Building Another HTPC

[six_storm]

As some of you may know, I built a HTPC earlier this year and it just wasn't the best time to build one (expectations were too high and I was pretty darn broke then lol). But now, I have a great job and some extra money to burn. :D I've been trying to find a good storage solution to back up important docs, movies, music, game patches, etc AND that has the possibility to expand later on down the road. Sounds like a good opportunity to build a new HTPC!

This time around, here is what I want to accomplish:

GOALS
1. Be able to backup all DVDs.
- Haven't really decided on what method I wanted to use. I think I'm wanting to just backup the movie itself, 5.1 audio track, no subtitles, no languages, no menus or special features. It would be really cool to have the main movie with close to DVD quality (visually) in a plus/minus 700MB AVI, MPEG or DIVX file.

2. Watch all backed up DVDs.
- Whether I decide on using Vista Media Center or XBMC, I want to be able to watch my backed up AVI, MPEG or DIVX files with ease. A simple point and click will do.

3. Music backup storage for my fiancee and myself.
- I've been a little paranoid that something may happen to my or my fiancee's music collection (iTunes) so I really want some place to back it up and have it secure.

4. Easy to use jukebox for all of our music.
- We probably won't use this much, but it's always nice to have. Something simple.

5. Easy to use center for our pictures.
- Same with the jukebox.

6. XBOX 360 Extender Access
- My 360 is setup in my office so I'll have access to all my media from there.

7. Blu-Ray Playback.
- Not sure on this one yet but with everything else setup, I can always buy a BR-ROM drive and just go with it.

Screw TV recording and all that. We have DirecTV now and with digital boxes, there's no way of really recording anything. Why even bother? With all my media on a seperate box, my main gaming rig will have many, many GBs of space freed up. ;)

So what components am I going with this time? Since I do have extra cash to spend on this project, I don't have a ton to throw at it. I'm actually going to buy parts over the next three months to build this just to keep on my financial toes. :D But I do need a few suggestions on some of the components:

EDIT - I will not be ordering from NewEgg since they will charge me sales tax.

- Case
Silverstone LC13B-E (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163117)

I didn't want to just get a regular tower case this time, I want to get something that goes with my entertainment center decor and looks good . . . not to mention having plenty of room to work and great airflow. This case matches perfectly with my living room furniture and looks pretty awesome. 4 HDD bays, 2 bays for DVD drives and room for everything else I need.

- PSU
Cooler Master 500-Watt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171018)

Should be enough power for what I want. I haven't really found any other good brand PSUs that are around $50-$70.

- CPU
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ 2.6GHz Brisbane AM2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103211)

Like I said before, I want something good, but I don't want to spend a ton of money. The lowest priced Intel C2D was around $130 and I can't do that. Wouldn't this AMD CPU do just fine for HD playback?

- RAM
Corsair XMS 2GB Kit (PC2 6400/DDR2 800) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590)

I've got 4 sticks of this in my main rig, works perfect. And with the rebate, it's pretty darn cheap. This may change due to the motherboard I'll be buying.

- Video Card
eVGA 8600GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085)

Should be good enough for what I need. Will keep my eye out on better deals too.

- Motherboard

Ok, so this is where I need help. With a HTPC case like I want, should I get mATX or ATX? I'd like to buy a Gigabyte board since they are pretty darn reliable. Any suggestions?

- Hard Drive
WD 500GB SATA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073)

Can't go wrong with WD. If I need more space, I'll just add another 500GB drive as they are reasonably priced now.

- Remote Control
Microsoft Media Center Remote Control (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880100851)

Reading the reviews, it looks like this works perfectly with Vista. Now the question is, does it work with XBMC?

I'm currently experimenting with different DVD ripping methods to see which one is the best on hard drive space and video quality. I want to have great looking movies ready to go, but I don't want my hard drive to be filled with just 6 movies. Any suggestions here as well?

Thanks in advance for your help guys.

[Sazar]

There is a new all-in-wonder card from AMD with HDMI out and they have excellent hard-ware decoders for high-def output to your tele.

http://www.diamondmm.com/AIWHD3650PM.php

[six_storm]

There is a new all-in-wonder card from AMD with HDMI out and they have excellent hard-ware decoders for high-def output to your tele.

http://www.diamondmm.com/AIWHD3650PM.php

Those look pretty cool. I still have my AIW650HD from my last HTPC so it will probably go in with this project.

One thing I didn't mention is that I'm open to using ATI cards as well as NVIDIA cards . . . so don't hate if I get ATI lol. My main thing is that I want something that will play HD (Blu-ray and HD files) very easily and that is not being pushed to the limit to do so, not to mention a good price.

