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Bman212121
06-16-08, 11:54 AM
Despite all that, it just isn't that much of an improvement over cards that are a year and a half old, where as the 8800GTX totally stomped the competition and all of those cards were only a few months old (7900GTX, 7950GX2 and 8800GTX were released within 8 months). In most games, one 8800GTX was faster than or roughly equal to 7950GX2 quad SLI, 7900GTX SLI or x1950xtx crossfire, and those were all high end cards.

Look at either the 9800GTX SLI or 8800GTX SLI versus a single GTX 280. It is basically in the same boat as the 8 series in that respect. The only reason why the 7950GX2 didn't cause the issue that the 9800GX2 is causing now is because it couldn't run AFR2. Most of the games didn't get any advantage with the extra processing power.

One other thing that I would like to note is a lot of the games that are being tested are fairly old. Other than AoC I don't think anything else I saw tested came out this year. I think the long term value of the GTX 280 is really going to show because of the memory advantages the card posseses.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:00 PM
Meh, not enough of an improvement for me to consider buying one.

The only current game that gives me any significant performance problems is Crysis and 10 more fps average is about a quarter of what is needed to smooth that game out.

Looks like I'm saving $600 this time around. :lol:

Some of you guys must really be suffering from short term memory. Have you already forgotten how much the 8800GTX has improved in performance after a few driver releases vs when it was brand new on its first set of drivers? I mean really.........if you do not realize that this card will only get better after a few driver releases and if you really think that this is as good as it will get then you are simply out of your mind.

This card will get better with time and I predict in a couple of months a lot of you guys will be shutting your mouths about some of the things you have said and most of you here complaining about it will end up with a GTX 260 or 280 in your gaming rig. LOL.

Also in all honesty both the GTX 260 and 280 are throwing out some really impressive numbers considering how early the drivers are. It will only get better people, learn to have patience as its way to early in the game to completely write off either card.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:02 PM
can it be that drivers arenīt all that great for these new Nvidia cards?


Bingo! someone who actually gets it. Give it time and it will get better.

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:06 PM
Look at either the 9800GTX SLI or 8800GTX SLI versus a single GTX 280. It is basically in the same boat as the 8 series in that respect. The only reason why the 7950GX2 didn't cause the issue that the 9800GX2 is causing now is because it couldn't run AFR2. Most of the games didn't get any advantage with the extra processing power.

I don't know... the 8800GTX was close to 100% improvement over the previous generation and was either faster or only slightly slower than older cards in SLI.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=22

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=27

The 280 GTX is closer to 50% improvement over the 8800 and 9800 cards and is rarely faster than those cards in SLI.

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA_GeForce_GTX_280_and_GTX_260_Unleashed/?page=11

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:13 PM
Some of you guys must really be suffering from short term memory. Have you already forgotten how much the 8800GTX has improved in performance after a few driver releases vs when it was brand new on its first set of drivers? I mean really.........if you do not realize that this card will only get better after a few driver releases and if you really think that this is as good as it will get then you are simply out of your mind.

This card will get better with time and I predict in a couple of months a lot of you guys will be shutting your mouths about some of the things you have said and most of you here complaining about it will end up with a GTX 260 or 280 in your gaming rig. LOL.

Also in all honesty both the GTX 260 and 280 are throwing out some really impressive numbers considering how early the drivers are. It will only get better people, learn to have patience as its way to early in the game to completely write off either card.
The 8800 GTX was significantly faster the day it was released.

Still, I'd be interested in seeing just how much faster this card is with current drivers compared to ones from back in late '06.

DSC
06-16-08, 12:15 PM
pizzaguy, the 8800GTX SMASHED everything available at its launch on early drivers and later the stupidly overhyped HD2900XT also got SMASHED in due process. It was truly ahead of its time back then.

GTX 280 is well overpriced considering it's not outperforming the GX2 or a pair of 8800GT in SLI which is considerably cheaper than the 280. Even enthusiasts wants value for their money, and $650 for something that's slower than a pair of 8800GT SLI isn't very compelling unless Nvidia releases new drivers like today that can actually show the potential in the card.

Bman212121
06-16-08, 12:16 PM
I don't know... the 8800GTX was close to 100% improvement over the previous generation and was either faster or only slightly slower than older cards in SLI.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=22

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=27

The 280 GTX is closer to 50% improvement over the 8800 and 9800 cards and is rarely faster than those cards in SLI.

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA_GeForce_GTX_280_and_GTX_260_Unleashed/?page=11

Well we are splitting hairs but there is a significant impact depending upon the game and what settings are used to show the comparitive difference. Both of the 8800GTX tests used high res and AA which usually widens the gap between older and newer products. The GTX 280 test is no AA on a game that generally runs bad anyway.

If I pull a best case scenario like World in Conflict, with high resolutions and AA the GTX 280 really shows what it can do if it stretches its legs.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=577&type=expert&pid=13

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:18 PM
The 8800 GTX was significantly faster the day it was released.

Still, I'd be interested in seeing just how much faster this card is with current drivers compared to ones from back in late '06.

