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NvViolator
05-27-08, 08:23 PM
Hi Guys,
Not posted here in age's, just need a bit of advice. I have an ageing agp based system now. Do i go for 7950 or 7900gs. I cant afford to upgrade to another pci express based m/c at the mo.

Regards
Lee.

CaptNKILL
05-27-08, 08:28 PM
7950 should be faster.

SH64
05-28-08, 12:22 AM
7950 should be faster.
Yep.

NvViolator
05-28-08, 06:48 AM
Thanks Guys

XFX Support
05-28-08, 11:40 AM
Yes, the 7950GT is faster but a bit harder to find. Once you get either one if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

ragejg
05-28-08, 12:58 PM
7950 agp's can only be bought for upwardcs of $250 right now, and 7900 gs agp's are really expensive right now as well.

A Radeon HD3850 (512mb, it needs mem, the 256mb variant suffers a la 8800 320mb) performs much much better than the previously mentioned cards, and can be had for right around $130-$160.

Just my $0.02. I'm a former mod and staff member (and damn proud participant) in this community, and have no real bias... in my AGP-constricted situation I went through the same ordeal, and at first got a 7800 gs. Nice card, but when I installed the HD 3850 and played current games I was blown away by the improvement. This card especially when overclocked (I've been at speeds very close to the HD 3870 lately) in many cases performs on par with nV's G90 architecture. My 1280x720/1360x768 26" LCD loves this card as it pushed the pixels just right for its medium resolution and leaves me room for plenty of AA and AF.

ragejg
05-28-08, 03:56 PM
Generally speaking, right now and for the forseeable future, AGP users are limited to 1280x1024 if we want to use AA and AF with our games... unless ATI's 4xxx series is pin-compatible with the 3xxx series.

I assembled the following benchmarks from Tom's somewhat useful data in for a couple purposes:

1. To show 1280x1024 performance of most of the last of the higher-end AGP video cards. It can be inferred that the 3850 512mb variant performs in between Tom's 3850 256mb and 3870 512mb results.

2. To get a visual representation of what these AGP cards perform like vs. the family of fastest single cards available in the PCI-e slot format at the time of benchmarking (Geforce 8800 series).

3. To get a little performance map for myself, as I own an AGP rig with a 3850 (I game at 1280x720 and 1360x768), and I'm building another one which will probably house a 7800GS. Since Tom's doesn't have a 7800 GS in their benchmark list, I have to infer that the scores are somewhere between a 6800 Ultra, a 7600 GT and a 7800 GT.

Mind you, our result graphs would be a bit flatter then Tom's, unless you're running a C2D rig with AGP or an Opteron dual-core at 3ghz.

On to the 1280x1024 benchmarks:

-3dmark '06 SM2.0 score, 4xaa/8xaf-

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/3dmark06-v1-0-2-sm2-0-score,545.html?p=1602%2C1593%2C1616%2C1615%2C1642% 2C1580%2C1575%2C1569%2C1647%2C1567%2C1561)

I believe that this SM2 score is actually a good representation of a card's ability to run the highest shadow settings + HDR, bloom or other environmental options in older titles circa 2003-2006.

-3dmark '06 HDR/SM3 score, 4xaa/8xaf-

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,540.html?p=1602%2C1616%2C1615%2C1593%2C1642% 2C1580%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

Again I think that this particular HDR/SM3 benchmark is relevant in deducing performance hits incurred by switching on the eye candy in newer games 2005-2008.

- Prey 4xaa/8xaf, high quality -

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/prey,575.html?p=1602%2C1593%2C1616%2C1642%2C1615%2 C1580%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

I believe that this data also somewhat speaks for Quake Wars:ET, at least better than Doom 3 does.

- BF 2142, 4xaa, 8xaf -

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/battlefield-2142,550.html?p=1602%2C1593%2C1616%2C1642%2C1615%2 C1580%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

The 7950GT shows its mettle again in this game, approaching the 256mb HD 3850. If it weren't so pricey everywhere, it'd sure be a great pick of an AGP card.

- Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, 4xaa, 8xaf, max quality -

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/dark-messiah-of-might-and-magic,555.html?p=1642%2C1602%2C1616%2C1580%2C1593% 2C1615%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

7950 FTW! Defeating a G80! Wow!

- WarHammer Mark of Chaos 4xaa, 8xaf max quality -

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/warhammer-mark-of-chaos-v1-6,581.html?p=1602%2C1593%2C1615%2C1616%2C1580%2C16 42%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

Most cards seem to be able to handle this game quite well save for the 6800U and 7600 GT.

- ABOUT THE 1280x1024 RESOLUTION CLASS -

This seems to no longer be the sweet spot for gamers,

REASON 1: MONITORS

Most of us are now equipped with LCD's that sport 1440x900 or 1680x1050 resolutions. More horsepower is now required to run games at the LCD's native resolutions.

Some of us, however, still either run CRT's or we utilize 720P HDTV's with lower resolutions.

I have both. My KDS 17" is still really really nice to look at sometimes due to its nice contrast ratio, and my Sanyo 26" LCD does a great job as I sit 5.5' away on my couch.

REASON 2: GPU HORSEPOWER

Admittedly, running G92's in SLI at 1080P or higher at 3 feet away on a 24" LCD is even more uber-sweet than the old standby of 1280x1024, especially with some AA and AF.

HOWEVER:[b]

Limited by either our checking account, our CPU socket or GPU capabilities, some of us must still game at this resolution. This is where cards like the 7800 series, 7950GT and HD3850 256 or 512mb prove their usefulness.

[b]AGP SHOWING ITS AGE:

Here's Tom's overall games FPS score with the cards I used in the above benchmarks:

LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-vga-charts/overall-all-games-fps,572.html?p=1602%2C1616%2C1593%2C1642%2C1615%2C 1580%2C1575%2C1569%2C1567%2C1561%2C)

Though it is still possible to attain almost 80% of the performance of the single card king of the hill in this data set, we are missing the Radeon X2 cards (3850x2 and 3870x2) as well as nVidia's new 9800 GTX. I am uneducated on the new nv card's performance but I am confident that it surely has knocked the mighty 880 Ultra off the top of the hill, making things even steeper for AGP owners.

CONCLUSION:

It is still possible to have fun gaming on an AGP rig. But there are things an AGP owner must do to compromise, such as pick a lower resolution monitor, lower some quality sliders and/or put up with some lower framerates.

Getting back to the nature of this thread, it's safe to say that if a 7950GT could be had for about $150, then it would be a great last nv based card in the AGP format. If it cannot be found, then an HD 3850, preferrably a 512mb version, would be preferable.

For what it's worth I just purchased a 15" 1024x768 LCD for my office pc, as a space saver. Its other purpose is to allow me to game at its native resolution with a 7800 GS for a while. Over at my 26" LCD in the living room, when my gaming requirements outstrip my overclocked 512mb AGP 3850, then it will go to the office and happily run Crysis-era games at 10x7.

SH64
05-28-08, 07:06 PM
Good work ragejg :D

CaptNKILL
05-28-08, 07:58 PM
I have my old Athlon 64 system around still, if I ever wanted to turn it into a mid-range gamer I could overclock it a little (it'll hit 2.5Ghz) and throw a 3850 in there. That'd be pretty decent. :D

General Lee
05-31-08, 11:20 PM
Hi Guys,
Not posted here in age's, just need a bit of advice. I have an ageing agp based system now. Do i go for 7950 or 7900gs. I cant afford to upgrade to another pci express based m/c at the mo.

Regards
Lee.

Holy ****! Another Lee on here that will be using a 7900 series AGP card, lol. I got me an XFX 7900GS AGP for my aging system...specs have since been upgraded despite my sig link image. It was a very good jump up from a 5900FX Ultra. Still running an AthlonXP Thoroughbred B 2700+, and the gaming is great with my rig. I also use my rig for watching TV, complete HTPC, the occassional 3D renderings, F@H (in the winter, to heat my room, lol). If you need an AGP card, the 7900 series should be a good buy, especially for the price. When I got mine, I got a $30 mail in rebate, even after it was already on sale at Newegg.

ragejg
05-31-08, 11:54 PM
I have my old Athlon 64 system around still, if I ever wanted to turn it into a mid-range gamer I could overclock it a little (it'll hit 2.5Ghz) and throw a 3850 in there. That'd be pretty decent. :D

Pretty decent is right...

