View Full Version : ATI 4800 series rumors
Ninja Prime
06-01-08, 06:27 PM
ATI is still hanging onto an architecture that proved to be seriously flawed last-gen, and Nvidia is improving upon an architecture that already dominated last-gen.
I donno, I'd almost see it the other way around. All the info I've seen seems to say that ATI has finally tweaked their design right and have made several serious alterations to their design, whereas the GTX 280 seems to be just a 8800gtx with more ROPs and more shaders. Granted, its a LOT more shaders, but still, nothing new seems to have been added, that I've seen.
I find it disgusting that people say such things when they have zero evidence to back it up. And people claim that I'm a fanboy... :rolleyes:
well funny you say that, trust me it won't, if ya want to take this up, lets try this, in all certainty the x2 won't go against the 280. Keep this in mind 250% over then ultra and 50% over the gx2 in most situations. Also the x2 is going to be hamstringed in some ways campaired to the nV cards. Not to mention it uses more wattage then the 280! and performance is around 10-20% less. I will qoute you in my sig if ya like and we can go back to this when the cards come out?
Ninja Prime
06-01-08, 07:22 PM
well funny you say that, trust me it won't, if ya want to take this up, lets try this, in all certainty the x2 won't go against the 280. Keep this in mind 250% over then ultra and 50% over the gx2 in most situations. Also the x2 is going to be hamstringed in some ways campaired to the nV cards. Not to mention it uses more wattage then the 280! and performance is around 10-20% less. I will qoute you in my sig if ya like and we can go back to this when the cards come out?
I'll take that bet. I dont see any way it can be 250% over a 8800 ultra "in most situations", unless its something where the drivers are broken on the 8800. You do realize 250% is 3.5 times, right?
Xion X2
06-01-08, 07:31 PM
As for ATI adjusting its architecture, the only major thing they changed was moving AA out of the shaders. This will improve things, but it's not going to be some grand leap in performance.
RV770 HDMI supports AC3 and DTS audio
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7626&Itemid=34
Pre-Computex 08: 8 channel
We have just confirmed that ATI HD4800 series powered by RV770 chips will support 7.1 surround sound audio with AC3 and DTS and the new cards will be able to drive HD video and 8 channel audio via single HDMI cable.
The RV770 based cards will use DVI-I to HDMI adaptor and the reference design of RV770XT and PRO includes two DVI outs. At same time RV770 / HD 4800 generation won’t have any issues supporting DisplayPort but this is a matter of a partner choice as DisplayPort is still not that important or accepted.
The possibility is there and display manufactures do plan to embrace this new connector.
The new RV770 chip also supports xyYCC color.
I'll take that bet. I dont see any way it can be 250% over a 8800 ultra "in most situations", unless its something where the drivers are broken on the 8800. You do realize 250% is 3.5 times, right?
250% as in 2.5 times faster, not 350% if I stated additionally 250% on top of the the ultra then that would 350%, is what you are stating.
As far as yeilds I wouldn't put too much stock in what Charlie has been saying ;)
The performance of the new nV cards is akin to what happened with the g71 to the g80. This time ATi is in a bit better of a position, because of no delays, but if the price war at the top end they don't have much play here because if we start looking at the PCi-e chip they are using its very expensive and it actually evens out the BOM of the two cards.
CJ, and me stated similiar performance figures for the rv770, I stated 10-15% higher then the 9800gtx for the engineering sample of the rv770 which is around the pro level of performance, CJ stated 25% faster then the 9800gtx for the rv770xt, even you have double the performance for the x2 (100%) scaling it won't match the 280 gtx.
Ninja Prime
06-01-08, 09:50 PM
250% as in 2.5 times faster, not 350% if I stated additionally 250% on top of the the ultra then that would 350%, is what you are stating.
As far as yeilds I wouldn't put too much stock in what Charlie has been saying ;)
The performance of the new nV cards is akin to what happened with the g71 to the g80. This time ATi is in a bit better of a position, because of no delays, but if the price war at the top end they don't have much play here because if we start looking at the PCi-e chip they are using its very expensive and it actually evens out the BOM of the two cards.
CJ, and me stated similiar performance figures for the rv770, I stated 10-15% higher then the 9800gtx for the engineering sample of the rv770 which is around the pro level of performance, CJ stated 25% faster then the 9800gtx for the rv770xt, even you have double the performance for the x2 (100%) scaling it won't match the 280 gtx.
Hmm... maybe. GTX 280 is supposed to have 80 TMU's, so in a absolutely TMU limited situation it might come close to that, though it still has a lower clock. However, 8800gtx vs 9800gtx has the same situation, with the 9800gtx having twice as many TMU's and you dont ever see it getting twice the performance.
I'm gonna bookmark this for June 17th. ;)
Lfctony
06-02-08, 01:04 AM
250% as in 2.5 times faster, not 350% if I stated additionally 250% on top of the the ultra then that would 350%, is what you are stating.
As far as yeilds I wouldn't put too much stock in what Charlie has been saying ;)
The performance of the new nV cards is akin to what happened with the g71 to the g80. This time ATi is in a bit better of a position, because of no delays, but if the price war at the top end they don't have much play here because if we start looking at the PCi-e chip they are using its very expensive and it actually evens out the BOM of the two cards.
CJ, and me stated similiar performance figures for the rv770, I stated 10-15% higher then the 9800gtx for the engineering sample of the rv770 which is around the pro level of performance, CJ stated 25% faster then the 9800gtx for the rv770xt, even you have double the performance for the x2 (100%) scaling it won't match the 280 gtx.
You guys should really stick to one way of telling the performance increase or another. In the same sentence, you say 250% over/faster and 50% faster, yet you used 2 different meanings/methods. Now, as I see it Card 1 = 100%, Card 2 = 350% and Card 3 = 150% OR Card 1 = 100%, Card 2 = 250% and Card 3 = 50% . But you meant neither. That's based on what you said. 250% over something makes the new something be at 350% TOTAL. Just as in the same sentence you said 50% over something else meaning 150% TOTAL. You people should sort your grammar, way of talking percentages, whatever. Just comment on the additional speed using a percentage of the original speed. 50% faster does not equal 150% faster... 50% faster equals 1.5 total, 150% faster means 2.5 total. That's how it should be interpreted...
Keep this in mind 250% over then ultra and 50% over the gx2 in most situations.
We have just confirmed that ATI HD4800 series powered by RV770 chips will support 7.1 surround sound audio with AC3 and DTS and the new cards will be able to drive HD video and 8 channel audio via single HDMI cable.
From what I understand, this is actually Realtek ALC885 (onboard audio) on a GPU. Realtek has a driver for it on their website as well.
fivefeet8
06-02-08, 02:02 AM
whereas the GTX 280 seems to be just a 8800gtx with more ROPs and more shaders. Granted, its a LOT more shaders, but still, nothing new seems to have been added, that I've seen.
Although I don't believe that for a second, considering the tweaks done between the G8x and G9x revisions, the G8x architecture has more than proven it's effectiveness. Having a G8x with 512bit 1 gig memory and 240 shaders with 32 ROPs would still be quite a monster performer by itself. Add on the tweaks done to the ROPs and Shaders and you simply add more performance on top of that.
The RV770 by it's base architecture(R6xx) will likely have a bit more tweaks from it's older brethren, but then again, it needed it more anyways.
Lfctony
06-02-08, 02:23 AM
As I see it, unless the R700 works perfectly (perfect scaling, no stuttering issues, no strange FPS dips) I'm definitely going for the GTX 280. Even if the charts are from NV, if the difference is that big vs a 3870x2 which is faster than my current 8800GTX, I'm looking at a 100% improvement. Pretty decent in my book.
