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Shadowx
05-12-03, 08:47 PM
SO is this THE CARD to play Doom [l] on? or are we still months away to have THE DOOM CARD?

Rogozhin
05-12-03, 08:52 PM
hm

we're 6 months away from d3 and who knows how long from the card that will play it at 1280,960 8x AF and 6x AA with all details at 50fps.

rogo

Humus
05-12-03, 09:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if R400 would be out by the time DoomIII is released. Maybe we will see a refresh from nVidia too before that.

GlowStick
05-12-03, 10:04 PM
with enough configging you can run doom3 on a geforce 3, but anand and hardocp tested that these current GEN cards are not ready to play doom3 wiht AA and AF on! maybe 2xaa at best : \

The Baron
05-12-03, 10:07 PM
Performance will improve greatly by the time Dom 3 is released and with future driver revisions.

So... NV35 will probably be a more viable choice than R350, although neither will be a slouch.

StealthHawk
05-13-03, 12:11 AM
Considering that neither ATI nor nvidia have optimized for Doom3 yet, and with the fact that Doom3 won't be here for at least 3 months, I wouldn't worry about it quite yet.

I would have to guess that the NV35 will win though.

Lezmaka
05-13-03, 12:25 AM
If Doom 3 were released today, then I'd probably say yes, but who knows what ATI could do with drivers and who knows what cards will be available when the game is actually released.

GlowStick
05-13-03, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by Lezmaka
If Doom 3 were released today, then I'd probably say yes, but who knows what ATI could do with drivers and who knows what cards will be available when the game is actually released.

Well if the past is any indication

Cat 3.0 to 3.1 = Preformance decrease
Cat 3.1 to 3.2 = Preformance decrease
Cat 3.2 to 3.4beta = Preformance decrease with werid problems

Ovioulsy the bugs will be fixed before 3.4 is released.

Rampant CL
05-13-03, 01:45 AM
He he, i would just like to point out that if doom III were to be released tomorrow, im sure almsot every gamer who has heard of ID would buy it, and find a way to make thier card "The Card For Doom III"

Nv40
05-13-03, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Well if the past is any indication

Cat 3.0 to 3.1 = Preformance decrease
Cat 3.1 to 3.2 = Preformance decrease
Cat 3.2 to 3.4beta = Preformance decrease with werid problems

Ovioulsy the bugs will be fixed before 3.4 is released.


hehe ,... i think ATI shoot themselves in their Foots ,
releasing their overclocked R350 with 256megs ,at the
same time that NVidia Nv35.. IMO.. they were looking to
steal the show of the Nv35 launch.. but it never happened..
but the opposite ,it only demostrated that ATI was not
ready to launch that card.. more with the BUgs in the CAT 3.4b drivers.

the last thing ATI needs is more bad press ,that the one ,
they already have with their drivers.. holding it abit more 1week
or 2 with their new r350 , at least their drivers will be more polished
and their launch will look in a better light.

but thanks ,to their "we never lose" Ego ,Nvidia now killed not one
but two birds with one shot :)

what they need is to launch their R390 ,we need the competition
to keep ATI and Nvidia enigineers busy with innovations .. :)

fantomas
05-13-03, 02:55 AM
for the record i've got a ti200.. nv20 i believe. anyway...

from the benchmarks volt put on the front page, and from toms hardware

"To say that the graphics are a revelation and a veritable firework of effects that pushes graphics hardware to its limits would still be an understatement..."

its obvious the answer to the question is to wait till the game is out, then buy the absolute best bestest card that's out!:cool:

Shadowx
05-13-03, 11:38 AM
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9470

r360 WTF??? they went from 325(9700) to 380(9800)
9900?[425(too damn small) or 450(yeah baby)]

GlowStick
05-13-03, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Shadowx
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9470

r360 WTF??? they went from 325(9700) to 380(9800)
9900?[425(too damn small) or 450(yeah baby)]
werid uttar or mufu hasent said anything about a r360.

Hellbinder
05-13-03, 12:13 PM
Considering that neither ATI nor nvidia have optimized for Doom3 yet, and with the fact that Doom3 won't be here for at least 3 months, I wouldn't worry about it quite yet.

I would have to guess that the NV35 will win though.

That is complete BS. Nvidia optomized the hell out of their driver for Doom-III. dont kid yourself. Anand is talking out of his a$$ if he tries to claim otherwise. Nvidia engineered the whole thing in a few days for the very purpose of showing their Nv35 in a good light. they knew full well that ATi was not even told the demo was going to happen. And yes i know this for a fact.

I would not get all fired up over which card is teh best for doom-III until Ati gets a chance to showcase properly optomized drivers. Of course lets not forget that Nvidia is not running in ARB2, but in choked down Nv30 mode...

Further the R360 will be out (introduced) in about 60 days. Which will completely leapfrog the Nv35 in performance accross the board, especially Doom-III.

Hellbinder
05-13-03, 12:34 PM
Cowboy..

Who really knows what the hell Ati is thinking. Comming out with yet another chip this soon is just LAME. :rolleyes:

All they had to do from the start is release the 9800pro at correct clock speeds.. Crap It would not have even been a hard thing to do. All the 9800pro needs is some decently clocked ram on it and it would be beat the Nv35 in AA+AF tests as it is. :rolleyes:

I will never, never, never Understand what the hell They were thinking not releasing the 9800pro at 400/460.

