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View Full Version : John Carmack on id Tech 6, Ray Tracing, Consoles, Physics and more


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egamer11
03-13-08, 02:41 AM
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=532

new technology:sparse voxel octree:afro:

NarcissistZero
03-13-08, 04:03 AM
For all those who say console games don't hurt PC games:

CARMACK: From a developer stand point the uncomfortable truth is that the console capabilities really dominate the development decisions today. If you look at current titles and how they’ve done on the console, you know, high end action GPU based things, the consoles are so the dominate factor that it’s difficult to set things up so that you can do much to leverage the really extreme high end desktop settings. Traditionally you get more resolution, where a console game might be designed for 720p and the high end PC you go ahead and run at 1080p or even higher resolution, that’s an obvious thing. You crank up the resolution. You turn off compression when you have 1GB of video memory available. And also normally you can go from a 30 Hz console game to a 60 Hz PC game. So there are a number of things you can crank up there on the PC, but it’s difficult to try and justify any radically different algorithm, something you would really do with 4x the power you’d have with a high end PC system.

NaitoSan
03-13-08, 05:39 AM
john carmack gonna fix it!

and good article.

rudedog
03-13-08, 05:55 AM
I don't think so

The move for developers to focus on the console and port to the PC rather than vise versa is also the culprit for what many people see as the lessening of PC gaming. Because the developers are financially required to target the larger and more profitable audiences of the PS3 and Xbox 360, it doesn't make sense for them to spend a lot of time or money to change the media or algorithms in a way to take advantage of the extra power a high-end PC can offer. John says that while increasing the resolution and frame rate on the PC is easy to do, really changing things for the PC market isn't going to make much sense for a developer.

PC gamers are screwed and it's not because of the pirates.....

crainger
03-13-08, 06:03 AM
Reading this while listening to The Bioshock Main theme (The Ocean on his Shoulders) makes crainger sad. Sad fugee face ::(:

nekrosoft13
03-13-08, 06:40 AM
For all those who say console games don't hurt PC games:

of course they do, developers have to scale down progress because of limited specs on consoles.

Buio
03-13-08, 07:24 AM
He's harsh on Ageia
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=532&type=expert&pid=3
That was one of those things where it was a stupid plan from the start and I really hope NVIDIA didnít pay too much because I found the whole thing disingenuous. etc

SeriTonin
03-13-08, 08:55 AM
As I've said in the past, when the next set of systems comes out in 2010 or whenever, I'm done with pc gaming. Consoles are just too much of the main focus to justify the continual upgrades for my pc. It will become teh internetz box. =/

svetli_pp
03-13-08, 08:59 AM
They'll have the power of the pc's from 2010 and will start to fall behind immediately like every time new gen consoles come into existence. Poor and illiterate man's gaming pleasure :thumbdwn:

six_storm
03-13-08, 09:02 AM
I think that devs needs to start getting back to the basics: Making a COMPLETE and STABLE game that focuses on more of the fun factor than graphics. I think that devs are too concerned with trying to make their games more realistic instead of making the game fun and stable. Maybe devs are just rushing games out too early? I just think that they are too concerned with the graphics more than anything.

OldOfEvil
03-13-08, 09:22 AM
I think that devs needs to start getting back to the basics: Making a COMPLETE and STABLE game that focuses on more of the fun factor than graphics. I think that devs are too concerned with trying to make their games more realistic instead of making the game fun and stable. Maybe devs are just rushing games out too early? I just think that they are too concerned with the graphics more than anything.

What the hell are you talking about six_storm?! Fun?! Stable?! You think we play these games for fun?! :p

six_storm
03-13-08, 09:27 AM
What the hell are you talking about six_storm?! Fun?! Stable?! You think we play these games for fun?! :p

Most PC gamers I know don't. They are just in it for the 1337 gR@pH1C$!!111

nekrosoft13
03-13-08, 09:49 AM
Most PC gamers I know don't. They are just in it for the 1337 gR@pH1C$!!111

you don't know many do you?

LordJuanlo
03-13-08, 11:09 AM
I think that devs needs to start getting back to the basics: Making a COMPLETE and STABLE game that focuses on more of the fun factor than graphics

I have played TONS of those games on my old ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC, they were really fun games. But now I am an old man and I want both good graphics and fun factor

Noriega
03-13-08, 11:24 AM
I think that devs needs to start getting back to the basics: Making a COMPLETE and STABLE game that focuses on more of the fun factor than graphics. I think that devs are too concerned with trying to make their games more realistic instead of making the game fun and stable. Maybe devs are just rushing games out too early? I just think that they are too concerned with the graphics more than anything.

You want to back in the 80s when consoles market died?

JigenD
03-13-08, 11:37 AM
I really like JC, he also makes some interesting comments on other things. I agree with him about PhysX especially (I made similar posts in that manner on nvnews before (and other forums)).

He's right about consoles taking the focus, but of course it would HELP PC gaming if there was less piracy, and Dell and HP didn't build computers that are completely incapable of playing recent games (though of course many don't buy a PC for gaming at all, it would open more doors if every PC could play games OK).

It's not that games are scaled down for consoles. Scaled down from what? Games are now build for consoles, and little thought is put into features for high end PC gamers. Like Carmack says, there's just not profit in it.

By next gen consoles are going to be doing at least 90% of what any PC game can do, so I don't really think PC gamers should worry about their platform of choice dying off. Both platforms have met in the middle.

The worry should be from the dumbing down of games in general. I wouldn't generalize and say console games are dumbed down, there have always been dumb games, but I'll agree in the past usually console games were 'dumber' than PC games. Anyways, the biggest worry today should come from developers that don't have enough money to take any risks and cash-in truly 'dumb' games like many on the Wii.

evox
03-13-08, 11:38 AM
I think that devs needs to start getting back to the basics: Making a COMPLETE and STABLE game that focuses on more of the fun factor than graphics. I think that devs are too concerned with trying to make their games more realistic instead of making the game fun and stable. Maybe devs are just rushing games out too early? I just think that they are too concerned with the graphics more than anything.
Meh.

six_storm
03-13-08, 11:47 AM
you don't know many do you?

I know a ton here and on a few other forum sites. ;)

Seriously, graphics aren't everything and I wish people would start realizing that. Yeah, they add a nice aspect to the game but what about the gameplay, the story line or the fun factor?

Noriega
03-13-08, 11:55 AM
I know a ton here and on a few other forum sites. ;)

Seriously, graphics aren't everything and I wish people would start realizing that. Yeah, they add a nice aspect to the game but what about the gameplay, the story line or the fun factor?

I know ton of PC players that playing RTS, Turn Strategy and Sims that graphic sucks. If graphic is not everything so why there are new generations of consoles every 6 years?

six_storm
03-13-08, 12:06 PM
I know ton of PC players that playing RTS, Turn Strategy and Sims that graphic sucks. If graphic is not everything so why there are new generations of consoles every 6 years?

New features, new ways of playing a game.

Noriega
03-13-08, 12:46 PM
New features, new ways of playing a game.

The bigger feature for changing console is graphic.

evox
03-13-08, 12:48 PM
New features, new ways of playing a game.
lol. you play PS3/X360 using your hands (like you did with PS2/Xbox). your analogy only works on Wii ( and it's motion sensitive controller). And most people don't give a **** about Wii because of it's poor visuals. You need hardware power to add new "features". Enhanced A.I., Physics, Sound Effects, Big Multiplayer etc all of them depend on console's hardware.

crainger
03-13-08, 03:44 PM
Don't upset six_storm. He's a ticking timebomb. You ever see oldsk00l explode? Think that, but times six and stormier.

NarcissistZero
03-13-08, 03:58 PM
I don't see why fun factor doesn't include graphics... part of the fun for me is being immersed in other worlds, and part of being immersed in other worlds is it looking real (or fake, but realisticly).

six_storm
03-13-08, 05:00 PM
lol. you play PS3/X360 using your hands (like you did with PS2/Xbox). your analogy only works on Wii ( and it's motion sensitive controller). And most people don't give a **** about Wii because of it's poor visuals. You need hardware power to add new "features". Enhanced A.I., Physics, Sound Effects, Big Multiplayer etc all of them depend on console's hardware.

Nobody cares about the Wii? Last time I checked they are still hard to find. Nobody does care about the Wii huh?

I don't see why fun factor doesn't include graphics... part of the fun for me is being immersed in other worlds, and part of being immersed in other worlds is it looking real (or fake, but realisticly).

That's almost like saying you never got immersed in Doom or any other old game because the graphics sucked. You know you got into Doom big time back in the day lol.