And you dont think that the GTX 280 or 260 is not significantly faster than any other single GPU currently available? The only game that really is not showing a big improvement right now is Crysis, other than that both the GTX 280 and 260 are killing the current single 8800 and 9800 series.

Either way you cant argue the fact that its way to early to tell what these new cards can really do.

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:22 PM
I just looked at more of the benchmarks that are out there and the 280 is ridiculously fast in some games... but like I said before, the only game I can think of that desperately needs more performance is Crysis, and the 280 just doesn't do all that much there.

And it doesn't seem like an engine limitation because older cards in SLI are overtaking the 280 easily in those benchmarks.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:23 PM
pizzaguy, the 8800GTX SMASHED everything available at its launch on early drivers and later the stupidly overhyped HD2900XT also got SMASHED in due process. It was truly ahead of its time back then.

Thats true considering it was a brand new architecture and all and the GTX 280 and 260 are really just beefed up 8800 series hardware. However you cannot ignore the fact that in all the other test besides Crysis the Single GTX280 is killing any of the previous single 8800 or 9800 series cards on very very early drivers compared to very mature drivers on the 8800 and 9800 series.

Give it 2 months and the gap will widen even more.


GTX 280 is well overpriced

I will not argue that fact but I really do not know what you guys expected.......I mean this is the same thing that happens with each new GPU release. No surprise to me at all.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:24 PM
but like I said before, the only game I can think of that desperately needs more performance is Crysis, and the 280 just doesn't do all that much there.


And once again this could be due to very very early drivers so dont rule that out just yet. This might be a null point but Crysis sucks anyway imo. :p

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:28 PM
Oh and one more thing, comparing a single GPU to anything else other than another single GPU is kinda dumb. Yes I do realize that you can SLI 8800GT's for less $$$ but not everyone wants to deal with nvidia chipsets and the other numerous issues that are related to SLI.

Give it a couple of months and the prices will be down along with much better drivers, early adapters always pay the price. I know I learned my lesson with the 8800GTX so this time I will sit back happily with my single 8800GT until the dust settles.

DSC
06-16-08, 12:28 PM
What was expected? Something that will outperform the GX2 considering it has a lot more optimised execution units, larger register file, higher texturing performance, 140GB/s bandwidth vs around 70GB/s for the GX2, 1GB framebuffer so it doesn't choke once you go over 512MB of textures like the 512MB cards do when you use super high res and AA and it won't have the micro-stuttering that cripples both SLI or Misfire multi-GPU solutions.

Micro-stuttering is easy, it's a single GPU so it doesn't have that. Everything else, so far not delivered upon yet.

Bman212121
06-16-08, 12:32 PM
I just looked at more of the benchmarks that are out there and the 280 is ridiculously fast in some games... but like I said before, the only game I can think of that desperately needs more performance is Crysis, and the 280 just doesn't do all that much there.

And it doesn't seem like an engine limitation because older cards in SLI are overtaking the 280 easily in those benchmarks.

I would agree completely. I'm not really sure what is going on in Crysis but it could be a bug that needs to be addressed.

I think part of the problem is everyone can't get passed this game as their primary comparision because it is the "system killer". However, one game cannot paint a picture for every other game on the market. It gives you a general idea (much like 3dmark) but as we've seen with 3dmark it can vary significantly.

If you saw I made a little edit a couple of posts ago, I really do think that once we get a couple of other games like Crysis that come out this year (ie Alan Wake) they might have even bigger gaps between older and newer hardware.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:33 PM
What was expected? Something that will outperform the GX2 considering it has a lot more optimised execution units, larger register file, higher texturing performance, 140GB/s bandwidth vs around 70GB/s for the GX2, 1GB framebuffer so it doesn't choke once you go over 512MB of textures like the 512MB cards do when you use super high res and AA and it won't have the micro-stuttering that cripples both SLI or Misfire multi-GPU solutions.

Micro-stuttering is easy, it's a single GPU so it doesn't have that. Everything else, so far not delivered upon yet.


Once again you are not comparing apples to apples.......a single GPU should be compared against another single GPU, not a GX2 card or 8800GT's in SLI.


Im not gonna get in a pissing match here but you are really calling the shots way to early on the GTX 280. Give it a few driver revisions and then you will have something to talk about if it does not get better, until then its to early to tell.

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:35 PM
I would agree completely. I'm not really sure what is going on in Crysis but it could be a bug that needs to be addressed.

I think part of the problem is everyone can't get passed this game as their primary comparision because it is the "system killer". However, one game cannot paint a picture for every other game on the market. It gives you a general idea (much like 3dmark) but as we've seen with 3dmark it can vary significantly.

Very well said and Crysis IMO is a complete failure. I would not be surprised if that game doesnt ever perform the way that it should, EA is not even gonna bother with anymore patches because they know its a waste of time even though they will never admit to it.

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:41 PM
I would agree completely. I'm not really sure what is going on in Crysis but it could be a bug that needs to be addressed.

I think part of the problem is everyone can't get passed this game as their primary comparision because it is the "system killer". However, one game cannot paint a picture for every other game on the market. It gives you a general idea (much like 3dmark) but as we've seen with 3dmark it can vary significantly.

