View Full Version : Forcing AA, AF & Vsync through CCC?
Well I finally went with the ATI HD 4870 but already I think I made a mistake and not get the GTX 260.
I have a problem with the CCC and forcing AA, AF & Vsync.
For example I tried World in Conflict benchmark and turned all AA & AF, Vsync, etc. options off in game and set all to MAX in CCC but the game is still doing the benchmark at it's own settings - how do I force the CCC to override game settings?
And it's not just this game it's also BF2142 and Testdrive unlimited - in none of the games CCC options I select don't seem to work?
I can't use Ati tray tools as I'm on Vista 64 and all that fiddeling about to make it work is just too much for me.
Ther is no problem with forcing AA, AF & Vsync in Nvidias CP but ATI CCC is just terrible.
Here is some proof:
Please klick on the images and than klick on them again to see the full size picture.
First is AA enabled in game and everything works fine:
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/57ccca3501535.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/57ccca3501535)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/5d3b643501533.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/5d3b643501533)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/ad31c13501534.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/ad31c13501534)
See how rails are all nice and fine ...
and now the horrible CCC experience:
here are the CCC settings I made
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/e1e5a93501536.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/e1e5a93501536)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/2637473501537.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/2637473501537)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/a72d893501538.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/a72d893501538)
in game settings
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/a24a2a3501539.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/a24a2a3501539)
and the horrible result with all the jaggies:
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/01a23c3501540.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/01a23c3501540)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/14f9a13501541.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/14f9a13501541)
http://thumbnails.freeimagehost.eu/351/5cef903501542.gif (http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/5cef903501542)
I'm gaming at 1280x1024 and AA is very important for me. I had no such problems forcing the AA at 8800 GTX from Nvidia but ATI's CCC is just horrible.
What can I do?
Xion X2
08-04-08, 01:23 PM
See my reply in this thread.
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=116279
If that still doesn't work well enough for you then try disabling the "Catalyst AI" option and forcing AA through the driver.
Ok I have tried that but something I don't understand for example
I have set AA in battlefield 2142 to 8x and than in ATI CCC like you said but soon as I ticked ''use application setting'' the number jumps from 24x to just 8x. So there must be something wrong here.
Also if this works than what about AF and Vsync wich aren't options to choose from in game?
Also you mention to use AA from one or the other (CCC or game) - well see here is the problem. If I disable the AA totally in game and set it to whatever walue in CCC it doesn't kick in - so no AA is taking effect when playing game.
Thx
Xion X2
08-04-08, 02:29 PM
Here's how it works.
ATI has different AA methods: Box, Narrow Tent, Wide Tent and Edge-Detect.
AA that runs on VRAM: Box (also known as Multisampling AA)
AA that runs on shaders: Narrow Tent, Wide Tent, Edge Detect
AA settings in-game are always based on multisampling or supersampling methods. You cannot enable both in-game MSAA and CCC MSAA; the driver gets confused. Nvidia's will override the in-game setting when it can, but even it will only use one or the other (which is usually the driver MSAA setting.)
For games that support in-game AA, this should always be used when running an ATI card. If you desire a higher level of AA than what's offered in-game, then set one of the shader-based AA filters such as Edge Detect, for example. When setting the Edge Detect filter, it runs 12x shader-based AA in combination with 4xMSAA in-game. When setting ED on 8xMSAA in-game it will give you an effective 24xAA.
The shader-based AA methods are compatible with in-game AA. The MSAA (Box) methods is not. So for games that don't support AA in-game, set your CCC panel to "Box" and select either 2x, 4x or 8x for a single card setup.
Here's how it works.
ATI has different AA methods: Box, Narrow Tent, Wide Tent and Edge-Detect.
AA that runs on VRAM: Box (also known as Multisampling AA)
AA that runs on shaders: Narrow Tent, Wide Tent, Edge Detect
AA settings in-game are always based on multisampling or supersampling methods. You cannot enable both in-game MSAA and CCC MSAA; the driver gets confused. Nvidia's will override the in-game setting when it can, but even it will only use one or the other (which is usually the driver MSAA setting.)
For games that support in-game AA, this should always be used when running an ATI card. If you desire a higher level of AA than what's offered in-game, then set one of the shader-based AA filters such as Edge Detect, for example. When setting the Edge Detect filter, it runs 12x shader-based AA in combination with 4xMSAA in-game. When setting ED on 8xMSAA in-game it will give you an effective 24xAA.
The shader-based AA methods are compatible with in-game AA. The MSAA (Box) methods is not. So for games that don't support AA in-game, set your CCC panel to "Box" and select either 2x, 4x or 8x for a single card setup.
Ok thank you your posts are very helpfull but still what happens to AF and Vsync - how do I force those if there aren't any options in game?
Xion X2
08-04-08, 02:57 PM
Ok thank you your posts are very helpfull but still what happens to AF and Vsync - how do I force those if there aren't any options in game?
Force them both through the CCC; they should take. You can find them both under "All Settings."
