9700 AIW not so Wonderful

[RobHague]

Longtime NV user gets a 9700pro AIW...

...and regrets it deeply.


Sorry just wanted to jump on the bandwaggon there. ;) :D

Right yes so i slid out my GeforceFX 5800 Ultra today, and replaced it with a Sappire 'Built by Ati' Radeon 9700 All-In-Wonder. To my supprise the PC would not boot with it in - the fans just spun for a moment and then stoped. Removing the power cable from the card resulted in the PC actually turning on and the PC BEEPING telling me to attach the power cable. That's the most i can get out of it.

I just found a thread on rage3d (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33682632) that details people having this issue, exact same symptoms... sometimes changing the PSU makes things work. But it seems im now the latest victim of this issue. The solution of replacing the PSU until i find one that works is unacceptable. My enermax PSU 350w was £50 and is ample for the power hungry FX. I have very little in my PC. One CDR/One HDD.

So great work ATi. Smashing :rolleyes:. So i now have a £350 hunk of PCB waiting to be returned - and so ends my venture in to ATi's wonderful land. ;) Im actually now just considering what i should do next - 9800pro or just forget ATI all together.

[saturnotaku]

No, see, the thing is, you must not know how to install a video card properly because ATI as we all know is perfect.

Sorry the card didn't work out for 'ya, but I want to prepare you for what people like Hellbinder are going to say. ;)

Seriuosly, though, did you read through that thread you posted and see the things people have done to try and solve their problems? Have you checked the part number as some of the -10 boards have been known to cause people problems?

[RobHague]

lol, yeah thats it i must have installed it upside down or something. ;)

No but i really am 100% pi**ed off at ATI right now. This was an expensive product and even the POWER HUNGRY FX Ultra worked fine..

The bad thing is i sold my FX in advance cos i knew i would be keeping the 9700pro (no reason not too - i wanted AIW). So now im back to Geforce4 MX while the company sort out this mess. Now as its not actually ''faulty'' in the sense of bad workmanship. They will most likely deduct about 20% of the price as a restocking fee. Now you know why im so angry at them. :rw: Point is this is 100% ATI's fault for making such a ****e product and unfortunatley thats not covered by online stores 'returns' policy. :(

You know the FX might have had glitchs and problems, maybe even the 'death by screensaver' thing. But at least the bloody thing worked.

[Hanners]

So no nVidia card has ever been faulty?

Wow.... I never realised they had achieved the holy grail of 100% reliable products.


I don't suppose you considered the possibility that you've just been unlucky and received a faulty card? If your PSU could cope with a GeForceFX, there's no reason it should do likewise with an AIW 9700 Pro.

[jbirney]

He could have shorted (static charge) something out during the install I know its unlikely but It does happen.

I have seen this happen before on a buddy of mine's PC. It was a random thing and happened a couple of time a month. The fix I alway got to work is to unplug both your power connectors to the mother board..then plug them back in. Worked for me in the past. One this one it always happened unitl we swaped out his NF1 mobo with an nF2 mobo. It has not done this for over 2 months now.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Rob what mobo/chipset do you have?

[jbirney]

Rob in that thread you provided it looked like there were some issues caused by the mobos, power supplies or settings in your BIOS of the mobo. Did you try to reset those or swap out with another mobo?

I have helped my firends install about 10 r9500/9700s and only saw this issue once which was fixed with another mobo.... I would stop accusing ATI first and see if there is not another reason.

[jbirney]

Originally posted by jbirney
I have seen this happen before on a buddy of mine's PC. It was a random thing and happened a couple of time a month. The fix I alway got to work is to unplug both your power connectors to the mother board..then plug them back in. Worked for me in the past. One this one it always happened unitl we swaped out his NF1 mobo with an nF2 mobo. It has not done this for over 2 months now.

After reading some of those threads, Mindnumb and others were able to fix it in this manner as well.