Yeah, if it weren't for Crysis, this would be a great improvement.

Still not as much as the 8800 was at release, but definitely a solid jump in speed.

I guess the 8800 series was just too damned efficient for its own good. Its hard to improve on it apparently.

If I had a large amount of money to burn i might buy a 280, but it just doesn't seem reasonable considering I play all my games (except crysis) at 2048x1536 or 1600x1200 already. Being able to add 4xAA would be nice, but its not worth $600 to me. :)

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:47 PM
If I had a large amount of money to burn i might buy a 280, but it just doesn't seem reasonable considering I play all my games (except crysis) at 2048x1536 or 1600x1200 already. Being able to add 4xAA would be nice, but its not worth $600 to me. :)

I am in the same boat, I have a 22inch LCD and game at 1680X1050 and my trusty 8800GT is plenty for most games at that resolution along with 4XAA and 16XAF.

Maybe in the fall I will consider upgrading but for now I am happy with my $150.00 card.

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:49 PM
Another thing worth noting is that most of these benchmarks done at really high resolutions with AA enabled are most likely making the 512Mb cards run out of memory, which will lower average framerates quite a bit. If you look at benchmarks that list the 8800GTX and Ultra along with the 512Mb cards, the GTX and Ultra tend to perform much closer to the 280.

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=614&pagenumber=11

The 280 is 32% faster than the 9800GTX and only 11% faster than the 8800GTX at 1920x1200 in STALKER.

Just something I noticed. :)

BTW, has anyone seen any Mass Effect benchmarks? It runs fine for me at 1600x1200 with no AA, but another 20fps average and 4xAA wouldn't hurt. :p

Bman212121
06-16-08, 12:53 PM
Very well said and Crysis IMO is a complete failure. I would not be surprised if that game doesnt ever perform the way that it should, EA is not even gonna bother with anymore patches because they know its a waste of time even though they will never admit to it.

I wouldn't say that Crysis is a complete failure at all. It is by far one of the best looking games on the market right now. When they designed the game they were likely able to exploit a few features on the 8 series cards that allowed them to get some extra performance. A new card came out and maybe some of those tweaks no longer work due to changes, so someone needs to figure out what is holding the card back and get it fully optimized.

The biggest hump that this game had is it doesn't run well on most hardware that was available on launch. To me it is a double edged sword. They are touting the best graphics but in order to run the game smoothly you can't turn them up which kind of defeated the purpose. This card gets its performance much closer but it wouldn't make much sense for Nvidia to design a card around 1 game.

ASUSEN7900GTX
06-16-08, 12:54 PM
wonder what the GTX280 can do in Crysis with 8xAA/8XAF @1680x1050

or any other game for that matter

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:55 PM
In all honesty a lot of people just need to get their noses out of the Crysis benchmarks and look at the others because its impossible to say that the GTX280 is not impressive considering its on launch drivers and competing against cards that are on very mature drivers.

Crysis is a failure and EA has given up on it so you may as well just get over it and move along as its not the only game out there to play anyway.

You cant ignore the other benches out there and you certainly cannot deny that this isnt an impressive leap considering the early state of drivers.


http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/images/pf800.gif



http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/images/cod2800.gif


http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/images/cod41280.gif



http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/images/bio1600.gif



And whats all this talk about the GX2 anway? because unless we are talking about Crysis it looks to me that this single GPU has no problem with the GX2 and this is on early drivers.

After a few price drops and some revised drivers this will be the card to beat!

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:57 PM
I wouldn't say that Crysis is a complete failure at all. It is by far one of the best looking games on the market right now.

Dont take this as an insult but are graphics all that really matter to you? if so then Crysis is your game.......... yeah it looks good but the game is crap and even EA knows it. I need more than just something pretty to look at.

CaptNKILL
06-16-08, 12:57 PM
I wouldn't say that Crysis is a complete failure at all. It is by far one of the best looking games on the market right now. When they designed the game they were likely able to exploit a few features on the 8 series cards that allowed them to get some extra performance. A new card came out and maybe some of those tweaks no longer work due to changes, so someone needs to figure out what is holding the card back and get it fully optimized.

The biggest hump that this game had is it doesn't run well on most hardware that was available on launch. To me it is a double edged sword. They are touting the best graphics but in order to run the game smoothly you can't turn them up which kind of defeated the purpose. This card gets its performance much closer but it wouldn't make much sense for Nvidia to design a card around 1 game.

I thought Crysis was fantastic (up till the carrier level at the end... that sucked...) and the graphics and art design were completely mind blowing. If any game deserves the graphics crown, its Crysis.

I look forward to playing it again every time I upgrade. It looked amazing at tweaked high settings at 1280x960 with no AA, and ran ok most of the time. At higher resolutions with full details and smoother framerates it can only be better. :)

pizzaguy
06-16-08, 12:59 PM
wonder what the GTX280 can do in Crysis with 8xAA/8XAF @1680x1050

or any other game for that matter



Umm.......earth to Asusen earth to Asusen.