So I got second GTX280

[Lfctony]

And my advice is to ignore Shocky, because he's wrong. I have tested games around or 10-15fps below 60fps, and this "microstuttering" is not noticeable when comparing to a single card. So, I call bull#$&%.

In fact, when enabling high amounts of AA in games like Oblivion, a single GPU setup actually ruins the experience by dropping into the 20s which is very choppy compared to a two-card setup that cruises along at 40+fps. During these tests there was no "lagging" or "stuttering" at all when ~45fps on the Crossfire setup. But there was tons of it on the single GPU:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8262/oblivion1hz8.jpg


Again man, what someone doesn't notice, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. People perceive things others don't. Other people experience things others don't notice until told... Again, if you don't notice it, it doesn't mean its not there. As I said, I have taken out my second GTX and I'm only using one. Wouldn't you think I'd notice if the dual card setup was smoother or the same as my single card? The hitches are gone, the sudden frame rate drops are gone... Sure, I can only run Crysis on High now, but it's not as if the experience on V.High was much better... In fact, it was worse... The issue exists, it's been documented again and again... Is everyone making stuff up?

[Xion X2]

Again man, what someone doesn't notice, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. People perceive things others don't.

It can also work in opposition. What one perceives may be all in their head.

If I perceive a pink elephant across the room dressed in polka-dot boxer shorts, does it mean that he exists?

Other people experience things others don't notice until told

Precisely the point. It's a lot easier to see something after someone else puts the idea in your head, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's an accurate perception.

For the record, I'm not saying that microstuttering does not exist. I've seen the research and graphs and can follow the logic. But this issue is way, way, WAY overblown to the point of being ridiculous now. People are paranoid about an issue that rears its head maybe 1-2% of the time on multi-GPU configs in a way that can be perceived. And even when it does occur, it's usually a productive tradeoff since 35-45fps--the point it seems to occur at--is still about double the framerate they would get on a single card in that situation.

The bottom line is that if your setup is strong enough to push 45+ fps on a consistent basis in the games you play, then you will probably NEVER notice this issue.

[Lfctony]

It can also work in opposition. What one perceives may be all in their head.

If I perceive a pink elephant across the room dressed in polka-dot boxer shorts, does it mean that he exists?



Precisely the point. It's a lot easier to see something after someone else puts the idea in your head, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's an accurate perception.

For the record, I'm not saying that microstuttering does not exist. I've seen the research and graphs and can follow the logic. But this issue is way, way, WAY overblown to the point of being ridiculous now. People are paranoid about an issue that rears its head maybe 1-2% of the time on multi-GPU configs in a way that can be perceived. And even when it does occur, it's usually a productive tradeoff since 35-45fps--the point it seems to occur at--is still about double the framerate they would get on a single card in that situation.

The bottom line is that if your setup is strong enough to push 45+ fps on a consistent basis in the games you play, then you will probably NEVER notice this issue.

A pink elephant noticed by 1000 people is not the same as an elephant noticed by one person. Here, I'm the only only that's experienced it...

Regarding micro-stuttering, nobody put the idea in my head. I knew it existed, I thought I might not notice it, I did, and I didn't like it. So, there. Nobody came and pointed it out, I compared things myself and decided... If it exists, which you admit it probably does, it's all up to preference and you can't dictate to people what to do, just because it doesn't bother you or you haven't noticed it. Whether people choose to let it bother them or not, is up to them... Don't you agree?

[Heinz68]

A pink elephant noticed by 1000 people is not the same as an elephant noticed by one person. Here, I'm the only only that's experienced it...

Regarding micro-stuttering, nobody put the idea in my head. I knew it existed, I thought I might not notice it, I did, and I didn't like it. So, there. Nobody came and pointed it out, I compared things myself and decided... If it exists, which you admit it probably does, it's all up to preference and you can't dictate to people what to do, just because it doesn't bother you or you haven't noticed it. Whether people choose to let it bother them or not, is up to them... Don't you agree?
Just in case somebody in this tread dictates to people what to do, the same would apply to you.
Anyway what's so hard to understand that somebody else latest crossfire set-up might not exactly be the same like your SLI set-up. Or maybe they're using it more wisely. If somebody doesn't notice the microstuttering why try to convince them they must.
People can only report they own experience same like you do yours.

