not true" argument lost it validity with me when I was 5.

-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc.. - 1 screensaver. thats it. a simple bug. i have not had any overheating problems. stays right at 50c's never higher... sometimes a little lower.

Fact is: Its happened once, it can happen again.

This is also an argument for buying the Radeon.


-takes up 2 slots - who cares??? first pci slot shares iq.. and plus doesnt allow decent cooling... nobody in their right mind would use that slot anyways... unless they have to.

Still its missing... end of discussion.

This certainly looks like another argument to buy the R9800P

-Is loud as a Dustbuster - well this is more of a prefrence thing... it doesnt bother me. i barely notice it after 10 seconds.

You still notice it.

Guess what kind of argument this is.





In the end. We have a long row of arguments speaking pro the radeon and con the g-force.

You can claim that they are small diffrences and of little importance. But still they ARE there... Undenyably so.

The only argument for the GFFX is that it is better at 3d applications like 3dsmax. Now it may be enough to satisfy your purchase but even though I use it 3dsmax alot I would never buy the FX.


Seriously man....

[ricercar]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Say its a good card????

Yes. My first-hand experience says a good card.

Hellbinder, do you have any first-hand experience with a GeForce FX 5800 Ultra, or are you mindlessly repeating someone else's opinon or review? I bet the latter.

My first-hand experience with two GeForce FX 5800 Ultras has never included driver/AA/AF/framerate/overheating problems. My games run fast and properly, even with full-screen eyecandy.

My first-hand experience with my FXFlow fan measures in at 45 dBM @ 1 meter A-weighting. In case you don't know what that means, this is on par with the fans on some of my PSUs and heatsinks. My CAI "Whisper" PSU is measurably louder than the FXFlow in 3D modes.

It does take up two slots. Oh my. I hadn't noticed.

With my first-hand experience with over a dozen NVIDIA and ATI video cards I'm pleased to say the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra is a good card.

[digitalwanderer]

You're an evil dick Onde Pik (j/k! ;) :p ), I was thinking of doing a blow-by-blow rebuttle but decided not to ta go easy on the guy.

C'mon, he's just defending a foolish purchase. Remember the line from "Big Chill" about rationalizations & masturbation? It's one of them situations. ;)

Besides, he's got first-hand experience with it after all.... :p

EDITED BITS: I posted this before the above post and just couldn't resist going back and adding that last comment.

[Lucien1964]

Originally posted by jAkUp
do you have a ****ing nv30??!! no. i have seen both nv30 and raddy 9700 PERSONALLY. you are basing your opinion on other opinions, and they base their opinions on others too... looky here buddy:

-Missing half its DX9 features - maybe... maybe not. who cares anyways, we are still years away from DX9 games
-Hacked up AF - why? works great... looks fine. maybe not as good as raddy... but still decent.
-Hacked up AA - why? maybe runs a little slow... but 4xaa at 1600x1200 looks great
-Unplayable Frame rates in *MANY* games with AA+AF turned on - again... only applies to high levels of aa and af
-Driver bugs Galore... far more than the R300 had at launch - nope. have not had any driver problems except for 1 unreal 2 bug that was fixed with the 43.00 drivers. i have nfs hp2, and that i dont get that stupid fog bug everyone was complaining about... fog is there.
-Hacked Driver paths for Reduced quality to get speed - not proven. could be a problem with taking screenshots... etc. i have seen both raddy and nv30 moving... and i see no differences.
-Several Screen errors in games when using AA - nope. i use all games with aa and have no problems. and i have played every game under the sun.
-Overheats very easily with 3d Screen savers etc.. - 1 screensaver. thats it. a simple bug. i have not had any overheating problems. stays right at 50c's never higher... sometimes a little lower.
-takes up 2 slots - who cares??? first pci slot shares iq.. and plus doesnt allow decent cooling... nobody in their right mind would use that slot anyways... unless they have to.
-Is loud as a Dustbuster - well this is more of a prefrence thing... it doesnt bother me. i barely notice it after 10 seconds.

For the price you pay for this card.......it falls into the catagory of .............Piece of sh!t.The price point is waaaaay to high and the card is very unbaleced.Anybody who bought into this card is a idiot.Money wasted end of story.Have a nice day. :)