ATI 4800 series rumors

[duffy_chucky]

whoot that **** ? :headexplode:
the same old design with tiny wings ? make a lot a noise :thumbdwn:

why some entry card should have better fan ? make us buy some expensive 3rd party cooler yeah :D . i dont' play their games.

[K007]

24xCFAA?....Sounds like the option is there..but performance is gonna be craptastic...

[Ninja Prime]

24xCFAA?....Sounds like the option is there..but performance is gonna be craptastic...

Depends on how it works, really. If its a shader AA mode, then it probably wont be too bad, and if its not, it really depends on the way its sampled. I would guess it works like Nvidias 16x mode that only uses 4x "real" samples, but uses ATI's 6x mode wiht 6 "real" samples instead. That wouldn't be too bad either.

I doubt it would be 24 real samples, that would have total crap performance, thought it would probably look nice.

[K007]

Depends on how it works, really. If its a shader AA mode, then it probably wont be too bad, and if its not, it really depends on the way its sampled. I would guess it works like Nvidias 16x mode that only uses 4x "real" samples, but uses ATI's 6x mode wiht 6 "real" samples instead. That wouldn't be too bad either.

I doubt it would be 24 real samples, that would have total crap performance, thought it would probably look nice.


Will need a really big ass monitor though...and then...at high ress and big monitor..i would still think 4xAA is...more than enough....

Its nice for screenshots i guess...but can be an overkill..of course if its free as in performance of 4x then yea go for it..

[hell_of_doom227]

These cards are joke...

[Toss3]

These cards are joke...
How so? There are absolutely no games in need of more performance other than maybe Crysis and these cards will give you the best bang for the buck. Nvidia's die size and crappy yields add up to a very very expensive card that only a few of us could afford. Even the gt260 is going to cost a fortune and only be a little faster than the rv770xt(only guessing here).

I'm saying ati ftw right now! 7.1 sound via hdmi is also not too shabby if you use your pc as a htpc. :) Remember the radeon 8500?

In early 2002, to compete with the cheaper GeForce 3 Ti200 and GeForce 4 MX 460, ATI launched the slower-clocked 8500LE (later rename as 9100) which became popular with OEMs and enthusiasts due to its lower price, and overclockability to 8500 levels. Though the GeForce 4 Ti 4600 took the performance crown, it was a top line solution that was priced almost double that of the Radeon 8500 (MSRP of $350-399 versus $199 USD), so it didn't offer direct competition. With the delayed release of the potentially competitive GeForce 4 Ti 4200, plus ATI's initiative in rolling out 128 MiB versions of the 8500/LE kept the R200 line popular among the mid-high performance niche market. The greater features of the All-In-Wonder (AIW) Radeon 8500 DV and the AIW Radeon 8500 128 MB proved superior to Nvidia's Personal Cinema equivalents which used the faster GeForce 4 Ti 4200.

[Amaury]

we need faster dx10 hardware so there's more dx10 games that run smooth. dx9 runs faster than dx10 for the most part on current dx10 hardware. Is dx10.1 the fix for slower dx10 performance. I say dump dx10 and start refresh with dx11.

[Ninja Prime]

Is dx10.1 the fix for slower dx10 performance.

Actually from what I've seen it sort of is. Theres a lot of stuff that takes 2 passes and more effort on DX10 that can be done easier and in one pass on DX10.1.

[AthlonXP1800]

4870X2 will cost $499, it wont be compete with GTX 280 but GTX 260. Nvidia have the advantage of a cheaper GTX 260 for $449.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37720/135/

[Revs]

Not 100% but I think they mean it'll compete price wise, not performance wise. From what i've seen the rumors suggest the X2 will be similar or faster than the GTX280.

Obviously benchmarks are required before anything is confirmed though.

[simmonmsi]

These cards are joke...


Yeah because there are so many benchmarks etc released that show what they can do right? :rolleyes:

[ServerTweak]

Not 100% but I think they mean it'll compete price wise, not performance wise. From what i've seen the rumors suggest the X2 will be similar or faster than the GTX280.

Obviously benchmarks are required before anything is confirmed though.

agreed, I'm more an ATI fan but I like to have the fastest. These days the war between ATI and Geforce hummm I think is time to wait for the dust to clear up a bit before i but another card. I just bought 3870 x2 and (3) 9800 x2 for 3way sli, already they coming out with faster cards.

[Ninja Prime]

Heres the first confirmed "real world" performance estimates I've seen, but they are slides from Nivida so take it with a grain of salt, they used older drivers(Cat 8.3, current drivers are Cat 8.5) for the ATI card and specific resolutions/AA levels that makes them look good:

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/GeForce_GTX_280_%26_GTX_260_Gaming_Performance/5817.html

The GTX 280 seems to average about 80% faster than a 3870x2 in their slides, doing better or worse depending on the game. I think that puts it about 30-40% faster than a current 9800gx2, on average. This could be considered peak possible compareable benchmark performance, because of the way companies put these slides out.

If we had more solid numbers on the 4870 we could compare them effectively, but all we have are guesses and raw numbers at the moment.

[AthlonXP1800]

We all know the 4870 performance is about on par with 3870X2 and the 4870X2 twice faster than 3870X2. If the Nvidia slide is accurate with latest Nvidia and ATI driver then the 4870X2 could be beat GTX 260 in FEAR. It clear 4870X2's competitor is GTX 260, not GTX 280.

[Ninja Prime]

We all know the 4870 performance is about on par with 3870X2 and the 4870X2 twice faster than 3870X2. If the Nvidia slide is accurate with latest Nvidia and ATI driver then the 4870X2 could be beat GTX 260 in FEAR. It clear 4870X2's competitor is GTX 260, not GTX 280.

Ahh we all know this because we have actual benchmarks, right? Wrong.

The raw numbers alone put a single 4870 at about 110% faster than a 3870x2. With ATI's x2 cards getting 96% scaling, that puts a 4870x2 ahead of or on par with a GTX 280 in nearly everything on there. Remember, this is using old driver on the ATI card, which Cat 8.5 increased World in Conflict framerates by around 20% and Call of Juarez framerates by about 10%.

Assuming 210% of a 3870x2's performance with real drivers/Cat 8.5, a 4870x2 would stack up like this vs the GTX 280, using those slides:

Vantage: Slight lead for GTX 280.
Crysis: 4870x2 wins.
Oblivion: 4870x2 wins.
CoD4: 4870x2 wins.
Call of Juarez: Slight lead for the GTX 280.
CoH: 4870x2 wins.
Quake Wars: 4870x2 wins.
FEAR: 4870x2 wins.
UT3: 4870x2 wins.
World in Conflict: Tie.

So, 2 wins for the GTX 280 and 6 wins for the 4870x2, and one tie. Remember, this is using Nvidias own slides that are designed to show their cards in the best possible situation.

Again, this is all assumptions, as we dont really have benchmarks yet.

Edit: LOL, I see what you've done there athlon, you read the bar graph wrong. Look at the left and see the numbers, the graph is a PR streched version, the actual numbers to the right tell a different story. ;)

[mtl]

Real world benchies please. Nvidia's best will continue to beat ATI because ATI still uses the same flawed architecture from the 2900 xt. Nvidia's new shaders are much improved and they have many other substantial innovations, and they can afford to pour hundreds of millions into developing new tech.
Nvidia fans will be very happy with the 280.
Ati fanboys will once again be forced to find some other reason
when we all know what everyone here wants is the PERFORMANCE CHAMP!

[Viral]

We all know the 4870 performance is about on par with 3870X2 and the 4870X2 twice faster than 3870X2. If the Nvidia slide is accurate with latest Nvidia and ATI driver then the 4870X2 could be beat GTX 260 in FEAR. It clear 4870X2's competitor is GTX 260, not GTX 280.

Way to get sucked into the PR graph. OMG! GTX 280 is over 7 times faster in COJ and World in Conflict! AMZING!

I really can't stand graphs like that, and anyone who likes fair comparisons will agree. Luckily though, I don't miss things that obvious. Too bad the majority of mainstream review readers do.

Oh, and it has clearly been stated that this was NOT using the latest ATI drivers. Selective reading much?