[Lfctony]

Just in case somebody in this tread dictates to people what to do, the same would apply to you.
Anyway what's so hard to understand that somebody else latest crossfire set-up might not exactly be the same like your SLI set-up. Or maybe they're using it more wisely. If somebody doesn't notice the microstuttering why try to convince them they must.
People can only report they own experience same like you do yours.

Xion X2 said it's blown way out of proportion and that he calls bull****... That's like calling people crazy and that it doesn't exist. As I said in my post, not all people notice it, but you can't say we're crazy because we're bothered by it. My point is it exists, some people are bothered by it, others are not, others don't even know it's there... I tried SLI, didn't like it, switched back. I never dictated anything to people, just to acknowledge that there is such an issue that maybe not everyone notices and it should be dealt with... Was I wrong somehow? Xion X2 wasn't reporting on his experience only, he was basically saying we're nuts... Acknowledging something doesn't mean experiencing something first hand. It means accepting its existence, ie knowing about it...

And AFAIK, people with 4870s have experienced it as well. So it's still there with the latest generation of cards, supposedly lessened but still present.

[dookika]

For the record, I'm not saying that microstuttering does not exist. I've seen the research and graphs and can follow the logic. But this issue is way, way, WAY overblown to the point of being ridiculous now.

I agree with this 100%. Back when I had SLI'd 8800GTX's the only game that gave me any stuttering issues at all was Oblivion which also stutters on a single card but was a little worse on my SLI'd 8800's.


Every other game I played was just as smooth as with a single card so I have to say that I also think this microstuttering stuff is grossly exaggerated as well especially since Microstuttering is supposed to be even less of an issue with both the HD 4870's and the 200 series.

[Heinz68]

Xion X2 said it's blown way out of proportion and that he calls bull****... That's like calling people crazy and that it doesn't exist. As I said in my post, not all people notice it, but you can't say we're crazy because we're bothered by it. My point is it exists, some people are bothered by it, others are not, others don't even know it's there... I tried SLI, didn't like it, switched back. I never dictated anything to people, just to acknowledge that there is such an issue that maybe not everyone notices and it should be dealt with... Was I wrong somehow? Xion X2 wasn't reporting on his experience only, he was basically saying we're nuts... Acknowledging something doesn't mean experiencing something first hand. It means accepting its existence, ie knowing about it...

And AFAIK, people with 4870s have experienced it as well. So it's still there with the latest generation of cards, supposedly lessened but still present.
Ok lets say you're right.
Before I did reply I noticed you're going out of your way warning people about the microstuttering and what they should or shouldn't buy. So it almost looked to me like you have an agenda.

Ok lets say you're very nice guy helping people to save money.

But that also is not the case. Your signature SLI/Crossfire FTL! is no more warning. Telling people after the fact they purchased the 2 card system that they're losers doesn't help them any.
On top most off them are probably very happy with what they have so why try to spoil the fun.

The bottom line is why do you think calling people losers is any better than calling them crazy? plus the crazy calling was only your conclusion.

[Xion X2]

NM. Double-post.

[dookika]

Ok lets say you're right.
Before I did reply I noticed you're going out of your way warning people about the microstuttering and what they should or shouldn't buy. So it almost looked to me like you have an agenda.

Ok lets say you're very nice guy helping people to save money.

But that also is not the case. Your signature SLI/Crossfire FTL! is no more warning. Telling people after the fact they purchased the 2 card system that they're losers doesn't help them any.
On top most off them are probably very happy with what they have so why try to spoil the fun.

The bottom line is why do you think calling people losers is any better than calling them crazy? plus the crazy calling was only your conclusion.


Good call Heinz68, he is also slamming the HD 4870X2 in a completely different thread and calling it the king of Microstutter :rolleyes2

Sounds like he is having buyers remorse over his 2 GTX 280's.

