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Kain
05-04-03, 01:56 PM
Which, in your opinion, is the better graphics card?

John Reynolds
05-04-03, 02:04 PM
While the 9700 Pro is going to cost more, if you use AA and/or AF it's well worth the price difference. In fact, the 9700 Pro is the single largest improvement over its previous generation the 3D graphics market has seen in the past five years.

Price differences aside, the simply is no comparing the two.

Typedef Enum
05-04-03, 02:07 PM
nVidia's marketing department must have been doing some serious shi* the last 12 months while waiting to deliver new products.

No offense, but there simply is comparison between a GeForce4-class product and a 9700/9800. Heck, my opinion holds true even with the FX products as well.

Kain
05-04-03, 02:07 PM
So, the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro is the better graphics card?

How much would I "lose" by getting an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro instead of an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro?

Typedef Enum
05-04-03, 03:12 PM
I have a 9800 Pro, and used a 9700 after they were first released for a short period of time. A lot has changed since then though.

The big thing is factoring the ability to clock the crap out of a 9800 Pro...but it depends on whether or not it's worth it to you or not.

If you're on a rather tight budget, you might want to look into getting an OEM 9700 Pro online. If you want to go retail, you can find the 9700's for $299. I bought my 9800 Pro for $399 at Best Buy.

CaptNKILL
05-04-03, 04:10 PM
Ok, no offense, but if you have to ask a question like this you REALLY need to do some research on your own! Here are some sites you should go to before posting 15 "which is better" threads at a forum:

www.tomshardware.com
www.anandtech.com
www.hardocp.com

Just to name a few. Im not trying to be a troll, but you really should try to learn SOMETHING on your own before asking a million questions.
:tongue2:

muzz
05-04-03, 04:23 PM
There really is nothing to compare except price.... the 9700p wins hands down ( as JR said, and the price difference is worth it IF you are going to use the card to it's ability... if reading emails is your thing, then save your cash).

Thats as simple as it gets really.

marcocom
05-04-03, 05:01 PM
welcome to our nvidia enthusiast forum.


and no...its not quite as simple as these people wish it were.

9700Pro is the better option if your into DirectX games and if your into Window-only computing. The card's OEM build is the value of the summer and is highly recommended for most users.

but the card has issues. your biting off alot if your not too familiar with driver swapping and if your one of the...oh what is it now...2billion HalfLife players out there, its a bumpy road that is easy to traverse for many of us , but not all of us. The SoftQuadro hack can also provide you with two great sides of both worlds, if your one of the many users that utilizes their computer for 3d creation.

its about the kind of computing you are into that dictates the better buy. especially when the nvidia option can be purchased RETAIL with FULL WARRANTY for alot less, and that might be something your into as well.

its pretty elementary that the R3x00 performs better in benchmarks, maybe thats what your into.

its a good buy...but again..its not that simple unless your a fuking ATi fanboy.

(the following flames, rhetoric, useless advice and friendly forum trolls can also be enjoyed at www.rage3d.com for your reading pleasure.)

welcome to nvnews

RobHague
05-04-03, 05:26 PM
Yeah ive never seen so many NVIDIA enthusiast's in one place at one time... lol.... oh wait i have. Im starting to think Rage3D has more "pro-nvidia" peeps than NVnews latley lol. :angel:

Typedef Enum
05-04-03, 06:14 PM
Here's the bottom line...

Don't let _anybody_ convince you that a NV2x class chip can remotely compare with _anything_ the R3xx class chip brings to the table.

If you're unfamiliar with those terms, any GeForce3/4 class chip (except the GF4 MX's) qualify as NV2x, and the 9500/9600/9700/9800 qualify as R3xx.

I don't care if you're talking about Image Quality, bottom-line performance, DX9 features, etc. There's absolutely nothing that the NV2x class can do to compare, save things like Linux support (which ATI is supposedly going to address in the next few weeks).

My response is, in part, looking @ where this guy is coming from, and how I envision him using the card.

RobHague
05-04-03, 06:42 PM
Urmm think you are being a tad cynical there Typedef Enum about the Radeon. Sure it beats the Ti4800 but then there are other things to consider other than AA/AF performance.

When you say "there is absolutly nothing the NV2x class can do to compare" you are going way too far. Yes the 9700 is of course a lot faster but if you take a look at...

http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-04.html
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-05.html
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-06.html

I would say at lower resolutions the Ti4600 is comparing very well. But then if your monitor can only display 1024x768 (lots of 15" TFT owners out there) then why would you give a ****e about what FPS you get at 1152x when your hardware cant display that res?

Also linux support for ATI?? *GASP* God they havent even sorted out their windows drivers prolly yet. This is going to be funny. :lol:

jAkUp
05-04-03, 06:45 PM
yes its almost a guarntee that when ati has linux support... it will be very buggy for the first few revisions

muzz
05-04-03, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by marcocom
welcome to our nvidia enthusiast forum.


and no...its not quite as simple as these people wish it were.

9700Pro is the better option if your into DirectX games and if your into Window-only computing. The card's OEM build is the value of the summer and is highly recommended for most users.

but the card has issues. your biting off alot if your not too familiar with driver swapping and if your one of the...oh what is it now...2billion HalfLife players out there, its a bumpy road that is easy to traverse for many of us , but not all of us. The SoftQuadro hack can also provide you with two great sides of both worlds, if your one of the many users that utilizes their computer for 3d creation.

its about the kind of computing you are into that dictates the better buy. especially when the nvidia option can be purchased RETAIL with FULL WARRANTY for alot less, and that might be something your into as well.

its pretty elementary that the R3x00 performs better in benchmarks, maybe thats what your into.

its a good buy...but again..its not that simple unless your a fuking ATi fanboy.

(the following flames, rhetoric, useless advice and friendly forum trolls can also be enjoyed at www.rage3d.com for your reading pleasure.)

welcome to nvnews

Knock it off marco.......

muzz
05-04-03, 06:58 PM
If you are implying that a 4800 is the equal to a 9700p you really need a cold shower.... and IM SORRY if YOUR FEELINGS were hurt, but unless you have something useful to say, please say nothing at all, as what you just said is jibberish.. as usual.
At least let somone say the 5800Ultra B4 you start that common ( for U) bs.

Steppy
05-04-03, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by marcocom
welcome to our nvidia enthusiast forum.


and no...its not quite as simple as these people wish it were.

9700Pro is the better option if your into DirectX games and if your into Window-only computing. The card's OEM build is the value of the summer and is highly recommended for most users.

but the card has issues. your biting off alot if your not too familiar with driver swapping and if your one of the...oh what is it now...2billion HalfLife players out there, its a bumpy road that is easy to traverse for many of us , but not all of us. The SoftQuadro hack can also provide you with two great sides of both worlds, if your one of the many users that utilizes their computer for 3d creation.

its about the kind of computing you are into that dictates the better buy. especially when the nvidia option can be purchased RETAIL with FULL WARRANTY for alot less, and that might be something your into as well.

its pretty elementary that the R3x00 performs better in benchmarks, maybe thats what your into.

its a good buy...but again..its not that simple unless your a fuking ATi fanboy.

(the following flames, rhetoric, useless advice and friendly forum trolls can also be enjoyed at www.rage3d.com for your reading pleasure.)

welcome to nvnews Marco, it IS that simple. For windows users get the r300...for linux / pro apps users go Nvidia. The r3xxx wins not only benchmarks, but 95% of games too. That little tidbit in ()'s at the end is pretty funny too, because you bring it on yourself with your nonsense. I still find it hard to believe you're above the age of 12.

Steppy
05-04-03, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by RobHague
Urmm think you are being a tad cynical there Typedef Enum about the Radeon. Sure it beats the Ti4800 but then there are other things to consider other than AA/AF performance.

When you say "there is absolutly nothing the NV2x class can do to compare" you are going way too far. Yes the 9700 is of course a lot faster but if you take a look at...

http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-04.html
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-05.html
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021024/ati-06.html

I would say at lower resolutions the Ti4600 is comparing very well. But then if your monitor can only display 1024x768 (lots of 15" TFT owners out there) then why would you give a ****e about what FPS you get at 1152x when your hardware cant display that res?

Also linux support for ATI?? *GASP* God they havent even sorted out their windows drivers prolly yet. This is going to be funny. :lol: At those resolutions then there's no reason to NOT enable full AA and aniso.

Linux support and pro app support are about the ONLY reasons to go for an Nvidia card over an ATI currently(a few people have problems accepting this...like robhague and marcocom).

ASCI Blue
05-04-03, 07:09 PM
Christ some of you are stupid. ATI has had linux support since the Radeon 8500. Is it on par with nVidia? No the ATI drivers are designed for professional level graphics which means they suck for games.

Also from what I've read in these forums as well as many others nV users have to swap drivers too. Use det such and so for game X while game Y needs another version. But I see we have plenty of expert programers present so they know how hard it is to have non-buggy drivers.

Don't waste your time at Tom's hardware, they're the biggest bunch of ****sucking biased scum on the net. Nevermind the fact that Tom did admit that nV told him to give their cards good reviews and ATi cards bad reviews and he has allegedly stopped doing this.

Having a R100 card I can say it performs FAR better in OpenGL than D3D, then again OpenGL is just plain better than D3D for 3d graphics anyway. Many a 3d programmer will agree with me on this and yes I do know a few.

