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fantomas
05-08-03, 01:27 AM
i mentioned this in a different thread...i passed up a cheap 18" Philips LCD, it has a pixel response time listed as <30ms, thats no good right?? Some one posted a link to an incredible silver samsung that got debuted at cebit, no info on when its coming out...

anyone got any info on 12ms LCD's?

fantomas
05-08-03, 04:08 AM
heres the link to the samsung 172x...


samsung 172x (http://www.prad.de/new/news/21032003samsung.html)

wicked looking, and 16ms!!

however only with 12ms to come....

Benq supplements: "12 to 14 ms in this summer under realistic measuring methods we consider feasible". (http://216.239.39.120/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.gamestar.de/news/hardware/11948/)

thanks to google for the translation...:D

and fotis for the original tip :)



check it out, i can't attach the image here, but maybe someone else can ... http://www.edesignz.co.nz/hosted/whitecloud/samsung.htm

Fotis
05-08-03, 08:19 AM
http://www.prad.de/new/images/monitore/samsungx.jpg
:D
500:1 contrast
270 cd/qm
16ms responce time(I was hoping for 12ms)
160/130 viewing angle
Extremely narrow housing framework (under 1 cm),
Housing depth of only 16.5 mm

Judging by most reviews of 16ms LCD's they don't seem to be the holy grail for gamers.
Although we been hearing about 12ms screens coming late Q2 2003 we are still waiting for an announcement.
The two companys close to 12ms are Mitsubishi-NEC with its “Feed-forward” tech and LG with “Overdrive circuit”.

nin_fragile14
05-08-03, 08:36 AM
NEC 1760NX is what I have. 16 ms response time and it looks great. Only games it has trouble with are Counterstrike and Quake 3, where there is a little bit of blurring. I would never trade it back for a CRT.

The Planar P171XM and Hitachi 174 are also great 16 ms LCDs. From what I understand, they all use the same screen, so you're only paying for the brand or a different look.

fantomas
05-09-03, 06:43 PM
yeah the anand tech and toms hardware reviews of the Hitachi 174 (the 16ms LCD) are guarded in there compliments of the screen...but how much better is a 12ms going to be? Even the reviewers state the tests are subjective, since no standard test exists...

16ms now, or wait for LG to drop the 12ms later this year...

How well will DOOM 3 look???

and on that topic, is it coming out this year??

Fotis
05-10-03, 03:27 AM
If you check Toms review of nec 1760(16ms) vs the Iyama(20ms) he says the second showed less gosting!!:confused:
Maybe nec's 16ms isn't "true" 16ms.
I would wait atleast for the 16ms samsung.

About doom3 I don't see you having problems with a 16ms screen.Doom3 is to be a slow pased game unlike quake3 so there will probably be no gosting.
As for its release date Id said 2003.

StealthHawk
05-10-03, 04:18 AM
Someone let me know when they have fast 18inch or 19inch LCD monitors, and I will pick one up immediately :D

fantomas
05-10-03, 05:22 AM
Someone let me know when they have fast 18inch or 19inch LCD monitors, and I will pick one up immediately

Inquirer has regular reports about 17" and up being more and more popular, 15" LCD is dropping away...you will be be able to get one *very* soon im sure...:cool:

Riptide
05-10-03, 11:04 AM
Just gotta throw in my blurb about the 2000FP. It's 20.1" viewable, 1600x1200 native, and I simply love it.

The 25ms response time doesn't seem to slow to me. For me anyway I have to be looking for the slight motion blur that is sometimes visible to notice it. It is certainly not distracting in the least, and I play a lot of FPS.

Splinter Cell, btw, looks awesome on it. And for $800 shipped if you get it at the right time it's *real* tough to beat. 3 year warranty on the backlight as well.

Fotis
05-10-03, 11:27 AM
CRT's are loosing ground every day.
By the end of the year all TFT problems will be solved and there won't be a reason to buy a CRT.

nVidi0t
05-10-03, 06:12 PM
The best one I have seen is the Samsung 191T, and there is still horrible ghosting in UT2003 and any other fast 3d game.

Only consider getting an LCD once the response times are low enough to remove ghosting, which will probably be mid 2004.

netviper13
05-11-03, 02:58 AM
I played two hours worth of Unreal Tournament on a Dell 1800FP and there was absolutely no noticeable ghosting. I'm sure I could have seen some had I been looking for it, but why look for it if it's not noticeable when just playing to play.