Also, I left something out. If running one of the shader AA filters (Edge Detect, for ex.) combined with in-game AA, make sure that your AA setting in CCC is checked to "application settings." That will disable the MSAA in the CCC and apply only the shader-based AA to the game. If running AA only from the CCC, uncheck "application settings" since you'll be forcing MSAA through the driver.
Force them both through the CCC; they should take. You can find them both under "All Settings."
Also, I left something out. If running one of the shader AA filters (Edge Detect, for ex.) combined with in-game AA, make sure that your AA setting in CCC is checked to "application settings." That will disable the MSAA in the CCC and apply only the shader-based AA to the game. If running AA only from the CCC, uncheck "application settings" since you'll be forcing MSAA through the driver.
Ok I seem to be getting there slowly :)
But here is where we don't understand each other - if I select 8x AA in game and AA setting in CCC is checked to "application settings" and set to Edge Detect all is ok, but if I set AA in game to OFF and uncheck "application settings" and still have edge detect in CCC it is not working. The game is than being rendered without AA at all so CCC settings don't take effect.
I hope I didn't complicate too much but it's simple:
1.) game AA on, CCC AA to edge detect + checked application settings = OK AA
2.) game AA off, CCC AA to edge detect + uncheck application settings = NO AA AT ALL
See here is where I think ATI is cutting corners - why? Well let's say I'm not satisfied with ''just'' 4x AA that game offers me and I want at least 8x. OK so I trurn AA in game to OFF and go to CCC and select ''box'' and set it to 8x and uncheck ''application settings'' - and here is the problem the game will be rendered with no AA at all. And not only that - how do I achive 16x ''box'' AA when the maximum is only 8x :)
Also I have some weird artifacts in the Testdrive unlimited if I have adaptive anti-aliasing checked so when I turn it off all is ok. What is this adaptive anti-aliasing and how important it is to have it on?
Thx for all your help.
nekrosoft13
08-04-08, 03:15 PM
Also I have some weird artifacts in the Testdrive unlimited if I have adaptive anti-aliasing checked so when I turn it off all is ok. What is this adaptive anti-aliasing and how important it is to have it on?
Thx for all your help.
what kind of artifacts? missing textures? flashes? if you are inside the car, cars roof disapear? that kind of stuff?
adaptive anti-aliansing on ati card is same as transparency AA on nvidia if i'm not mistaken.
Xion X2
08-04-08, 04:03 PM
But here is where we don't understand each other - if I select 8x AA in game and AA setting in CCC is checked to "application settings" and set to Edge Detect all is ok, but if I set AA in game to OFF and uncheck "application settings" and still have edge detect in CCC it is not working.
It doesn't work because it's redundent. There is no reason to disable it in-game. The in-game MSAA is sufficient and of the same quality you would get from the CCC.
Like I said, if you want the best quality of AA in your games then you need to run the in-game AA if it is available and run the Edge-Detect filter with the driver set to "application setting." This will give you either 12x or 24x AA depending on which in-game AA setting you select (4x=12; 8x=24.)
See here is where I think ATI is cutting corners - why? Well let's say I'm not satisfied with ''just'' 4x AA that game offers me and I want at least 8x. OK so I trurn AA in game to OFF and go to CCC and select ''box'' and set it to 8x and uncheck ''application settings''
Why are they cutting corners? It's a redundent feature. You're misunderstanding how it works. If you want better quality AA then what's offered in game, then just set your CCC to "application settings" and make sure that the Edge Detect filter is selected. Even though your AA settings read "application settings" you will still receive the Edge-Detect AA in-game. For 4xAA in-game you will receive 12xAA, and for 8xAA in-game you will receive 24xAA.
You can't get much better quality than that on a single card. :)
And not only that - how do I achive 16x ''box'' AA when the maximum is only 8x :)
You can't. 16x is for Crossfire only.
Also I have some weird artifacts in the Testdrive unlimited if I have adaptive anti-aliasing checked so when I turn it off all is ok. What is this adaptive anti-aliasing and how important it is to have it on?
Thx for all your help.
Adaptive AA = transparency AA. It anti-aliases alpha textures like fences.
what kind of artifacts? missing textures? flashes? if you are inside the car, cars roof disapear? that kind of stuff?
adaptive anti-aliansing on ati card is same as transparency AA on nvidia if i'm not mistaken.
Yes almost everything you mentioned and also my GPS mini map dissapeared (only road lines are visible and no background - only blue color).
And Xion X2 - thanks for all your help.
Oh and plese tell me if this is normal for my system:
Intel Quad Q6600
4 Gb OCZ DDR 2
HD 4870
Gigabyte GA - X38 - DQ6
Vista 64 bit
1280 x 1024
Now I ran the in game benchmark in World in conflict and set everything to maximum possible position, enabled Direct x10, 4x AA, 16x AF and also used the CCC edge detection and the results are:
Avrage frame rate: 29
Minimum frame rate: 13
I think it's kind off low what do you think ?
Thx
Xion X2
08-04-08, 04:50 PM
That sounds low. You may want to disable the Edge Detect filter to see how much (if any) your framerate jumps. Perhaps there's a conflict there.
