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ricercar
05-08-03, 08:08 PM
In today's conference call with investors, Jensen H. Huang the CEO of NVIDIA said,

"... With NV30 we learned that cycle time for the .13 micron process was really long. This time around, we decided to start production really early in the process, and we had the benefit of doing that because NV35 was perfect for silicon. And so we went directly to production. We started producing NV35s in, at TSMC, in their manufacturing lines, probably in January. Small starts of it and aggressively ramping up."

Product will be on the retail shelves when NVIDIA announces it at E3. It's the only way that NVIDIA can recoup respect from the NV30 debacle.

John Reynolds
05-08-03, 08:10 PM
That "perfect silicon" part worries me, because it suggests that not too much was changed and NV30 needed some drastic improvements, IMO.

Slappi
05-08-03, 08:11 PM
It's times like these when I can sit back and relax with all my NVDA stock I purchased at 8.58 back in October.


WOOHOO!!!!

Lezmaka
05-08-03, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by ricercar
Product will be on the retail shelves when NVIDIA announces it at E3.

Is that something he said, or just what *you* are saying needs to happen?

ricercar
05-08-03, 08:27 PM
Is that something he said, or just what *you* are saying needs to happen?
I didn't think that it was that hard to tell where quotes end on vBulletin post formatting. :rolleyes: Seems pretty clear to me those are my words, but then I confess I was once a college English instructor and these things are second nature to me.

However, to spell it out in plain language for the quotation impaired, here are Jensen's exact words on that matter.
"By the time we announce it, you probably should see products relatively shortly after that."

this is a link to the investor relations page of NVIDIA.com (http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=NVDA&script=1100). If it's still unclear, you can listen to the question about NV35 at approximately 1:22 into today's conference call recording.

Lezmaka
05-08-03, 08:44 PM
I asked because it wasn't clear if that was something he implied or something you thought would happen.

By the time we announce it, you probably should see products relatively shortly after that.

That quote definately doesn't mean you'll be able to buy one when it's announced as you said. Relatively shortly after means after. And going by history in the vid card industry, when someone says something is going to be available relatively shortly after announcement, that usually means a few weeks.

And after listening to the question/answer, it definately seems like it will be a few weeks after announcement.

bkswaney
05-08-03, 09:24 PM
It's going to be like the 9700 and 9800.
U can buy it within 30 days after they tells us about it. :D

Sazar
05-08-03, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
It's going to be like the 9700 and 9800.
U can buy it within 30 days after they tells us about it. :D

it will be good to see nvidia getting back into the shipping of products on time business...

it has been maligned enough as it is for its parts and their hype... it is good to see the customers are not going to be kept waiting for the products they crave :)

bkswaney
05-08-03, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
it will be good to see nvidia getting back into the shipping of products on time business...

it has been maligned enough as it is for its parts and their hype... it is good to see the customers are not going to be kept waiting for the products they crave :)

Yep... I'll get the 35 and put my 5800 in my second PC for my kids games. :)
It will do a fine job on all there games for some time to come.

The 35 is about what I thought it would be. A 9800 killer. :angel:

Sazar
05-08-03, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
Yep... I'll get the 35 and put my 5800 in my second PC for my kids games. :)
It will do a fine job on all there games for some time to come.

The 35 is about what I thought it would be. A 9800 killer. :angel:

in order to be a killer it has to probably meet the levels set by the margin between the 9700pro and the ti4600... THAT was a killer.. everything since has been a speed bump... the nv35 appears to be a performance bump over the nv30... smaller than I thought it would be...

however the performance delta certainly is nice..

I am waiting more for the 'fixes' over the stuff the nv30 was supposedly not doing well or having problems in the hardware...

bkswaney
05-08-03, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
in order to be a killer it has to probably meet the levels set by the margin between the 9700pro and the ti4600... THAT was a killer.. everything since has been a speed bump... the nv35 appears to be a performance bump over the nv30... smaller than I thought it would be...

however the performance delta certainly is nice..

I am waiting more for the 'fixes' over the stuff the nv30 was supposedly not doing well or having problems in the hardware...

I still think it may be 4x2.
But that is not that big of a deal really. I'm sure nvidia made it a little faster in that area.
I think the 128 bus was the biggest down fall. The core had a lot of power but the bus killed it. 256 wide with the other fixes should make for a sweet card.
The ultra should hit 500 anyway. I'm sure it will with aftermarket cooling. This thing should be a monster. "what the nv30 should have been"

peeon
05-08-03, 11:08 PM
I always wondered, maybe the reason for the FlowFX was to cool the too quick memory chips. The memory chips were pumping out to many clocks...which the bus for the gpu cannot handle. Maybe the early samsung chips were very hot or TSMC fabrication sucked bad. Wasnt there a review posted awhile ago...which tested the memory temperatures and gpu temperatures...? If I remember correctly, the memory temperatures were much higher than the gpu.