Assuming you're a thinking being you can make decisions for yourself rather than listening to the verbal diaherria of most of these nV fangirls since most of them can't make a coherent statment aside ATI sukz nVidia rokz! If the price is about the same for the Ti4800 and 9800 I'd go with a FX 5600 or 5800 if you really want nVidia.

RobHague
05-04-03, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Steppy
At those resolutions then there's no reason to NOT enable full AA and aniso.

Linux support and pro app support are about the ONLY reasons to go for an Nvidia card over an ATI currently(a few people have problems accepting this...like robhague and marcocom).

A few people have problems accepting that other people have an opinion that does not conform to theirs :rolleyes:. Its an open forum for people to share their view points - so live with it.

The point here is Ti4800 vs 9700 all depends on what you are comparing... PRICE, Drivers, Linux Support, Low Res Results...

What you are doing with the card is a factor of which you buy. Thats common sense nothing more nothing less. For instance I would not go out and buy a Quadro if i wanted to play Quake would i?

Is it on par with nVidia? No the ATI drivers are designed for professional level graphics which means they suck for games.

I hope thats a joke, because in the professional graphics sector ATI are well and truley getting their clocks cleaned by NVIDIA. I have a hard time believing that LINUX drivers will be stable when currentley ATI's drivers for Windows are not particularly amazing. I keep hearing how ATi have 'changed' and their drivers are now "just as good as nvidia's" but it seems ive been lied too. Anyone i speak too that made a move from NVIDIA to ATI always has one complaint - the drivers.

muzz
05-04-03, 07:16 PM
Then compare the 9500p to the 4800 if it is a price issue........ Linux IS an issue that ATi has to work at, no doubt about it.... but as I have said unfortunately that is a VERY SMALL minority.. that IS a FACT.
If Linux is your thing ya may wanna stay with NV for the time being at least ( although ATi SEEMS to be trying there from the admittedly limited exposure I have seen on forums).

reever2
05-04-03, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by marcocom


but the card has issues. your biting off alot if your not too familiar with driver swapping and if your one of the

Excuse me, but are you complaining about how some Ati users have to switch drivers in order to get some games to work or perform better? Maybe you should go look at the 1000 driver revisions Nvidia has and the fact that many users have to try half of them until they find the one best suited with thier card. Nvidia users swap drivers MORE than ati ones

Solomon
05-04-03, 07:19 PM
Um.... No offense guys, but how in your right minds could you tell this guy to get a Ti4800? Do you realize how much the Ti4800's are going for? So far the cheapest I seen it is like $236.00. Now if you buy a OEM 9700 Pro you would be spending roughly around $279.00. Or if you want to test the waters. You could find a Sapphire Atlantis ATi 9700 Non-Pro which most of these come with 2.86ns DDR same as the Pro then flash the BIOS to a Pro and have yourself a true and blue Radeon 9700 Pro for roughly $245.00. The Ti4800's non SE's are still priced extremely high.

So depending on what you are trying to compare too. Price isn't really that much of a factor between the Ti4800's and a OEM Non Pro 9700. Like I said above. I've seen some 9700 Pro's priced at $279.00.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

RobHague
05-04-03, 07:19 PM
-to muzz-

It's not just the price. It is a lot of things.

Lets take another example - this is a business machine. You want maximum uptime. Do you go with an ATI card? Urrm yeah right.

Actually though if i did have a PRIMARY business machine i would be sticking in Matrox cards instead of NVIDIA or ATI ones. But what im getting at here is that the poster should state his uses for the card and his budget etc..

If he simply wants the best card for games, money no issue then yes. 9700.

Solomon
05-04-03, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by RobHague
It's not just the price. It is a lot of things.

Lets take another example - this is a business machine. You want maximum uptime. Do you go with an ATI card? Urrm yeah right.

Actually though if i did have a PRIMARY business machine i would be sticking in Matrox cards instead of NVIDIA or ATI ones. But what im getting at here is that the poster should state his uses for the card and his budget etc..

If he simply wants the best card for games, money no issue then yes. 9700.

True, the guy really doesn't share too much info on what his intentions are... Heh

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

muzz
05-04-03, 07:24 PM
I don't have issues with my ATi cards there Rob..... contrary to popular belief the reason they were # 1 in OEM sales is BECAUSE the Rage series( most sold) was a good stable config.

RobHague
05-04-03, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by CoWBoY
If it's a business machine... what is the most it is going to do.. 2D, maybe some Excel graphs or Powepoint presentations?

Who has the best 2D?

Is 2D really gonna stress any of these cards?

If it is graphics... you typically don't get a Nvidia product for that unless you are doing what... 3D Modeling?

I'm askin here...

In my mind...

2D = Matrox (Best 2D Quality ever)

3D Modeling = Quadro (Best drivers and best peformance all round)

3D Gaming = ATI or NVIDIA's (really comes to personal choice, im sure the ATI cards reall do hold the best value for performance though)