NV35 Still 4x2?

[OICAspork]

From the The inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9217)
[quote]AS WE SAID A WHILE BACK, the NV35 memory controller is a redesign. But as we previously said in our article memory controller was redesigned but there was little time to do many other modifications, and the limitation in the memory controller needed fixing, not the GPU speed nor the memory.
A memory controller and support for DDR 1 at 450 MHz will give Nvidia 28.8 GB/sec real bandwidth while NV30 had only 16 GB/s, making this new card almost twice as fast if you're counting memory bandwidth.

The pipeline number will remain four while the NV35 will use two texture memory units (TMUs) that will give eight textures per clock but just if multi texturing is used.

Redesigning memory controllers is complex work and Nvidia put a lot into it, since this is what a future design needed to outperform ATI's efforts.

But despite Nvidia's efforts, we are certain that ATI still has many cards to play in this graphics battle. ATI can easily use memory clocked at, let's say, 400MHz, and possibly give the NV35 trouble.

We are sure that both Nvidia and ATI won't quit this leadership fight as it's a battle for mainstream business, with both sides showing equal determination. µ[/quote

This is in keeping with what I believed from the outset... the NV35 is coming out too soon to account for changes to both the memmory controller and basic architecture... Anyone have any confirmation or rebuttal for this?

[Paul]

To save me writing out my own explaination, i'll just quote Uttar from another thread. Hope he doesn't mind :)

Originally posted by Uttar
Pipe Arrangement: Can output 8 textured pixels at the same time, so it looks like 8 pipes. But there's only 4 shader pipes, however, just like the NV31 only got 2 shader pipes.
The NV30 also got 4 shader pipes, but the NV35 would get an advantage against it thanks to decoupled texturing/FP ( I'm not 100% sure of that thing, but it's very, very likely ) and maybe a few other things ( don't know what though, I doubt there's even anything )

As for why it isn't a "true" 8 pipe architecture - I guess it's just too big a jump for a simple refresh product, and nVidia are really pushing to get the card out ASAP. The 128bit bus was what was really holding them back, and they've fixed that, so the NV35 should be fine. Doing major pipeline changes would have taken yet more time, and they need to compete, and beat, what ATi have - If only for a couple of months, until the fall.

[Uttar]

Eh, that's practical, someone who quotes you so you don't have to quote yourself anymore :)
Let me say though that I'm not 100% sure of what I said there. I still find it more likely than what The Inquirer said ( in fact, you could even say it could be compatible, although it can also not be compatible ) but I'm not sure...


Uttar

[volt]

I smell a rat :rolleyes:

[digitalwanderer]

Does it really matter the architecture they choose?

I mean, as long as it's fast I don't really care what goes on behind the scenes on the card. ;)

[Paul]

Hey, you're the one who's always saying how excited you get speculating about stupid details of cards, away from the kids for 5 minutes :D

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Paul
Hey, you're the one who's always saying how excited you get speculating about stupid details of cards, away from the kids for 5 minutes :D

The son's home sick again and him and his sister are playing "Blue's Clues ABC" on Boomer right now as I listen to 'em on the monitor, I'm fine for about 10 minutes this time buddy! :p


Yeah, you are correct. I'm just playing devil's advocate to be troublesome, I came in too late to join me usual side in this particular argument so I thought I'd give it a go from the other side. ;)

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Does it really matter the architecture they choose?

I mean, as long as it's fast I don't really care what goes on behind the scenes on the card. ;)

Yeah, it does actually. Shading pipes!

[Sazar]

from the hype I had been hearing all this time I was under the impression that the nv35 would be a huge leap forward in tech and what not...

this card will undoubtedly be fast but just how much faster than the r350/r350 refresh will it really be ?

@ those clocks and a 4x2 tech... will it really be as fast as the paper specs and expectations suggest or will it be a speed bump over the nv30 ?

more info if someone can enlighten me wid it :)

cheers...

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Sazar
from the hype I had been hearing all this time I was under the impression that the nv35 would be a huge leap forward in tech and what not...

Methinks the most important part of that sentance is the "from the hype I had been hearing"...