[Xion X2]

Xion X2 said it's blown way out of proportion and that he calls bull****... That's like calling people crazy

Don't be so melodramatic. I never called anyone crazy; I'm simply saying that people have taken this idea of a performance hit and just blown it out of proportion. It's being grossly exaggerated--far above the realism of the issue. I have actually sat here for the past month or so and bit my tongue whenever this subject came up, but like you, I have my own experience and opinion based on that experience. And I have every right to express it.

I'll tell you what needs to happen. Science needs to be involved here. We need someone to conduct research on what the human eye can actually see and the % of time this variance in framerate could really be noticed by your average individual. Until then, these arguments and "perceptions" will remain relatively pointless as they are subjective viewpoints.

[dookika]

nm

[dookika]

nm

[dookika]

nm

[slaWter]

Back in the day with my older 7 and 8 series SLI systems I never noticed any stuttering. Every game was totally smooth with high frame rates. Then I went back to single card systems and got a 9800GX2 earlier this year. Most of the games were ok, no stuttering because the card was fast enough for high frame rates. But there was Crysis ;) Frame rate was higher than with the 8800GTX (or GTX 280) but the stuttering was definitely there.
I think most gamers, including me, don't notice the stuttering because the frame rate is high enough and the SLI/CF systems have more than enough power for most situations.

If anyone want to test if he/she can see the stuttering, Crysis is a very good test.

[XxDeadlyxX]

Got new 750i motherboard today, so finally have my 2 GTX 280's installed, I'll report soon if I notice any stuttering.

[hell_of_doom227]

I have two GTX280 in SLI, it works perfect games like Crysis, Frontline Fuel of War, UT3, Lost Planet, GRID

[Lfctony]

Jesus Christ. Nobody is calling people losers. FTL is For the Loss. I don't consider it the best thing around, hence my signature...
2. My point Xion X2 is not whether people should notice it and we should have research and all that... The point is it's an issue that's present, some people notice it and companys like Nvidia and ATI should deal with it, make it one of their priorities... That's my "agenda" Heinz68, if you're looking for one.
3. Dookika, you're new here, so you're excused for not knowing the reason I own a second GTX280. I didn't expect my GTX280 to be accepted by BFG for an RMA. So I got another one. When the first card also came back, I decided to try SLI. No buyer's remorse here, because SLI was not what I intended to do.

And all of you choose to forget certain parts of my posts, while you pick on others... Notice that I said that I will give SLI another try once drivers have matured... What does that mean? Well it means giving SLI the benefit of the doubt and a chance to impove by the time I decide to give it another go.

Anyway, I'll stop. I'll remove my signature since it bothers people so much. You guys keep ignoring an issue, just because it doesn't bother you or you haven't experienced it. We'll see how you choose to react when you face a problem nobody seems to care about.

Tony.

[dookika]

Jesus Christ. Nobody is calling people losers. FTL is For the Loss. I don't consider it the best thing around, hence my signature...
2. My point Xion X2 is not whether people should notice it and we should have research and all that... The point is it's an issue that's present, some people notice it and companys like Nvidia and ATI should deal with it, make it one of their priorities... That's my "agenda" Heinz68, if you're looking for one.
3. Dookika, you're new here, so you're excused for not knowing the reason I own a second GTX280. I didn't expect my GTX280 to be accepted by BFG for an RMA. So I got another one. When the first card also came back, I decided to try SLI. No buyer's remorse here, because SLI was not what I intended to do.

And all of you choose to forget certain parts of my posts, while you pick on others... Notice that I said that I will give SLI another try once drivers have matured... What does that mean? Well it means giving SLI the benefit of the doubt and a chance to impove by the time I decide to give it another go.

Anyway, I'll stop. I'll remove my signature since it bothers people so much. You guys keep ignoring an issue, just because it doesn't bother you or you haven't experienced it. We'll see how you choose to react when you face a problem nobody seems to care about.

Tony.

Props to you for fixing your sig as you might not agree but it did make you look like you were bashing on multi GPU setups, so again, thanks for fixing it.

Some people like multi GPU setups and others like you and I are content with just 1 powerful GPU. To each his own is what I say. :)