My x2 939/3850 rig is proving to work great for games at 720p, along with some AA and AF.

Lost Planet DX10 runs effing great, for example.

I think I got almost 8k in 3dmark 06 with the rig FWIW.


... meh, it is kinda discouraging however, knowing that my office pc (same mobo as my main pc) will only pull half the frames as its counterpart due to having one core vs two, and a 7800 GS vs an HD 3850...

For kicks however I'm gonna OC the heck out of both the 3000+ and the 7800GS and see how well the Crysis demo runs. :firedevil :firedevil :firedevil

rage10
06-02-08, 09:50 PM
Yes, the 7950GT is faster but a bit harder to find. Once you get either one if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

which sites sell them? i cant find ANY.

StoNer
06-04-08, 10:07 PM
I'm currently playing AoC on my system (yea i know im retarded and crazy)

But im able to get good enough framerates at 1280x1024 on my 19" LCD to allow me to play without choppiness. This is in SM2.0 mode of course. SM3 rapes me upside down and inside out.

gravioli
06-05-08, 01:45 AM
I am currently using a XFX 7950GT AGP. It was a great upgrade from my old 6800 Ultra.

The cards reliability is hit and miss though. In fact, I am on my 3rd one. The first one was DoA and the second one died about a week after XFX sent it to me. I've had no problems with the current one except that the primary DVI port died, so I'm stuck using the secondary one. With this in mind and the fact that the cards are very hard to come by nowadays, it might be best for you to go with an ATI HD3850.

I'm currently playing AoC on my system (yea i know im retarded and crazy)

But im able to get good enough framerates at 1280x1024 on my 19" LCD to allow me to play without choppiness. This is in SM2.0 mode of course. SM3 rapes me upside down and inside out.

Your system is very similar to mine, so it's encouraging to hear you can play the game at 1280x1024 since I just bought AoC from Amazon. Is this with low or medium settings?

EciDemon
06-05-08, 03:55 AM
Ill have to second graviolis comment on the xfx 7950gt agp.
I had two of them die on me after just 10 minutes use on both :(

They were plenty fast coming from an 6800 (with unlocked pipelines and OC) but dang... never have I seen hardware die like that. Upon searching forums and google, it seemd more people had simalar issues. The screen went complete garbage and stayed that way even after cold reboot. It looked like overheat issues, but temps were good so it was probably bad ram issues.

StoNer
06-05-08, 04:34 AM
I use Medium textures and normal terrain settings. I have parallax mapping off, view distance to 1200, no shadows, water set on reflect ground only, most of the other sliders maxed out and then SM2.0 mode enabled and bloom off.

The thing that sucks is that although enabling SM2.0 gets rid of the bump mapping and other effects that on top of other players lag my system up to 10fps or so, it also gets rid of some (not all) particle effects and grass aswell.


I'm no complainer though, I'm just happy that im able to play this game at 25-50 fps and not lag to hell.

Just make sure you enable SM2.0 at the end of setting all of your other settings, because theres a bug in the menu that causes the game to revert to 3.0 everytime you apply an option.

rage10
06-05-08, 08:58 PM
I am currently using a XFX 7950GT AGP. It was a great upgrade from my old 6800 Ultra.

The cards reliability is hit and miss though. In fact, I am on my 3rd one. The first one was DoA and the second one died about a week after XFX sent it to me. I've had no problems with the current one except that the primary DVI port died, so I'm stuck using the secondary one.

I got mine more then 11 months ago and I never have had a single issue with it. I guess I must be lucky.:) and can you use a spliter to make more use out of the secondery port?

gravioli
06-06-08, 01:58 AM
I got mine more then 11 months ago and I never have had a single issue with it. I guess I must be lucky.:) and can you use a spliter to make more use out of the secondery port?

I only use a single display, so no need for a splitter. :)

The 7950GT is the first video card I ever had major problems with. The only prior video card that I've had die on me was my old Radeon 9700 Pro, but I bought it on the day it was released and it lasted at least a year before I started getting video corruption.

Even though I've had problems with my XFX 7950GT I will definitely stick with them in the future. They have the best tech support I've ever dealt with and the double lifetime warranty on video cards is awesome. :thumbsup: