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Tuork
05-01-08, 02:47 AM
I'm just wondering... why is it that we have to pay in order to play online on Xbox Live?
Spare me the PS3 fanboism. I just want to understand how the system works.

I vaguely recall hearing or reading that it's because Microsoft handles all the servers, etc. (not really sure if this is true), in which case it seems reasonable to have to pay for the service. How then, does Wii and PS3 equivalents work, seeing as they are free?

This question rises from finding out that Microsoft charges (or plans to charge) in order to play PC games under the Games For Windows - LIVE insignia.

To be honest, I don't really understand why it is we need to pay extra to play online (hence this thread). We haven't had to pay for computer games before, why start now? On that same note, I ask myself the question again: why do we have to pay for Xbox Live?

EDIT: Well, I decided to ask Google if he new the answer to "Why pay for xbox live?" and I came upon a comment that stated that Xbox Live uses P2P connectivity for online gaming and that PSN was better because it uses dedicated servers. Is this true?

Is this all a just an evil plan by "M$" to milk us dry?


EDIT: Well, I decided to ask Google if he new the answer to "Why pay for xbox live?" and I came upon a comment that stated
that Xbox Live uses P2P connectivity for online gaming and that PSN was better because it uses dedicated servers. Is this true?

Mr. Hunt
05-01-08, 03:41 AM
Because they can I guess. PSN doesn't always have dedicated servers for games, but a lot of their games give the option of hosting a dedicated server, which I think is really awesome. To me if I am paying for Live MS should be putting up their own dedicated servers, and even worse, I don't think their games have an option to dedicate a server (none of the games I have played at least AFAIK).

nekrosoft13
05-01-08, 06:08 AM
Is this all a just an evil plan by "M$" to milk us dry?



with PC games seems like it, something that was free for ages! now MS is trying to slowly take over. Good thing they are failing at it so far.

With xbox, no clue really, at least it allows them to recover some of the lost revenues with all those defective 360s

|MaguS|
05-01-08, 06:59 AM
EDIT: Well, I decided to ask Google if he new the answer to "Why pay for xbox live?" and I came upon a comment that stated that Xbox Live uses P2P connectivity for online gaming and that PSN was better because it uses dedicated servers. Is this true?


That is true. X360 uses a P2P system that makes the player with the best connection be the host and other players join him, if he drops from the game it dynamically creates the server on the next best connection.

This was my complaint about XBLive, theres no real service that your paying for. Yes you get demos quicker then the free people and you can play online but if the other providers can do that then why do you have to pay? Ok XBLive is better then PSn but it has also had extra years to smooth out the issues. What does the monthly fee pay for? It's not the content servers since the free people get the same content, if so congrats XBLive gold members... your now paying for everyone elses service. Same goes for updates and patches... everyone gets them so gold members aren't paying for that... so exactly what are they paying for? nothing... MS found a way to gain profits and so they do it...

Peoples-Agent
05-01-08, 07:18 AM
That is true. X360 uses a P2P system that makes the player with the best connection be the host and other players join him, if he drops from the game it dynamically creates the server on the next best connection.

This was my complaint about XBLive, theres no real service that your paying for. Yes you get demos quicker then the free people and you can play online but if the other providers can do that then why do you have to pay? Ok XBLive is better then PSn but it has also had extra years to smooth out the issues. What does the monthly fee pay for? It's not the content servers since the free people get the same content, if so congrats XBLive gold members... your now paying for everyone elses service. Same goes for updates and patches... everyone gets them so gold members aren't paying for that... so exactly what are they paying for? nothing... MS found a way to gain profits and so they do it...

The money is partly to maintain the infrastructure and continually develop XB Live.

Sorry to say it, but it's so much better than the PSN it's not even funny.

Was playing some Pro Evo around my mates house recently and out of habit I hit the PS button on the middle of the pad to try and bring up some sort of menu to invite someone to play.... lol

Features such as that alone is what you pay for, and it's worth it.

Who gives a feck about Home.... Second Life type retarded nonsense. Sony should be working on the fundementals first, in offering a free online service that atleast challenges XB Live in functionality, not pissing about with that drivel.

And any PS3 owners who have used and enjoyed XB Live know exactly what i'm talking about.

Ingame chat, ingame messaging, ability to have parties of people join servers etc

I just feel they are trying to do too much, when the simplest of things that would make a HUGE difference are right infront of them.

Once Sony realise the gold mine infront of them and actually bother to focus on these elements, MS will no longer be able to justify the cost at all.

|MaguS|
05-01-08, 07:40 AM
Thats for bringing nothing to the table PA. Yes we know that XBLive is superior to PSN in many areas but thats whats is being asked. Why specifically do we pay for XBLive Gold. Everything you mentioned is available to the free members for the most part but being that its free they are locked out of many features like online play.

Now WHY do we pay to get access to online play? If the money we pay goes to develop XBLive ingeneral then again, you are paying for every free loader on XBLive since they get all the same features and benefits. You don't pay for servers since its all P2P.

BTW All the things you mentioned PSN is lacking will hopefully be in once ingame XMB goes live this year. You have to give Sony credit where its due, for their first attempt at an online system, PSN is pretty dam good. I mean its only 2 years old, XBLive is over 6 years old...

Sazar
05-01-08, 09:10 AM
You don't HAVE to pay for it.

No one is asking anyone to PAY for the service. Use silver and be happy, it is free.

My ps3 is used mainly as a blu-ray player/folding machine. That's it. I have yet to find any compelling games that I personally like to run on it, other than driving demos. The xbox on the other hand, I can do whatever the hell I want when playing games and the chat features alone are worth it.

|MaguS|
05-01-08, 09:12 AM
You don't HAVE to pay for it.

No one is asking anyone to PAY for the service. Use silver and be happy, it is free.

My ps3 is used mainly as a blu-ray player/folding machine. That's it. I have yet to find any compelling games that I personally like to run on it, other than driving demos. The xbox on the other hand, I can do whatever the hell I want when playing games and the chat features alone are worth it.
Stop turning this into a PS3 vs 360 thread.

And if you want to play games online with others you have to pay for XBLive, so the question is why are you paying? It's not like the online games are hosted on servers or your even using their bandwidth... What does paying for the ability to play online cover?

Sazar
05-01-08, 09:14 AM
Stop turning this into a PS3 vs 360 thread.

And if you want to play games online with others you have to pay for XBLive, so the question is why are you paying? It's not like the online games are hosted on servers or your even using their bandwidth... What does paying for the ability to play online cover?

You realize I mentioned the xbox live features I prefer and use right?

Stop being such a mom. :afro:

|MaguS|
05-01-08, 09:16 AM
You realize I mentioned the xbox live features I prefer and use right?

Stop being such a mom. :afro:
No, Go clean your room!

Tuork
05-01-08, 06:20 PM
That is true. X360 uses a P2P system that makes the player with the best connection be the host and other players join him, if he drops from the game it dynamically creates the server on the next best connection.

This was my complaint about XBLive, theres no real service that your paying for. Yes you get demos quicker then the free people and you can play online but if the other providers can do that then why do you have to pay? Ok XBLive is better then PSn but it has also had extra years to smooth out the issues. What does the monthly fee pay for? It's not the content servers since the free people get the same content, if so congrats XBLive gold members... your now paying for everyone elses service. Same goes for updates and patches... everyone gets them so gold members aren't paying for that... so exactly what are they paying for? nothing... MS found a way to gain profits and so they do it...

Thanks for the input. I didn't know about the dynamic allocation of "servers", pretty cool IMO. However, this just goes to show that MS is in fact charging because they can.

It's a shame really. I'm no marketing guru, but I think more people would buy an X360 if it had free online games (not taking into account the bad reputation from defective consoles, naturally).

I can understand the concept of a gold account for exclusive content, but as several people mentioned, you can get that with the silver account. Plus, there's no dedicated servers here, no real reason to actually charge you to be able to play online. It's as if I have to pay extra to my ISP in order to transfer data over a particular protocol.

It's not like MS is going to read this thread and think "gee, maybe we shouldn't rake in all that money and give them free online play", but I think it was a horrible move on their part.
Give us a reason to charge $50 a year for XBLive, give us dedicated servers, more features only available to gold members. Something!

IMO, silver accounts should get the ability to send messages and online play via P2P. Nothing less, nothing more. Gold members should have access to the market place, demos, etc., etc., etc.


PS: For the record, I own a silver account. I can't afford XBlive, plus, I'd fail out of Uni. :p

PPS: and for ****s sake, this is NOT a PSN vs. XBL thread, so STFU.

ViN86
05-01-08, 08:05 PM
tbh, i have no idea. i would say bandwidth costs for demos and updates and whatnot, but it's probably more just to make a buck.

Lyme
05-01-08, 08:27 PM
Not all 360 games use p2p, like GTA4. In those cases MS hosts the servers.

kev13dd
05-01-08, 08:34 PM
4 dollars a month for online play? I don't think that's HORRIBLE, and I'm a college student without a job

That being said, Live has crashed, glitched, and been unusable for a total of over 3 weeks in the past 12 months. THAT is what makes me upset. If we are going to pay for a service, I wish it didn't crash everytime a new popular MP game came out, or whenever they decide to "update" or "do maintenance"

Also, if we're paying, then keep developing it. There still is no online browser, there still isn't more chat/voice/video integration and options. No music store, not enough video and TV show variety, etc. It's got a long way to go for having been a paid service for YEARS with little development. It's made steps, but no leaps. I kinda expected better

K

Tuork
05-01-08, 10:44 PM
4 dollars a month for online play? I don't think that's HORRIBLE, and I'm a college student without a job

That being said, Live has crashed, glitched, and been unusable for a total of over 3 weeks in the past 12 months. THAT is what makes me upset. If we are going to pay for a service, I wish it didn't crash everytime a new popular MP game came out, or whenever they decide to "update" or "do maintenance"

Also, if we're paying, then keep developing it. There still is no online browser, there still isn't more chat/voice/video integration and options. No music store, not enough video and TV show variety, etc. It's got a long way to go for having been a paid service for YEARS with little development. It's made steps, but no leaps. I kinda expected better

K

Well, you're kinda right. 4 bucks a month isn't that bad, but I still think that you shouldn't have to pay in order to play games where no server is involved. Although if this changed this in turn would turn into the "but why can I play game X for free and not game Y?"

How do computer games do it then? I know that you can rent dedicated servers, or just host your own games/set up your own dedicated server. Why not do the same for XBL? Silver gets ****tier servers whereas gold members get faster servers that allow for more people.

Just a thought.

Bearclaw
05-01-08, 11:15 PM
Because microsoft wants to make an extra buck.

Peoples-Agent
05-01-08, 11:58 PM
There's quite a large team of guys that run XB Live and the running costs to take into account. It's constantly updated on a daily basis.

I guess MS want it to pay for itself, which it does. Can't deny they are making money from it also, but then it is an integral part of the 360s backbone rather than just an after thought.

The Q&A involved in passing games fit for online play is insane on this console, they try not to leave any stone unturned and again this is bound to cost.

While they continue to profit from it, the more they will continue development.

Sony just market their online equivalent as being "free" just to attract attention in potential buyers of the console, but it's easy to see the downfalls in practice. I bet they are running and developing PSN at a loss, which is why you can't expect much.

When you pay a premium you do have more right to gripe and bitch when things don't go quite right.

Severian126
05-02-08, 11:54 AM
I don't mind paying a few bucks a month to have a service I like. I guess the value in XBL isn't all in the ability to play online games....it's the CONVENIENCE of it, and of finding friends and whatnot and joining each other in games. It's fast and easy. Not to mention I like looking at all the contents available for download too.

So to me, it's the convenience of online play which I like right now, where it's so well integrated into the whole experience I guess.

Mathesar
05-02-08, 08:38 PM
I own both PS3 & 360 and can say im happy to pay for xbox live .. psn just has that "get what you pay for" feel to it compared to Live.

Zelda_fan
05-02-08, 09:40 PM
That is true. X360 uses a P2P system that makes the player with the best connection be the host and other players join him, if he drops from the game it dynamically creates the server on the next best connection.

This was my complaint about XBLive, theres no real service that your paying for. Yes you get demos quicker then the free people and you can play online but if the other providers can do that then why do you have to pay? Ok XBLive is better then PSn but it has also had extra years to smooth out the issues. What does the monthly fee pay for? It's not the content servers since the free people get the same content, if so congrats XBLive gold members... your now paying for everyone elses service. Same goes for updates and patches... everyone gets them so gold members aren't paying for that... so exactly what are they paying for? nothing... MS found a way to gain profits and so they do it...

You pay a monthly fee because Microsoft is a business and wants to make money. They could care less if they don't host the servers.

|MaguS|
05-02-08, 09:43 PM
You pay a monthly fee because Microsoft is a business and wants to make money. They could care less if they don't host the servers.

Did you miss my last sentence in the my quoted posted? I agree what your saying... it was a smart move my MS... just no way to justify it from the consumer point of view.

Zelda_fan
05-02-08, 09:49 PM
Did you miss my last sentence in the my quoted posted? I agree what your saying... it was a smart move my MS... just no way to justify it from the consumer point of view.

No I didn't miss it, but you talk like Microsoft is some great evil, and the PS3 is the crusader of righteousness for the consumer.

|MaguS|
05-02-08, 09:55 PM
No I didn't miss it, but you talk like Microsoft is some great evil, and the PS3 is the crusader of righteousness for the consumer.
When did I say that? Heck I was trying not to turn it into a PSN vs XBLive... I find it funny that your hatred for everything Sony blinds you so bad. I mean heck you bash them constantly but I don't think you ever had really played a title of theirs.

Tuork
05-03-08, 03:11 AM
"I gotta call you back... IT'S ON!"


Ok, now you two... behave.

LovingSticky
05-03-08, 06:55 AM
My only complaint about XBox Live is that it is not available in all countries that XBox HW is sold. It is not a big deal, as you can buy Gold annual membership for $40 on eBay, pay via PayPal, and receive it within few minutes, but you still live in fear of your account being banned anytime :(