You guys should really stick to one way of telling the performance increase or another. In the same sentence, you say 250% over/faster and 50% faster, yet you used 2 different meanings/methods. Now, as I see it Card 1 = 100%, Card 2 = 350% and Card 3 = 150% OR Card 1 = 100%, Card 2 = 250% and Card 3 = 50% . But you meant neither. That's based on what you said. 250% over something makes the new something be at 350% TOTAL. Just as in the same sentence you said 50% over something else meaning 150% TOTAL. You people should sort your grammar, way of talking percentages, whatever. Just comment on the additional speed using a percentage of the original speed. 50% faster does not equal 150% faster... 50% faster equals 1.5 total, 150% faster means 2.5 total. That's how it should be interpreted...
yeah noticed that afterwards but the forums were down so I couldn't change it;)
PC Parter starts mass production of Radeon HD 4850 2008-6-3 19:55:16PC Parter starts mass production of Radeon HD 4850
We are told that PC Partner, the VIP in AIBs, now starts mass production of Radeon HD 4850 GDDR3 Graphics Cards for AMD and ATI. These Graphics Cards are prepared for the RV770 launch in June 15.
As we know, AMD can get enough bulks of Radeon HD 4850 GDDR3 Graphics Cards for the hard launch at June 15 world widely.
We already know, Radeon HD 4850 GDDR3 graphics, with AMD's own Spider quad-core platform and beta version of Catalyst driver, it got P64xx in
3DMark Vantage test.
source
(http://www.pczilla.net/en/post/30.html)
LordJuanlo
06-08-08, 05:53 AM
Nordic Hardware (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html) say Radeon 4850 and 4870 won't have 480 shader processors, but 800. With a clock of 750 Mhz, Radeon 4870 will have 1.2 Tflops
http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5215
Nordic Hardware (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html) say Radeon 4850 and 4870 won't have 480 shader processors, but 800. With a clock of 750 Mhz, Radeon 4870 will have 1.2 Tflops
http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5215
Interesting.
Wow, wasn't expecting that. I hope it's true and actually translates into better performance. If the performance is still what we've been expecting, then it may not be such a good thing if you think about it.
Lfctony
06-08-08, 07:33 AM
Wow, wasn't expecting that. I hope it's true and actually translates into better performance. If the performance is still what we've been expecting, then it may not be such a good thing if you think about it.
Well, given that the 3870 had around 50% more GFLOPS performance (345 vs 496) than the 8800GTX but only half the actual game performance, I think it means jack ****! :)
Actually it looks fake, looking at it more in depth. Looking at other similar AMD slides, like this one:
http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/406/flops_comparison.gif
Besides the obvious massive amount of JPEG compression on the new slide, the font is different, and note the alternating grey and white lines, which on this new graph the two 3870's make for two white rows in concession.
Doesn't mean it's fake at all, but I'm not convinced yet.
There was also speculation in the past that the extra 320SP's were for physics processing to compete with nVidias CUDA.
Last we heard, RV770 has 480 shader processors, not 800, but there are also some stories going around that there might be some substance to the rumors of RV770 having 800 shader processors. Only 480 of them would be for the graphics though, while the remaining 320 is for physics. We can't confirm this so take it with a pinch of salt.
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7755.html
Nordic Hardware (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html) say Radeon 4850 and 4870 won't have 480 shader processors, but 800. With a clock of 750 Mhz, Radeon 4870 will have 1.2 Tflops
http://www.nordichardware.com/image3.php?id=5215
WOW 800 SPU's! that change things quite a bit!
This also isn't matching up with the fact that RV770 supposedly has a separate shader clock of over 1GHz as apposed to clocking shaders at the same speed as the core..
The truth will be out shortly and put all the FUD to rest, thank goodness.
This also isn't matching up with the fact that RV770 supposedly has a separate shader clock of over 1GHz as apposed to clocking shaders at the same speed as the core..
Just read your notes above .. i guess you have a point there. will see about that ..
WOW 800 SPU's! that change things quite a bit!
Already been confirmed that the 4870 has 480 SPUs. :)
Already been confirmed that the 4870 has 480 SPUs. :)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1675477&postcount=118
Yeah most likely the 800 figure came from 480 SPU's for shading + 320 for physics ..
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1675477&postcount=118
Yeah most likely the 800 figure came from 480 SPU's for shading + 320 for physics ..
Hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of those useless physics processing units and use them for shading instead..
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