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BronzeGod
04-04-08, 07:02 PM
Today was my reformat day, so I fired up Vista and SP1. Ran back to XP 64 in a real hurry because 60hz is unbearable. So ******* choppy. How the hell do some of you enjoy gaming at that refresh on an LCD? It's terrible! Even with Vsync ON it runs as smooth as rollerblades on a gravel road.

With that said, I went looking for solutions for refresh overrides. Sadly, after being out for so long, there is still no solution for custom refresh rates on Vista. And with 120hz LCD TVs becoming the norm these days, I foresee a world of pain for alot of people if this problem cannot be addressed.

Oh and if anyone comes in here lecturing me about the human eye and how LCDs don't have a refresh rate, they can go walk into an oncoming train. I've tested both 60 and 75 hz on my Samsung 226BW and there is a HUGE VISUAL difference from 60hz to 75hz. You go from gravel road to KY smoothness and there is no more ghosting at all. I also tested myself, I can tell the difference up to 100hz. Anything over 100hz is where it becomes indifferent to me.

AthlonXP1800
04-04-08, 07:17 PM
Well I had no problem with my LCDTV, all games ran fine without choppy & ghosting at 60Hz.

mailman2
04-04-08, 07:21 PM
Today was my reformat day, so I fired up Vista and SP1. Ran back to XP 64 in a real hurry because 60hz is unbearable. So ******* choppy. How the hell do some of you enjoy gaming at that refresh on an LCD? It's terrible! Even with Vsync ON it runs as smooth as rollerblades on a gravel road.

With that said, I went looking for solutions for refresh overrides. Sadly, after being out for so long, there is still no solution for custom refresh rates on Vista. And with 120hz LCD TVs becoming the norm these days, I foresee a world of pain for alot of people if this problem cannot be addressed.

Oh and if anyone comes in here lecturing me about the human eye and how LCDs don't have a refresh rate, they can go walk into an oncoming train. I've tested both 60 and 75 hz on my Samsung 226BW and there is a HUGE VISUAL difference from 60hz to 75hz. You go from gravel road to KY smoothness and there is no more ghosting at all. I also tested myself, I can tell the difference up to 100hz. Anything over 100hz is where it becomes indifferent to me.

Agreed. 60Hz despite what people say gives me a headache gaming. There is a difference.

BronzeGod
04-04-08, 07:51 PM
You may not notice if you are used to 60hz, but there is noticeable chop, looks like mousetrails whenever an image moves. Amp it up to 75hz, and you'll never go back. I can't wait for 120hz LCD monitors to come out. Vsync will be t3h sex then.

ViN86
04-04-08, 07:53 PM
my monitor only does 60Hz... and idk what youre talking about cause it looks fine to me. and i dont use vsync. :confused:

granted, a higher refresh rate is always nicer.

BronzeGod
04-04-08, 08:11 PM
I force it using a little bug that I found in the 169 drivers and Reforce, they ****ed up the bug in the 174 version so I can't force refresh rates anymore. My monitor says 60hz as well driverside but on the actual specs it's rated at 75hz and I managed to irk out 77hz maximum. You can say i overclocked my monitor sort of and this is the max stable. If you have a 2ms rated LCD, you should be able to hit the same refresh. Things look WAY better in the world of 77hz.

crainger
04-04-08, 08:53 PM
I always thought refresh rate made no difference on LCD what so ever...

BronzeGod
04-04-08, 08:56 PM
I always thought refresh rate made no difference on LCD what so ever...

Go check out one of the new 120hz LCD TV's you'll see what I mean lol.

mailman2
04-04-08, 09:14 PM
I always thought refresh rate made no difference on LCD what so ever...


yea, thats not true. Alot of people get headaches from 60hz, Im 1 of them. Some people believe there is no difference, there def is though.

crainger
04-04-08, 09:18 PM
Go check out one of the new 120hz LCD TV's you'll see what I mean lol.

True. Although that fluid motion is more than just a greater refresh rate, the TV uses all sort of tech to 'fill' in the gaps to show what appears to be a smooth picture. I myself can't stand the process, makes movies look like Behind the Scenes featurettes and adds more Blur. I turn it off on my TV, as most people serious about HT do. I can see it's uses for games though.

yea, thats not true. Alot of people get headaches from 60hz, Im 1 of them. Some people believe there is no difference, there def is though.

I get a huge headache from 60Hz on CRT, but I'm immune on LCD.

nekrosoft13
04-04-08, 09:37 PM
I always thought refresh rate made no difference on LCD what so ever...

yap, is just bologna that was passed on from CRT.

BronzeGod
04-04-08, 09:45 PM
If it's such bologna then give it a try. It's not like I'm talking out of my ass you know. I'm just spreading the happiness that I've discovered to others that don't know about it. Just ask Sammy Sung, I walked him through the trick and made him a believer. The visual difference is incredible.


This is for the haters, an article on the advancement of the newer LCD screens and WHY the refresh rates on LCDs are being cranked up:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129399/article.html



Even if you bought a TV in the last several months you may already feel like it's out of date. Your shiny new flat-screen arrives, you hook it up to the antenna and the first thing you see is a commercial for a bigger, better model. It might even have a cheaper price. It's the way things seem to work these days in the world of TVs.

Things aren't likely to change any time soon. The latest buzz is around "100Hz" or "120Hz" technology, which relates to how often the image on the screen is refreshed or redrawn. The technology is already appearing in TVs, and if you haven't seen promotional stickers for it yet you probably will soon.

Most TV sets today refresh the picture either 50 times per second (50Hz) or 60 times per second (60Hz) depending where in the world you live (different regions use different color formatting.) That rate is fine for most images, but when it comes to fast moving shows like sports events the images can appear blurry on an LCD (liquid crystal display) TV. Doubling the rate at which images are displayed, to 100 or 120 frames per second, makes for a better, more high-definition picture.

The need to improve LCD TVs has been especially acute because their chief competitor, PDP (plasma display panel) TVs, don't have the same blurring problem. Compounding the issue is that screen sizes are getting bigger, so any imperfections are more noticeable, said Mina Naito, a spokeswoman for Sony Corp.

PDP makers have trumpeted their advantage for some time, but things may be about to change. Compared to previous LCD panels, the new 100Hz and 120Hz models are "a big improvement," said Hisakazu Torii, a TV industry analyst with DisplaySearch in Tokyo.

Prototype panels with the faster refresh rate began appearing last year. At the FPD International 2006 show in Yokohama in October, Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. demonstrated images and text scrolling across just such a panel, and they appeared to move more smoothly than on existing LCD TVs.

Then at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Sony Corp. announced a 120Hz model with the Samsung screen for the U.S. market. The 70-inch LCD TV is launched this month and carries the hefty price of US$33,000.

Samsung plans a 70-inch set, also based on the Samsung panel, which will go on sale in the first half of this year. Competitors including Victor Co. of Japan Ltd. (JVC) and Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (Panasonic) are also promoting 120Hz sets in Japan.

The latest company to join the party is Sharp Corp., which last week said it would put five sets in its Aquos range on sale in Japan from March. The price runs from 500,000 for a 42-inch model to 1 million for a 65-inch model.

mailman2
04-04-08, 11:08 PM
yap, is just bologna that was passed on from CRT.


Thats so untrue. Alot of people don't notice 60Hz on an LCD. But for those of us that are sensitive to it I get migraines from low refresh rates. At work on CRTs I have to set it to 70Hz or higher, on LCDs same thing I cannot run 60Hz without getting a headache. So when I sit down at a PC running 60Hz I know it immediately I start to get a pressure behind my eyes and a headache within 20 minutes or so. This is something even you cannot deny.

People always say there is no difference, but thats BS I've had some killer migraines from working with LCDs at 60Hz.

crainger
04-04-08, 11:58 PM
Ask any racer, any real racer, it's not if you win...

Wait wrong speech.

Ask any real HT buff and they will tell you this new 100Hz/120Hz fluid motion stuff is garbage and better off turned off.

I have it on my TV, and I turned if off right away, makes a very unnatural picture. It's simply the latest gimmick like FullHD.

http://shepherdsons.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/hd-ruins-movies-120hz-1080p-fake/

I was at Circuit City the other day picking up a print cartridge when I decided to look at some of the newer TVs. I’m interested in getting a 46″+ LCD/Plasma later this year to replace my 32″ LCD and I wanted to see what the current selection was. They had Pirates of the Caribbean 3 on Blu-ray playing on one of Samsung’s 120hz LCDs. I decided to sit down and check it out.

This is where too much of a good thing comes into play. I can’t tell if it was that TV, the player itself, or the movie, but, though it looked like we were there (the clarity reminded me of Rudy Maxxa’s show on PBS in terms of “realness”)… you could also tell it was a movie… that the people weren’t really dirty, that their props were all fake, and that the backdrops looked put together. The immersive experience from the theatre could no longer be brought home. It was ruined for me. HD completely ruined the movie.

There’s no way I can accurately describe what I saw. I wish there were other movies I could’ve seen with this same technology (120hz+1080P), but there was nothing else playing on the floor, besides a Transformers DVD. I was disappointed, not because of the HD experience, but because of the faults, technical limitations, and falsities revealed by it. The special effects looked fake, the costumes looked fake, the swords and other props looked fake, and none of the actors looked like they actually belonged in the roles… even though none of this stood out when I watched the DVD at home on my upconverting DVD player. If this is the future, then HD Will ruin movies for me… at least some of them.

j0j081
04-05-08, 12:11 AM
I hope you know that if you run an lcd like the 226bw at 75hz it ends up skipping 1 out of every 5 frames rendered by the graphics card. I'll have to find the explanation as to why it does this but someone went into detail at hardforum and others confirmed it.

nekrosoft13
04-05-08, 12:13 AM
Ask any racer, any real racer, it's not if you win...

Wait wrong speech.

Ask any real HT buff and they will tell you this new 100Hz/120Hz fluid motion stuff is garbage and better off turned off.

I have it on my TV, and I turned if off right away, makes a very unnatural picture. It's simply the latest gimmick like FullHD.

http://shepherdsons.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/hd-ruins-movies-120hz-1080p-fake/

crainger doesn't believe in the power of marketing :thumbdwn:

crainger
04-05-08, 12:19 AM
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9652/consumered4.jpg

jcrox
04-05-08, 12:42 AM
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9652/consumered4.jpg


I don't know about you being the consumer kind but.....

BronzeGod
04-05-08, 12:58 AM
Even if it is skipping frames or whatever, the movement is by FAR more fluid than 60hz. Sometimes seeing says more than an article. And I can tell you from seeing, i'm never going back to 60hz

mailman2
04-05-08, 01:00 AM
I hope you know that if you run an lcd like the 226bw at 75hz it ends up skipping 1 out of every 5 frames rendered by the graphics card. I'll have to find the explanation as to why it does this but someone went into detail at hardforum and others confirmed it.

Maybe with vsync enabled.
Honestly I could care less I dont get migraines with it forced to 75Hz and thats all that matters to me. You can say it doesn't matter, but it does to someone like me.

BronzeGod
04-05-08, 01:18 AM
When vsync is enabled on 75hz, games are pure bliss to play. Especially when they stay consistent with the framerate. In fact, it would start becoming comparable to a CRT in fluidity.

ViN86
04-05-08, 02:34 PM
Thats so untrue. Alot of people don't notice 60Hz on an LCD. But for those of us that are sensitive to it I get migraines from low refresh rates. At work on CRTs I have to set it to 70Hz or higher, on LCDs same thing I cannot run 60Hz without getting a headache. So when I sit down at a PC running 60Hz I know it immediately I start to get a pressure behind my eyes and a headache within 20 minutes or so. This is something even you cannot deny.

People always say there is no difference, but thats BS I've had some killer migraines from working with LCDs at 60Hz.
idk how you get a headache on an LCD... i agree that i would get kind of dizzy and my eyes would hurt from 60Hz on a CRT, but with LCD's, ive never noticed the refresh rate at all.

mailman2
04-05-08, 02:57 PM
idk how you get a headache on an LCD... i agree that i would get kind of dizzy and my eyes would hurt from 60Hz on a CRT, but with LCD's, ive never noticed the refresh rate at all.


I get that same feeling on an LCD in a game at 60Hz even on the DVI port. I get pressure behind my eyes, dizzy, nauseus feeling too within a few mins. Imagine that feeling you got from a CRT everytime you sat down at a widescreen LCD too. Thats what I get... :thumbdwn:

I know immediately if a monitor is at 60Hz LCD or CRT lol.

mullet
04-05-08, 03:30 PM
60Hz + 1680x1050 + Vsync = smooth as buttahhhh. DONE

BronzeGod
04-05-08, 03:39 PM
60Hz + 1680x1050 + Vsync = smooth as buttahhhh. DONE

try that @ 75hz (nana2)