More users were able to fix using the above method here as well
http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221565&highlight=AIW+9700+switch

[RobHague]

Static Charge? I have all the anti-static equipment i need so no its nothing to do with it. Ive installed and changed and reinstalled equipment countless times. User error or user inflicted damage is not a consideration. I know what im doing ok?

Faulty card? Maybe but that thread says otherwise. Apart from that the card boots up when i remove its connection to the PSU. Which says to me the card is drawing too much power (although the FX takes more) and triping out the PSU. I have to reset the PSU to get it to even try and work again.

Mainboard or PSU? I have an Nforce2 (MSI K7N2G-ILSR) that works perfectley well with a GeforceFX 5800 Ultra. I also have an Enermax 350w PSU (DualFAN). It cost £50 (very nice quality).

Rob in that thread you provided it looked like there were some issues caused by the mobos, power supplies or settings in your BIOS of the mobo. Did you try to reset those or swap out with another mobo?

No i didnt. My mainboard works fine and i shouldnt have to change mainboard in order to use a new video card. The BIOS on the mainboard is the latest and its set to standard default settings. I can't even get the PC to turn on without taking out the card first (or removing its seperate power source).

So no nVidia card has ever been faulty?

Wow.... I never realised they had achieved the holy grail of 100% reliable products.


This is the FIRST time ive had a card not work for me. This is the first time ive bought another brand apart from NVIDIA. Now i know why some people like to stick with what they trust. :)

I would stop accusing ATI first and see if there is not another reason.

Why? They are producing a product with a HUGE flaw that stops it working in a lot of configurations. They arent commenting on the problem and when contacted via tech support they dont give any useful information out...

Lets just state that the card is NOT faulty. Not in the sense of 'bad wiring'. The problem im getting is the exact same issue and im not making a 'delay switch' or other mod just to get this card working. I shouldnt have too and thats not acceptable anyway.

I have requested a RMA for the card from the online store i bought it and will be returning it shortley.

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by Hanners
So no nVidia card has ever been faulty?

Wow.... I never realised they had achieved the holy grail of 100% reliable products.



What relevance does this have to this thread? Wouldn't you be rather annoyed if you spent a huge lump of cash on something that did not work? NVIDIA is irelevent in this discussion so don't drag them into it because someone bashed perfect wonderful ATI.

[Unit01]

It does have relevance cause everyone knows for quite a long time that robhague is the regular ati basher here at nvnews after nv40.
And the probability that he really got a aiw9700 seems 50/50

[RobHague]

Flibbled: let's not respond like that;)

[vampireuk]

I say again it is irelevant:nono: I don't care which company he prefers, the fact is he is having trouble with a ATI video card and is annoyed at ATI, that is completly reasonable. Dragging NVIDIA into this for no reason is just pointless.

[RobHague]

Thankyou vampireuk. It seem's that some people in this forum need to grow up and get a life.

But as it seems you now have to prove you own something before people will stop flaming you and actually say something useful here is screenshot of the order form from the site i used.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=116951
:rolleyes: Note the date? The name? Ties in with what i say yes? Is that enough proof or should i provide a signed statement as well? :mad:

Anyway im considering changing my PSU but from what ive read i have no idea which to try as there is no gurentee paying £100 for a new PSU will make one iota of difference to my problem. God i wish id never bothered now.

[volt]

Rob, have you tried firing up the box without the chassis ? (no case, no screws, pins, etc)

[RobHague]

Aye :(

Im using it now. Its not the PC - PC was working fine. I have actually had the PC in bits today giving the cables a tidy (as the card didnt work and i had my case open, seemed something to do so it wasnt pointless :D).

That thread is well dodgy, im not sure if i should buy a new PSU or try a different Radeon. :( Id rather not return the card, its a LOT of hassle and a lot of money. It will also be at least 1 1/2 weeks to get it all sorted so im looking at about 2 weeks to get this returned and to have another card in my hands *sigh*.

[gokickrocks]

sorry to hear about your misfortune with the card...i for one love the aiw series and would have gotten one if it came out the same time the 9700 pro was released, but because im impatient, i didnt buy it...but back to the point i wanted to make...

the thing about psu's is that some people take it for granted (dont take what im about to say the wrong way or as a personal attack)...they think that just cause something has 300watts, that it would provide ample power to everything...high wattage is nice and all to have, but what they really should look at is how clean and stable the current is in addition to wattage...

with what i just said, the psu is something you should invest in, although it can be costly...if you have the cash, i would recommend the pc power and cooling 510 atx psu (runs at $200 USD however), it has proven to deliver the most clean and stable current

[RobHague]

Well my PSU was £50, its Enermax 350W DualFAN which i felt was rather good quality.

However in that thread even a 480w Antec produces a simular problem.... im just not sure getting a really expensive PSU will make enough difference. As a company wont take something back ive used its just adding more and more money on top of the £350 ive already spent on the card if it still wont work... gah.

*edit*

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Enermax_111.html

I was thinking of going for the last PSU on that list. £113 but it seems overkill and if that wont work i dont think anything will.

[volt]

I assume you've tried ONLY viddy, ram (all 3 banks) + cpu without chassis ? Anything unusual with the BIOS ? Tried resetting to default settings, AGP 4X? Maybe there is an upgrade on MSI's site?

[RobHague]

I got video built in :) but as i said i had a GeforceFX in here before i put in the 9700.

With FX, works fine.

With 9700 wont boot.

Without 9700 using onboard video, works fine.

:)

I think a PSU change is my best option right now. If i get a £113 PSU and it makes no difference ill just give up and wait for the NV35 and never go near another ATI product as long as i live lol.

[Spotch]

Are you using an individual cable from the power supply? Make sure it doesn't share with a Hard disk or anything else. Also I have read issues with the NFORCE 2 AGP and Radeon 9700's before. Have you tried other bios' for the Mobo? Perhaps an earlier one? Also have you tried just the Vidcard and one stick of memory? No Sound card Network card or any other? Have you tried lowering the Memory/CPU settings?

[RobHague]

Are you using an individual cable from the power supply? Make sure it doesn't share with a Hard disk or anything else.

Yep, it has its own molex.

Also I have read issues with the NFORCE 2 AGP and Radeon 9700's before. Have you tried other bios' for the Mobo?

No but i can only go 'back' as i have the very latest currentley.

Perhaps an earlier one? Also have you tried just the Vidcard and one stick of memory? No Sound card Network card or any other? Have you tried lowering the Memory/CPU settings?

I only have one stick of memory and the CPU/Memory settings are not overclocked. However as they work fine without the card i dont see why they would affect it - even if i got the card working by downclocking my PC that still wouldnt be an acceptable situation so even if it does work im still not any better off really. :/

Thanks for the help though :D

[Spotch]

Originally posted by RobHague
Yep, it has its own molex.



No but i can only go 'back' as i have the very latest currentley.



I only have one stick of memory and the CPU/Memory settings are not overclocked. However as they work fine without the card i dont see why they would affect it - even if i got the card working by downclocking my PC that still wouldnt be an acceptable situation so even if it does work im still not any better off really. :/

Thanks for the help though :D

I didnt say down clock just pull back the timings for the memory. Or turn of "Turbo Mode". 'Roman' at Rage 3D forums with the same problem

Quote:

"DRAM Command Rate changed from 1T to 2T changed everything. My rig now runs 100% stable with everything overclocked..."

[RobHague]

Hmmm

Its Corsair XMS3200, the timings are at default though. :)

[eagle17]

Ok I am an ati supporter but if we can prove a n incompatibilty than I think we should prove it.

So far you have just said that it was a POS .... Until there is someone that can reproduce your problem with the same hardware than I think you should refrain from blaiming ATi.. Now if we can get some one to duplicate your issues than great ... I will echo your concerns about ATI's designs...

So if you could just give us your system specs.... we can start work on duplication...