After Hours:
18.05

+1.99
12.39%

jAkUp
05-08-03, 11:20 PM
nvidia couldnt get the low k on the memory... which significantly decreases the temp

bkswaney
05-08-03, 11:40 PM
Here is a pic of the 5900. :)
The link will not work off the board.
Just copy and past it into your browser. :)

http://www.freewebs.com/bkswaney/fx5900-2b.jpg

mreman4k
05-09-03, 01:07 AM
That heatsink is SWEET:eek: ...too bad it still takes up two PCI slots:( ...if I had the $$$ I'd get it.

OICAspork
05-09-03, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I still think it may be 4x2.
But that is not that big of a deal really. I'm sure nvidia made it a little faster in that area.
I think the 128 bus was the biggest down fall. The core had a lot of power but the bus killed it. 256 wide with the other fixes should make for a sweet card.
The ultra should hit 500 anyway. I'm sure it will with aftermarket cooling. This thing should be a monster. "what the nv30 should have been"

:eek: What do you mean by aftermarket cooling!?! The hsf on that sucker takes up another memory slot! Unless you are talking about watercooling... I don't think you'll find much in the way of aftermarket heatsinks that will beat it. Oh, and it is still 4x2... As far as I can tell the only things that have been changed are: 256-bit bus, bug-fixes (hopefully all of them), and the equivelent to the heirachiel Z stencil buffer thing that the 9800 has.

:edit: Of course... you could always put a FlowFX on it... :thumbsup:

Oh, and it might be a 9800 Pro killer, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the 420/460ish 256MB DDR2 9800s fair against it. Remember ATI said they'd be releasing a 256MB version... actually they said it would be out last month. My guess is they decided to hold off until E3 to take a look at the 5900 line and see what clock speeds they had to hit to be competitive with it.

gokickrocks
05-09-03, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
Here is a pic of the 5900. :)
The link will not work off the board.
Just copy and past it into your browser. :)

http://www.freewebs.com/bkswaney/fx5900-2b.jpg

it looks like the 256mb ddr model...

bkswaney
05-09-03, 02:00 AM
I would not hold my breath to ati clocked there 15nm core over 400 Mhz.
It's won't happen.
If u look at ati's 9800 page they list the 256mb model on there.
It has the same specs as the 128mb 9800. 380 core.

I do not see how the nv35 is a failure. ? :confused:

It looks d@mn sweet to me.
It seems they fixed all the main down falls of the NV30. :)
Also better AF.
This time it has the bandwidth to push AA and AF.

Cowboy... what in the heck do you want from a card?
Why not just go buy u a nice 9800? NV let u down again. :rolleyes:

gokickrocks
05-09-03, 02:07 AM
im some what certain that AA and AF are the same as the nv30, just faster

bkswaney
05-09-03, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by gokickrocks
im some what certain that AA and AF are the same as the nv30, just faster

Nope..

For the NV35 the INTELLISAMPLE was polished and becomes INTELLISAMPLE HTC. The algorithms charged to determine when a color of texture or data Z must be compressed were refined.
Moreover, INTELLISAMPLE HTC introduces techniques of antialiasing and improved filtering anisotropy

OICAspork
05-09-03, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I would not hold my breath to ati clocked there 15nm core over 400 Mhz.
It's won't happen.

Umm... and why not? The yeilds at 400 are very good, in fact most cards can reach them, however ATI decided on 380 because to go higher consistantly and stablely they had to up the voltage beyond what OEMs found acceptable. There is very little (if anything) stopping them from going to the 420 range... hell, they could probably go higher with a two slot cooling solution like that!

I'm sorry, but assuming they can't get another 20mhz out of the 9800 is silly. Look at the tiny hsf it has on it! With higher voltage and an improved cooling solution I think 420 is definitely within reach, possibly more.

Oh, where did you get that intellisample info? I think you are likely to be mistaken when you see the same AA as the NV30... though I think this card will be powerful enough to run AF in aplication mode... but in doing so it will probably negate its performance advantage over the 9800 Pro (not even counting the upgraded model).

bkswaney
05-09-03, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by CoWBoY
Ok, what I want from a videocard is what got me excited about the NV30. Better AA/AF than ATi's offering, better compression techniques than ATi, less of a hit than ATi when using AA/AF, as loud or quiter than the ATi offering (Doesn't look like it is going to happen so I will settle for as loud as ATi's), 256MB of DDR-II if it can be kept cool, CineFX, something like ATi's Tru Form with less of a performance hit, Individual RAMDACS for Dual DVI support (Not one stand alone and one shared for analog), great bundle pack, ability to overclock.