Remember who puts out the hype, and don't get your hopes up too high before the first reviews come out. ;)

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Methinks the most important part of that sentance is the "from the hype I had been hearing"...

Remember who puts out the hype, and don't get your hopes up too high before the first reviews come out. ;)

We put out the hype............

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
We put out the hype............

Yeah, but we smash it to pieces to reveal it's rotten inner-core too...so it sort of balances it out nicely. :)

[Paul]

lol.

Anyways, as i (and other people) have said before, the NV35 really isn't going to be that much faster in low res, non AA situations. The NV30 already wins these over the ATi cards as it is.

You'll see some pretty big gains at higher resolutions though. NV35 will beat a 9800 Pro at 1600x1200 4x AA.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by Paul
You'll see some pretty big gains at higher resolutions though. NV35 will beat a 9800 Pro at 1600x1200 4x AA.
Do you know this to be a fact, Paul?

[digitalwanderer]

If'n they don't improve their AA & AF performance for THIS card I just don't see them really competing. :(

[Paul]

Originally posted by monkeydust
Do you know this to be a fact, Paul?

It's fairly certain, yes.

But if people prefer ATi AA IQ, then they'll find no reason to like nV AA IQ with this chip. No improvements in quality, just speed.

[Richthofen]

i can live with that because i prefer NV method of a. filtering (application).
4x AA is enough for me. I will increase resolution and everything is just fine.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
If'n they don't improve their AA & AF performance for THIS card I just don't see them really competing. :(

Well performance will obviously increase for FSAA + AF due to the massive increase in bandwidth.

The quality of FSAA/AF is another matter entirely. I think everyone has said that FSAA quality will not be improved. So great, 4x FSAA will beat ATI in speed. But IMO it still won't be worth the added performance hit over 2x FSAA. Not to mention that ATI's 4x FSAA looks incredible compared to nvidia's.

[Hellbinder]

Anyways, as i (and other people) have said before, the NV35 really isn't going to be that much faster in low res, non AA situations. The NV30 already wins these over the ATi cards as it is.

You'll see some pretty big gains at higher resolutions though. NV35 will beat a 9800 Pro at 1600x1200 4x AA.

The problem with this statement is that Nvidias *big wins* in the lower resolutions stem from their 500mhz Overclocked core. Not anything special about the design. Other than they are always using their drivers to force lower Quality modes internally etc..

Nv35 is goring to be core clocked at about 400mhz. Thus its big lead in the lower resolutions goes bye bye. Its big gains are going to be in FSAA tests. Back in the day it was reported behind the scenes that the Nv35 would be clocked at 625/500. Which of course would have been a monster card that whoupped some booty. Unfortunately that has not panned out. Nv35 is going to ship at 400 Core and either 350, or 400ish DDR.

It also remains to be seen what ATi is going to release in May. I would not completely overlook the possability of a 400/460 9800pro from one of the partners.

[Geforce4ti4200]

looks like itll be identical to the fx5800 except a 256 bit ram bus, thats all they had the time for :( wouldnt doubt the radeon9800 256mb will eat that

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
looks like itll be identical to the fx5800 except a 256 bit ram bus, thats all they had the time for :( wouldnt doubt the radeon9800 256mb will eat that

Uttar's marketing spec he posted a while ago seemed to indicate more tweaks than that, so it might be not that it gets " eaten".

My guess it will be pretty close but the nv35 on top.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by zakelwe
My guess it will be pretty close but the nv35 on top.

Until you turn on AA or AF, in which case it'll get it's ass handed to it by the 9800 Pro refresh part. :)

The stalemate continues...

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Until you turn on AA or AF, in which case it'll get it's ass handed to it by the 9800 Pro refresh part. :)

The stalemate continues...

If it hands it it's ass then I assume the 9800 Pro refresh might get shat on ?

:)

Regards

Andy

[volt]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Nv35 is going to ship at 400 Core and either 350, or 400ish DDR.

I don't think so :cool:

[Sazar]

Originally posted by volt
I don't think so :cool:

enlighten us puhlease :cool: