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evox
05-22-08, 05:15 PM
Not starting another "one of those" threads. This interview is damn accurate and interesting:


There's this kind of roller-coaster ride: the consoles launch, their PR agencies go out and do everything they can to try and say the PC is dying, they'll prop up the sales of the console, the console starts to get old in the tooth, the PC starts leapfrogging in terms of graphics and bigger releases. So we're almost what, mid-way through the console lifecycle now? So yeah, over the next two years the story's going to come back that the PC is bigger, things like Left 4 Dead and Spore, the id titles are going to come out and everybody's going to be like, "Wow, those console titles are looking kind of crap.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=873&page=1

JigenD
05-22-08, 05:29 PM
We don't understand why that story gets traction over time.

I'll tell you why, because just about every other PC exclusive developer besides Valve and Blizzard says so! You ask the same questions to Blizzard you'll get the same answers. Of course they won't say the sky is falling because if they do it might fall faster. Same reason economists didn't warn the public until recently.

If you go around and you look at all these different things that are happening on the PC, and you add them together, my hunch is that [the sales numbers] would actually be much larger than all of the consoles put together.

I would guarantee him he's wrong. On a global scale. I would bet him 360 games OR Wii games alone outsells PC games worldwide. PC probably outsells PS3 games worldwide though.

[edit : an example added :

"Blizzard Entertainment, a division of Vivendi Games, has projected calendar 2007 revenues of $1.1 billion, operating margins of over 40% and approximately $520 million of operating profit."

http://www.blizzard.co.uk/press/071202.shtml

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=15853

"Nintendo had [...] net sales of $16.6 billion US, and a net income of $2.5 billion US

Nintendo alone sold ~16 times as much and made 5 times the profit of Blizzard alone.]

six_storm
05-22-08, 05:43 PM
Totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself. But I never said that one was better than the other.

Nitz Walsh
05-22-08, 06:32 PM
Nintendo alone sold ~16 times as much and made 5 times the profit of Blizzard alone.]
Nintendo "alone"? Gameboy/Gameboy Advance/DS/Wii, a huge collection of software titles - Nintendo is a HUGE company compared to Blizzard, why the heck are you even equating the two? Even Lombardi in that interview qualified his remarks that his equation would only count if the DS wasn't included, as that sells like crazy.

He's talking about the major console platforms- PS3/360/Wii - and I think he would be right.

JigenD
05-22-08, 06:46 PM
Nintendo "alone"? Gameboy/Gameboy Advance/DS/Wii, a huge collection of software titles - Nintendo is a HUGE company compared to Blizzard, why the heck are you even equating the two? Even Lombardi in that interview qualified his remarks that his equation would only count if the DS wasn't included, as that sells like crazy.

He's talking about the major console platforms- PS3/360/Wii - and I think he would be right.

Gameboy and GBA don't sell AT ALL anymore. Nintendo stopped making any money from those years ago. DS is a large part of Nintendo, but just removing the DS from the equation won't change things too much as DS games don't sell nearly as much as Wii software.

Realize that Blizzard and Valve are probably the 2 biggest PC companies, proportionally taking up a larger piece of the PC market than any console company takes of the console market.

PC is still doing well in a lot of markets that don't have a lot of value. There are tons of Chinese subscribers to WoW, but they don't pay nearly as much as people in the US or EU.

I just don't see any basis to think PC games are outselling either 360 or Wii games at all. The best selling PC game (COD4), was also the #2 selling console game (I don't know what was #1), and the console versions sold many times what the PC version sold (something like 8 million versus 1 million or so). How could PC games statistically catch up from that?

[edit : "WoW China is different from World of Wacraft. First, monthly fees do not exist. A reload account has been settled instead, and the price to pay is 30RMB/66 hours (3€ or 4US$)." Now that I see that, I don't know how Blizzard can claim the ~5 million Chinese WoW accounts they do. They can't call them 'active' like the other Western accounts they claim.]

SH64
05-22-08, 08:37 PM
Not starting another "one of those" threads. This interview is damn accurate and interesting:



http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=873&page=1
Yep hit the nail on the head with that quote!

Imbroglio
05-22-08, 09:58 PM
similar interview here (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17744)

Sazar
05-23-08, 09:06 AM
I'll tell you why, because just about every other PC exclusive developer besides Valve and Blizzard says so! You ask the same questions to Blizzard you'll get the same answers. Of course they won't say the sky is falling because if they do it might fall faster. Same reason economists didn't warn the public until recently.

The other developers are mainly complaining about the fact that piracy is more rampant on PC systems.

However, seeing the success of sales on Steam (for example), as a platform, should let other vendors release games under a similar platform so they have a little more control over piracy.

I would guarantee him he's wrong. On a global scale. I would bet him 360 games OR Wii games alone outsells PC games worldwide. PC probably outsells PS3 games worldwide though.

How can you guarantee that he is wrong?

[edit : an example added :

"Blizzard Entertainment, a division of Vivendi Games, has projected calendar 2007 revenues of $1.1 billion, operating margins of over 40% and approximately $520 million of operating profit."

http://www.blizzard.co.uk/press/071202.shtml

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=15853

"Nintendo had [...] net sales of $16.6 billion US, and a net income of $2.5 billion US

Nintendo alone sold ~16 times as much and made 5 times the profit of Blizzard alone.]

Fantastic example. I bet you that Nintendo made all that revenue and ALL of that profit on game sales alone right? Because you clearly know that Blizzard and Vivendi et al don't actually make any game hardware (as Nintendo does) and that a good portion of Nintendo's sales and profits are still derived from the DS which Lombardi clearly pointed out was a different beast.

Ah, to be so astute and accurate at all times, how do you do it.

Btw, Blizzard has a much higher margin per dollar of revenue than Nintendo.

xbob
05-23-08, 10:43 AM
I'll tell you why, because just about every other PC exclusive developer besides Valve and Blizzard says so! You ask the same questions to Blizzard you'll get the same answers. Of course they won't say the sky is falling because if they do it might fall faster. Same reason economists didn't warn the public until recently.



I would guarantee him he's wrong. On a global scale. I would bet him 360 games OR Wii games alone outsells PC games worldwide. PC probably outsells PS3 games worldwide though.

[edit : an example added :

"Blizzard Entertainment, a division of Vivendi Games, has projected calendar 2007 revenues of $1.1 billion, operating margins of over 40% and approximately $520 million of operating profit."

http://www.blizzard.co.uk/press/071202.shtml

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=15853

"Nintendo had [...] net sales of $16.6 billion US, and a net income of $2.5 billion US

Nintendo alone sold ~16 times as much and made 5 times the profit of Blizzard alone.]

You do realize much of that profit was based on hardware, right? Every point you have made was made a few years ago and people pointed to the PS2 and how much money it was making, yet the market for gaming PCs and games (and pay to play MMOs) keeps growing? Let me know how you can explain that away?

The 360 will start downtrending this year and the PS3 will keep building, but not like the PS2, the PC is here to stay as a gaming platform.

Full disclosure, I own a 360 and a PS3 and came back to PC gaming this month because there is just nothing exciting to play on those platforms in the near future.

sytaylor
05-23-08, 11:22 AM
I'll tell you why, because just about every other PC exclusive developer besides Valve and Blizzard says so! You ask the same questions to Blizzard you'll get the same answers. Of course they won't say the sky is falling because if they do it might fall faster. Same reason economists didn't warn the public until recently.

Economists have been bitching about the credit crunch for over a year now. They are the worst bunch for the sky is falling.

Gaco
05-23-08, 12:09 PM
I would guarantee him he's wrong. On a global scale. I would bet him 360 games OR Wii games alone outsells PC games worldwide.
You're just pulling that out from where the sun doesn't shine.

I think I'd rather listen to Doug Lombardi than you in fact... excellent article btw :)

Retrolock
05-23-08, 12:15 PM
Tsk tsk... Stop the bs jigenD

JigenD
05-23-08, 01:59 PM
How can you guarantee that he is wrong?

The only reason I say that is because what he said was nonsensical.

Fantastic example. I bet you that Nintendo made all that revenue and ALL of that profit on game sales alone right? Because you clearly know that Blizzard and Vivendi et al don't actually make any game hardware (as Nintendo does) and that a good portion of Nintendo's sales and profits are still derived from the DS which Lombardi clearly pointed out was a different beast.

Yes, but consider how MUCH money they make, and also the fact that they are only one of many companies putting out console games.

Btw, Blizzard has a much higher margin per dollar of revenue than Nintendo.

Personally I don't think we should consider profitability when discussing this. Blizzard runs a MMO, and they get most of their money on the fees. They don't have to spend much of that money, they can just keep raking it in. Blizzard has the majority of the MMO market with WoW alone, and that's not healthy.

Every point you have made was made a few years ago and people pointed to the PS2 and how much money it was making, yet the market for gaming PCs and games (and pay to play MMOs) keeps growing? Let me know how you can explain that away?

The 360 will start downtrending this year and the PS3 will keep building, but not like the PS2, the PC is here to stay as a gaming platform.

Full disclosure, I own a 360 and a PS3 and came back to PC gaming this month because there is just nothing exciting to play on those platforms in the near future.

Things WERE different in the PS2 days. The fact that people made SOME of the points I have in the past is irrelevant. The market for gaming PCs and PC games has not grown in all areas. It has shrunk in the US, the largest market, and only grown slightly in other areas. Consoles on the other hand have grown exponentially year after year. Games cost exponentially more money to make generation after generation.

There have been no signs of 360 downtrending thus far, although it has been predicted by some analysts. There will be no dominant console platform this generation. Even the Wii can't hope to claim the PS2's market percentage last generation.

Full disclosure, I own 360, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP, and a fairly out of date PC I built myself a few years ago (only RAM upgrade recently). I've basically given up on PC gaming for the time being because A). The gap between PC and consoles in gaming capacity has been nearly completely closed, and PC no longer has the momentum to stay ahead. B). I can't stand the level of maintenance needed (for my own obsessive nature, I'll admit), which has increased year after year IMO. C). PC simply doesn't get hot exclusive titles that interest me like it used to. I agree that other than GTA4 and MGS4 which are huge, things have been slow on consoles, but it's been even slower on PC in recent months.

Economists have been bitching about the credit crunch for over a year now. They are the worst bunch for the sky is falling.

Well if they had raised some flags 4 years ago they might have been able to do something about it. Same concept works in all scenarios.

You're just pulling that out from where the sun doesn't shine.

I think I'd rather listen to Doug Lombardi than you in fact... excellent article btw :)

That's nice, you have no thoughts of your own and gobble up PR, enjoy your brainlessness.

Tsk tsk... Stop the bs jigenD

Stop the straw man attacks based on fanboyism. I'm just stating facts, I think things were better when PC was still a viable platform, but I won't ignore reality.