The Baron
05-13-03, 12:51 PM
ATI is oversaturating the market with far-too-similar chips. They've all but gone the GeForce 4 route of having 3 cards whose only real difference is clockspeeds, except they have a lot more than 3 cards (9500 Pro, 9600 Pro, 9700, 9700 Pro, 9800 Pro, and enhanced 9800 Pro, and now R360?! And then R390?!).

There's a big problem with this. GF4 was successful because nVidia waited for prices to drop. They probably could've released a refresh with a faster clocked core and ram to try to undercut R300 (wouldn't have worked, but the price/performance would've been VERY close), but they counted on NV30 and TSMC to get the job done. So, that kinda didn't work. But, GF4s were still popular because of the fantastic price/performance ratio. If there's no clear winner between NV35 and R350, there's a problem for ATI. nVidia has clearly defined "value" cards--ATI does not. It has:

the 9000, the 9100, the 9200 (I think), the 9500, the 9500 Pro, the 9600 Pro (is there a non-Pro?), the 9700, the 9700 Pro, the 9800 Pro (is there a non-Pro once again?), and the "enhanced" 9800 Pro.

That's absurd.

Anyway, ATI had better release a be-all-end-all card like they did with the Radeon 9700 Pro or at least wait for prices to drop (can you find a retail Radeon 9700 for less than 250, even though there are now 3 cards from the same company that are superior? I'd be surprised).

Too many choices is, actually, a bad thing.

Solomon
05-13-03, 12:54 PM
I want my Dual DVI card!
:fu: :fu: :fu:

You would think that the card would come with this standard now-a-days considering the cost of these cards are getting outrageous! Matrox can do it on cards that cost $140.00 Why can't ATi nor Nvidia do this on their $500.00 cards? Makes no sense to me...

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

The Baron
05-13-03, 12:56 PM
Whoa, you actually think that there is a large market for a dual DVI card with no VGA port? Unless they included a DVI->VGA adapter, that card would go a big nowhere.

Matrox can because they're business-only cards, and most businesses nowadays are converting to LCDs because of the savings in space and heat (and maybe power consumption?).

Deimos
05-13-03, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Whoa, you actually think that there is a large market for a dual DVI card with no VGA port? Unless they included a DVI->VGA adapter, that card would go a big nowhere.Maybe the market isn't that big yet, but it sure is bigger than none :)

If someone produces a dual-dvi card based on NV35, then that's the card I'll get. LCD-sales are up significantly, and a lot of those have DVIs

/Deimos

Solomon
05-13-03, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Whoa, you actually think that there is a large market for a dual DVI card with no VGA port? Unless they included a DVI->VGA adapter, that card would go a big nowhere.

Matrox can because they're business-only cards, and most businesses nowadays are converting to LCDs because of the savings in space and heat (and maybe power consumption?).

About 90% of the retail market for video cards already put a DVI-VGA connector in the box. So I don't see why having Dual-DVI instead of 1 DVI and 1 VGA now-a-days. Especially if I'm dropping $500.00 dimes on a video card.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

GlowStick
05-13-03, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Deimos
Maybe the market isn't that big yet, but it sure is bigger than none :)

If someone produces a dual-dvi card based on NV35, then that's the card I'll get. LCD-sales are up significantly, and a lot of those have DVIs

/Deimos


THough, i dont have a lcd 'now' after gettign a DVI port, i want one really bad. Its just there waiting to be used!!!!!!!

StealthHawk
05-13-03, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by CoWBoY
I think I am going Nvidia after because I am a little pissed off at both companies right now, yet Nvidia is not pissing me off as bad now.

What I am wondering is how many more chips is ATi going to come out with? Dec. was the 9500Pro, April was the R350, RV350, RV280 and now we are looking at the R360 and RV360?

Nahh... I had enough and I think the FX5900 Ultra will do everything I want at High res with 2 to 4xAA.

NV30 was crap and they made up for it with this.

NV31/NV34 are crud too but atleast one came out as intended.

Now NV36....

Pisses me off, so I will just make myself semi-happy with a FX5900Ultra..

Don't forget the new gfFX5600Ultra (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11695) :p Makes me think that NV36 isn't due for a while, otherwise there would be no point in respining NV31.

hithere
05-13-03, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
nVidia has clearly defined "value" cards--ATI does not. It has:

the 9000, the 9100, the 9200 (I think), the 9500, the 9500 Pro, the 9600 Pro (is there a non-Pro?), the 9700, the 9700 Pro, the 9800 Pro (is there a non-Pro once again?), and the "enhanced" 9800 Pro.

That's absurd.


I think you're rattling off a list of cards that aren't necessarily all still in production, nor are they even based on the same chip. Similarly, I could say that Nvidia has Ti4200, 4400, 4600, 4800, FX 5800, 5600, 5200, and the MX series GF-4 in all it's glory, and now they want to release a 5900. So why is ATI "absurd" again? And which of these is the "clearly defined value part"? I think I can find a price/performance match for every one of these cards in an ATI counterpart, with the possible exception of the 5900.

MrNasty
05-13-03, 03:51 PM
Just close your eyes these bechmarks never took place.

The Baron
05-13-03, 04:17 PM
All of those ATI cards came out within 9 months. That's absurd.

The NV3X cards are all from this year, and the rest are from 2001 (unless you count Ti4800, in which case I laugh at you).