That sounds low. You may want to disable the Edge Detect filter to see how much (if any) your framerate jumps. Perhaps there's a conflict there.
Ok will try - how do I disable it? Do I choose another filter or set it to 2x?
Xion X2
08-04-08, 05:10 PM
Choose "Box" and make sure that "application settings" is checked.
Omg even worse:
avg: 29
min: 11
What is going on here. I did have the 8800 GTX installed before and didn't do a clean install of the system.
Do you think this might be it?
One more thing - I don't know if all radeons have four LEDs on back next to the power connector or just mine.
But when I power up my system only 3 light up - do you think that my PSU is to weak to draw enough power to it?
Xion X2
08-04-08, 07:04 PM
One more thing - I don't know if all radeons have four LEDs on back next to the power connector or just mine.
But when I power up my system only 3 light up - do you think that my PSU is to weak to draw enough power to it?
If you powered an 8800GTX just fine, then it's probably not the PSU.
Try running a driver cleaning program like driver sweeper or driver cleaner pro and clean off all Nvidia files (if you have an Nvidia board, make sure not to wipe out the chipset files). After that, uninstall-->reinstall the ATI driver and see if that helps.
So all 4 should light up?
I'm running this one too ok - that is no crashes but the frames are really low.
I have an Intel chipset (X38) and I did clean Nvidia drivers with drive sweeper.
EDIT: I just did a little test - I unpluged both of the 6 - pin power connectors for the PSU and left the card alone in the PCIx and also only 3 light up, so this is not PSU related right?
Oh and also as you can see I have an X38 chipset that means both of my PCIx are 16x, because I have the HD4870 in the second slot despite the fact that I only use one card. The reason I don't have it in the first PCIx is because my X-Fi Titanium is sitting just above in PCIx 1x and the damn GPU is getting just too damn hot to have cards so close together.
Do you think that I'm bottlenecking the GPU because it is installed in the second PCIx?
If that is so how - it is full 16x just like the first PCIx.
wow..didn't know about this aa/shader business...thanks for that xion..
those 800sp things..does it help = performance/better compared to box? i got mine always set to box/app control...
wow..didn't know about this aa/shader business...thanks for that xion..
those 800sp things..does it help = performance/better compared to box? i got mine always set to box/app control...
Hey K007 I see that you have exact same motherboard and GPU as me only you have more powerfull PSU.
So you can tell me - do all 4 LEDs flash when you reset or power up your PC?
Ok I'm going to have a freak out right now.
I just did a fres install of the system, Vista 64 bit + SP1, only moherboard, GPU (Catalyst 8.7), X-Fi drivers and World in conflict.
The results are the same as I have posted them before - even if i disable DX10, turn AA + AF to off in game there is only small increase in FPS.
Now can someone please help me because I'm desperate at this moment and very dissapointed of this HD 4870.
u know..i never seen these leds...where are they?
you should try swapping the pci-e slots just to give it a shot..i know my 7950gx2 disliked the first pci-e slot for some strange reason...
u know..i never seen these leds...where are they?
you should try swapping the pci-e slots just to give it a shot..i know my 7950gx2 disliked the first pci-e slot for some strange reason...
I did and the result was the same - only 3 light up.
They are located near the connectors where you plug in the 6 pin cables.
OK guys I really need your help now -Xion - help me ... pleaseeeee.
Ok what I want to do - I'm going to try this 3d mark vantage and as I have never benched through this application maybe you could point me what are the most harsh settings that I can throw to my GPU and get some score.
I really hate when people post some scores than to see they have no AA or AF enabled, etc and than they brag about it. The GPU is worth smething when you give it the most stressfull situation and still perform good.
Now this is my setup:
- Intel Quad Q6600 stock @ 2,4 GHz
- Gigabyte Hd 4870 stock - no fan hack and in second PCIx (16x), Catalyst 8.7
- OCZ DDR 2, 4 x 1 Gb at 400 Mhz,
- Motherboard Gigabyte GA - X38 - DQ6
- Creative X - Fi Titanium PCIx
- 19'' Samsung (1280x1024)
- LC Power 550W
- Hitachi Deskstar 160 Gb
- Vista 64 bit + SP1 (fresh install)
Now tell me what settings should I apply to 3D mark and bench the thing? (I really hope you have 3d mark Vantage)
Thank you
Xion X2
08-05-08, 10:23 AM
those 800sp things..does it help = performance/better compared to box? i got mine always set to box/app control...
It depends on the game. If you're running a game that's heavy in high-res textures that already use lots of VRAM, then performance with Edge-Detect would probably be better since it runs entirely on the shaders. Opposite of that, if a game is heavy on shaders then Box may work better since it runs on VRAM.
Ok so I just did the 3D mark Vantage test and didn't change anything in settings - left it on performance and scored 6825.
Is this good or is this bad?
EDIT: I found some test with a slower CPU and only 2Gb ram and on the performance setting they scored 8412 points.
wtf
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