That is what I want from Nvidia. I would be sold on this card if it could deliver that of which I am asking. This would also drive the industry to make larger leaps than what we currently have going on.

I am not anti-Nvidia, I am sure this card is possible... I am wondering when it will be though, before I die I hope. :(


What u ask for may never be done.
I mean come on. You ask for better IQ on AA/AF with no hit?
The better IQ they give it the more of a hit you get.
The more samples=more hit. ATI does a wonderful job on this. " just my 2 cents ;)"

On the dacs. The first cards to get dual DVI will be the work station cards. Most people cannot afford 1 flat pannel. Must less 2. :eek:

Quiet? The NV35 has a regular fan on it with a super nice heatsink. :)
Face it... The higher the core clock the more fan and heatsink it's going to take. Look at todays fastest CPU H/F combo's. The ones that do the best job are bigger and louder.
Get a water cooled system and just H2O cool it. ;) :D
You will see the mother board makers start giving more room soon. The more ATI and Nvida push the envolope the more they are going to need pretty big H/F combo's.
With todays Tech there is no way around it.

If you ask me the Flow FX is the best idea I've ever seen.
It gets the hot air "Out" of you PC case.
If you really heard one in person u would see they r not that dang loud in you case with it closed.
All the mpgs and all were done on table top setups. "open"
Well, everyone bitched so now nv is going to give you what u wanted. The hot air back in the case.
What I like is unless I'm gaming it make 0 sound.

SurfMonkey
05-09-03, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by CoWBoY
I don't know... looks as though Nvidia will be manufacturing the entire card again which says to me that it is still problematic. Especially with the same HSF on it minus the induction chamber... wow, huge improvement.


And what makes you think that nvidia will be manufacturing the card themselves? Do you have some kind of X-ray vision so you can see how complex the board is, and do you have some inside information on how incapable board vendors are at manufacturing a PCB that supports a 256bit bus with DDR. Oh wait a minute aren't the R3xx boards all built the same way. Silly me. Must just be an ATI thing.



Still using the same heatsink over the memory and core. Wonder why we didn't get a screen shot of the back of the card. I bet it is identicle to the FX5800.



The fact they are using the same heat sink over the memory and GPU would seem to suggets that it was pretty efficient and that they chose to use it again. After all it kept the NV30 cool enough to run with the help of the dustbuster. The NV35 must be running a lot cooler to only require a standard fan.



Yep, a real chump... I mean champ again. Looks like I will have to wait for the NV40 after all. Hopefully the statement about the NV35 being a failure will come out faster than the NV30's had. :(



In what way is the NV35 a failure? It provides the same incremental advantage over the NV30 as the R350 did over the R300. Is the R350 a failure by that measure?
The NV35 is a good 20%-50% faster than the R350 with AA and AF which makes it a good 40%-80% faster than the NV30.
ATI were being very naive to think the R350 would be the fastest card out until the end of the year. It may be their fastest card but it won't be the fastest.

SurfMonkey
05-09-03, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by CoWBoY
You honestly believe ATi would sit there and say "ahh shucks, go ahead... you have a better product... you have proven it before?" I believe Nvidia has produced a bandaid to the NV30. I am hoping we do not see that as being a correct assumption.

After all, wasn't the problem with the NV30 TSMC's methods of production? What happen to IBM building the chips? Did you all forget that? Or was it clear as mud that Nvidia ment NV40 and then on?

To tell you the truth, I believe that someone in ATI's managment screwed up when they released the R350 at such low clock speeds. They should have just cemented their lead while they had the chance. Now it seems we are back to the old ATI after the flash of brilliance that ARTX gave them.

The NV30 suffered from a lack resources (half the engineers were working on the XBox), bad process development at TSMC, the lack of low-k. Many things conspired to make the NV30 a sick puppy. But some you win, some you lose. This time I think they are playing to win.

And IBM are going to manufacture an unknown GPU for NV. It's not the NV35 as that is at TSMC and so it most probably will be the NV40. And guess what, IBM say they will be releasing it in Q4 '03, that's at the end of the year. Sadly ATI have cancelled the R400 and won't have a GPU in the same generation out until Q2 '04 at the earliest. Now that sucks. Dave Orton needs to start throwing his weight around again.

StealthHawk
05-09-03, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
What u ask for may never be done.
I mean come on. You ask for better IQ on AA/AF with no hit?
The better IQ they give it the more of a hit you get.
The more samples=more hit. ATI does a wonderful job on this. " just my 2 cents ;)"

Wrong. People have said time and time again that RGMS has little to not hit over OGMS.

Although you are right about the more samples = more hit. But um, ATI's FSAA techniques look better than nvidia's and use the same number of samples.