[Razor1]

doesn't matter what drivers are being used, the x2 won't go up against the 280 ;)

[Redeemed]

doesn't matter what drivers are being used, the x2 won't go up against the 280 ;)
I find it disgusting that people say such things when they have zero evidence to back it up. And people claim that I'm a fanboy... :rolleyes:

[mtl]

What I find disgusting is all the FUD put out by ATI's marketing department the last couple of years. From products that underperform to driver claims that don't test out.If they would lower the hype a little I'd like them more.


Overall the Catalyst 8.5 drivers don't seem like a huge step up in performance.http://www.amdzone.com/index.php/reviews/61/9658-ati-85-catalyst-performance-review?start=2

[Xion X2]

As much as I'd like ATI to get back into the game, Razor's probably calling it right. I thought he was wrong with last-gen when he kept spouting off about how 2900XT would never improve on future drivers and get close to GTX, and he was pretty much dead-on months in advance.

He can be really persistent with his opinions (too much so, I think,) but I'll give him credit for being right about last-gen.

I just don't see why any one of us should believe that Nvidia won't win hands-down in performance again this round. ATI is still hanging onto an architecture that proved to be seriously flawed last-gen, and Nvidia is improving upon an architecture that already dominated last-gen.

Maybe things aren't set in stone quite yet, but chances are you're going to see more of the same for the next year or so.

[Redeemed]

As much as I'd like ATI to get back into the game, Razor's probably calling it right. I thought he was wrong with last-gen when he kept spouting off about how 2900XT would never improve on future drivers and get close to GTX, and he was pretty much dead-on months in advance.

He can be really persistent with his opinions (too much so, I think,) but I'll give him credit for being right about last-gen.

I just don't see why any one of us should believe that Nvidia won't win hands-down in performance again this round. ATI is still hanging onto an architecture that proved to be seriously flawed last-gen, and Nvidia is improving upon an architecture that already dominated last-gen.

Maybe things aren't set in stone quite yet, but chances are you're going to see more of the same for the next year or so.

I've never denied that nVidia might win hands down this time... performance wise. In fact, I've been stating for the longest time that AMD's only hope of being competitive is price/performance wise. They *need* to forget about the high-end, let nVidia and Intel have that crown. If they can offer better performance per dollar in the mid-stream and low-end segments then they'll regain a lot of what they lost over these past couple years.

My predicition is the 4870X2 will at best tie the GTX280, but I'm also betting that ATi's entire lineup will be priced $100+ lower than nVidia's comparable performing counter-parts. Why? With how horrible nVidia's yields are with the GT200 this chip is costing them a very pretty penny to produce, and they've got to recover those costs somehow. As always it'll get passed onto the consumer. Now, the refresh of the GT200 is where it'll probably be at for nVidia, IMO. They'll get drastically better yields, require less power, generate less heat, and thus cost less. But untill that refressh, ATi will probably be the more cost-effective purchase. Not the fastest solution, but I'm pretty confident the 4800 series will be considerably less expensive than the GT200 parts.

Now let's just see if this holds true. :o

[Xion X2]

I've never denied that nVidia might win hands down this time... performance wise.
Why would you have a problem w/ Razor saying so, then?

I agree with the rest of your last post, though.

[walterman]

RV770 won’t do FSAA through Shader

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7625&Itemid=1

Pre-Computex 08: They will do it the right way

We've learned that RV770XT and Pro won't do Full Scene Anti Aliasing via Shaders. Developers hated it but RV670's design flaw was responsible for it.

RV770XT and PRO will end up significantly faster, especially with FSAA compared to RV670 generation. The numbers should be higher than you usually see from generation to generation, but we don’t know more details about it at press time.

RV670 was improved and fixed R600, or should we say R600 done right, whereas RV770 is an improvement of the stuff that ATI has implemented.

[Redeemed]

Why would you have a problem w/ Razor saying so, then?

I agree with the rest of your last post, though.
It's not so much what he said, but how it came across. It seems popular now days to just bash AMD and ATi, and that's what I have a problem with. Guess I might have come off a bit too harsh though. :o My apologies Razor.