StealthHawk
05-11-03, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by netviper13
I played two hours worth of Unreal Tournament on a Dell 1800FP and there was absolutely no noticeable ghosting. I'm sure I could have seen some had I been looking for it, but why look for it if it's not noticeable when just playing to play.

What's the response time on that LCD, 25ms?

Riptide
05-11-03, 09:11 AM
I believe the 1800FP is a 25ms screen. Dell's website is tough to get specs from though and you might want to call before you order. I know for a fact that the 2000FP/1900FP are 25ms though.

Isn't it strange how there is such a disparity among people that think there is "horrible" ghosting with 25ms screens and yet others (such as myself) hardly notice it?

Odd. I think some people are *ultra* picky almost to the point of it being ridiculous. Just my 2 c....

netviper13
05-11-03, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
What's the response time on that LCD, 25ms?

I'm pretty sure it's 25ms.

nVidi0t
05-11-03, 03:33 PM
Here's an example of ghosting on the Samsung 191T which has a response time of 25ms.

http://www.3dnewsnet.com/reviews/images/samsung191t/image025.jpg

Riptide
05-11-03, 03:54 PM
Strange. I've never noticed motion blur that looked that bad on my display and it supposedly has the same response time.

I've seen slight blurring when I swiveled if I kept my eyes focused on something large, flat, and stationary. I've never seen a character split into two like that though. Very odd indeed.

Nutty
05-11-03, 05:22 PM
By the end of the year all TFT problems will be solved and there won't be a reason to buy a CRT.

except price.

What I dont understand about the whole TFT/LCD thing is, resolutions. With CRT you can change to any resolution. I hear TFTs are fixed.. does this mean you have to play your games in 1 resolution only? What if you pick a lower res what happens, and what does it look like?

Riptide
05-11-03, 06:38 PM
You can run LCDs in other resolutions than their native resolution. However, they will interpolate and the resulting image will be noticeably blurrier than what the native resolution offers.

Which ofcourse necessitates purchasing an LCD that you intend to run in the native resolution a clear majority of the time. In my case I play pretty much all my games and run my desktop in 1600x1200. So I chose an LCD with that native resolution.

Running in the native resolution has never been a problem for me... I never switched resolutions a lot when I had a CRT either. But ofcourse I understand that for some people that might be a real problem depending on what they're using their display for.

nVidi0t
05-12-03, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Riptide
Strange. I've never noticed motion blur that looked that bad on my display and it supposedly has the same response time.

I've seen slight blurring when I swiveled if I kept my eyes focused on something large, flat, and stationary. I've never seen a character split into two like that though. Very odd indeed.

Well, about a month ago I was looking for a large LCD (19 inch to 24 inch) to replace my 24 inch CRT, which is almost 6 years old and seems to be on the way out (decoloration/magnetism).

I checked out a load of LCD's, the most impressive being the 24 Inch SGI model, but that was way off the price scale.

All of the monitors I tested games on seemed to have that slight ghosting, so I figured, why not wait until there is completely no ghosting, since I only invest in a monitor every few years.

Dont get me wrong, the contrast and clarity of the image was stunning on most of the LCD's, but I just didn't want to deal with the blurring if lower response time LCD's are just around the corner :)

Riptide
05-12-03, 11:23 AM
Yeah, it's usually a good idea to wait it out when you know something better is just around the corner.

I think I'll be holding onto my current display at least until the warranty expires. By then (2 more years) LCDs should be cheaper and faster...

nVidi0t
05-12-03, 11:27 AM
Jeez, in 2 years you can expect uber response time LCD's. Heck, even Plasma monitors..

The future should be a good one :)

ALobpreis
05-13-03, 01:24 AM
About the response time, what's the time published by the manufacturers?
Maximum? Typical/average?
And the times you are saying... 16, 20 ms... are they average?
The monitors in my pocket-range :( are 40ms max... :cry:

If a LCD has a 1024x768 max rez, how should it work with 800x600 or other resolutions??

StealthHawk
05-13-03, 01:39 AM
I really have a feeling that they are maximum times. I read somewhere that the times advertised can be very misleading. Go figure. Welcome to the wonderful world of advertisement.

fantomas
05-13-03, 06:23 AM
Stealthhawk: sometimes the pixel response time is misrepresented so that only the pixel rise time is measured, and the fall is left off..

so for example a 20ms might actually be a 20ms rise 10ms fall total 30ms. However that is not common on the new LCD's but probably on "never heard of this company before" screens...

im thinking 16ms or maybe wait...