[Toss3]

Or you could get a motherboard with an integrated gpu and get everything a bit cheaper. :) The amd 780G is really something when it comes to decoding blu-ray movies, and coupled with an energy efficient(maybe even passively cooled) processor and powersupply you get a pretty awesome HTPC. :)

You also get sound over hdmi, so I'd say your best bet would be to spend a little less on your HTPC and invest in a good receiver and sound system.

Here's a review of it:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3258&p=4

Here's a htpc I built pretty quickly(newegg.com):

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32516&stc=1&d=1218047386

And I know you could get it for less if you switched out some components like the hard drive and memory for something cheaper.

[six_storm]

Or you could get a motherboard with an integrated gpu and get everything a bit cheaper. :) The amd 780G is really something when it comes to decoding blu-ray movies, and coupled with an energy efficient(maybe even passively cooled) processor and powersupply you get a pretty awesome HTPC. :)

You also get sound over hdmi, so I'd say your best bet would be to spend a little less on your HTPC and invest in a good receiver and sound system.

Here's a review of it:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3258&p=4

Here's a htpc I built pretty quickly(newegg.com):

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32516&stc=1&d=1218047386

And I know you could get it for less if you switched out some components like the hard drive and memory for something cheaper.

Thanks for the input! I totally forgot about the 780G coming out so I'll definitely look into that. My only problem now is that my Westy only has 1 HDMI input so I would have to figure something out with that. As far as the RAM and the HDD, I would probably keep those the same since the RAM is cheap and I would like 500GB of storage right off the bat.

[six_storm]

This is what I priced on Zipzoomfly:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32517&stc=1&d=1218048591

Not too bad . . . I didn't realize that AMD has an "energy efficient" series of CPUs.

[Toss3]

Thanks for the input! I totally forgot about the 780G coming out so I'll definitely look into that. My only problem now is that my Westy only has 1 HDMI input so I would have to figure something out with that. As far as the RAM and the HDD, I would probably keep those the same since the RAM is cheap and I would like 500GB of storage right off the bat.

That's what the receiver would be for. :) I'd say put together the cheapest possible htpc that can playback a high definition movie and get yourself a decent receiver and a good 2.1 sound setup for now(I'd recommend the z5500s, but as your wife has a big music collection I can't as they are pretty much only good for movies and games(compared to a decent 2.1 setup)). You can always add speakers later for the full 7.1 enjoyment(although the 780G only supports stereo PCM so no bitstreamed hd audio :(). :)

[six_storm]

That's what the receiver would be for. :) I'd say put together the cheapest possible htpc that can playback a high definition movie and get yourself a decent receiver and a good 2.1 sound setup for now(I'd recommend the z5500s, but as your wife has a big music collection I can't as they are pretty much only good for movies and games(compared to a decent 2.1 setup)). You can always add speakers later for the full 7.1 enjoyment(although the 780G only supports stereo PCM so no bitstreamed hd audio :(). :)

I've already got a decent Sony DreamTheater system setup in 2.1 mode right now. To watch movies, I have to connect my laptop to the Westy and then RCA to the Sony receiver for audio. The sound is actually really good in stereo so I'm not really worried about 5.1 right this minute.

I've thought about buying a new receiver and using the same speakers but I may have to wait on that a little bit.

[Toss3]

This is what I priced on Zipzoomfly:

[/IMG]

Not too bad . . . I didn't realize that AMD has an "energy efficient" series of CPUs.

Looks nice, but you forgot the most important part of any htpc; the case! :)

And the ram you chose is also a bit too much for a htpc, I'd recommend going for something cheaper(you won't see any benefit from going with faster memory). The psu is also more powerful than what you actually need.

[Monolyth]

This is my opinion but:
An HTPCs function should be limited to presentation only. Typically HTPC users want a near-silent solution that does what they need (plays video/audio content). With that in mind most go with parts that require little to no active cooling. This means a single quiet drive (single-platter drives are often most wanted, see SE16 320GB WD drives). Relatively cool CPU/Mobo/Video card, and a near-silent PSU, etc.

Storage is almost always located elsewhere and is accessed via a network share. This gives you the ability to setup the storage however you wish to support your storage needs. It's also important to keep regular backups on any critical data (documents, etc.). It is also more efficient to have an automated backup system running on a file-server rather then on your presentation box. A file-storage system with a quality HBA/RAID card will better handle the backup operations and still allow access to files through the network. In addition high quality RAID cards support raid expansion so you can add more disks as your budget allows.

When it comes down to it, it all depends on what you wanna do.

7. Blu-Ray - There are solutions to create backup BR discs even with BD+ protection but there are no guarantees. I myself am building my File-Server for the express purpose of being the central source to play my BR Disc Backups over a network. To future-proof the HTPC I would recommend Vista 64-bit for straight BR Disc playability.

[six_storm]

Looks nice, but you forgot the most important part of any htpc; the case! :)

And the ram you chose is also a bit too much for a htpc, I'd recommend going for something cheaper(you won't see any benefit from going with faster memory). The psu is also more powerful than what you actually need.

Look at my OP, I put a case in there! :D

Mono, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'd love to have a file server and a separate HTPC one day, but I'll have to combine the two for right now. What I thought about doing was taking my 74GB Raptor drive to use for the HTPC Vista installation, and then using the 500GB HDD just for music, movies, etc so when I do have a file server ready, I can just plug and play. :cool:

[nekrosoft13]

There is a new all-in-wonder card from AMD with HDMI out and they have excellent hard-ware decoders for high-def output to your tele.

http://www.diamondmm.com/AIWHD3650PM.php

wow, that is one interesting product

http://www.diamondmm.com/images/materials/new/AIWPREM_product_image.jpg

[Monolyth]

Mono, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'd love to have a file server and a separate HTPC one day, but I'll have to combine the two for right now. What I thought about doing was taking my 74GB Raptor drive to use for the HTPC Vista installation, and then using the 500GB HDD just for music, movies, etc so when I do have a file server ready, I can just plug and play. :cool:

Agreed, I would highly recommend splitting your OS/App & storage drive(s). On my main system I try to keep the drive duties as separate as possible (1xOS, 1xGames, 1xStorage, 1xBackup). Also again if you are going to store important documents on there be sure to have some method of backing those documents up. If you do plan to setup a file-server later on I would suggest getting all new drives especially if plan to run some level of RAID.

If possible I would also recommend switching out that 500GB for a WD SE16 640GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218). It has much higher density platters (320 vs. 250 per platter) then the 500GB which means faster access times & greater performance. For $10 dollars more you'll get close to Raptor-level performance out of your storage.

If you aren't as worried about noise (from the hard-drive at least). Be sure to disable or turn up AAM (254) using HD Tune Pro or a hard-drive utility app, this will improve your access times by a few ms in most cases.


If you eventually do look at going for a centralized file-storage system there's a few things you want to keep in mind that can be real gotchas if you don't properly plan for them:
- RAID controller performance & fault-tolerance (hardware vs. software raid), expansion support, etc.
- 2TB Volume Limitations on legacy hardware/software.
- Network design to support file-storage/access.

It has literally taken me a good month of solid research to finally get my File-Server specced the way I want it, now I'm just waiting for a few remaining components to hit the price-points I want (not to mention the new 1.5TB drives from Seagate) before I put it all together.

[six_storm]

How is everyone else backing their DVDs up? What format are you guys using? What codecs?

I played around with DVDShrink + Nero Recode 2 during my downtime yesterday and I tried ripping a SD DVD episode of Scrubs and then the full version of "The Last Kiss" (16:9, DVD) using two different Video Quality settings. In DVDShrink, I ripped the main movie with no compression into VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS. From there, I imported it into Nero Recode 2 and set the "burn" into Nero Digital High Definition.

With the TV show, I tried two burns with an uncompressed rip:

6Mbps Video Quality - 1.09GB MP4 - DVD Quality (A little more crisp)
3.5Mbps Video Quality - 638MB MP4 - Close to DVD Quality (A little more fuzzy)

I'd really like to have DVD quality movie backups but I don't want to waste HDD space. What is the best way to get DVD quality backups, but not take up 4GB for a single movie?

[nekrosoft13]

codec wise use H264 with AC3.

few amazing programs to check out
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipBot264 <--- mostly for HD, but can take VOB files as well
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/StaxRip

MKV container usually takes up less space when MP4

[six_storm]

So I quoted my equipment again and here's what I got:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32537&stc=1&d=1218129911

Now this is without a Blu-ray drive and the case, which ZZF doesn't sell the case I want. So I'm guessing I can spend about $550 and get everything I want. Not bad though! Since I'll be buying this project piece by piece, I'll be buying the case first and then a few parts here and there until I get the whole thing.

Anybody else besides Nekro got any suggestions on the DVD ripping?

nekro - Do you mind explaining your DVD ripping process? Just curious to see how your process goes.

[mullet]

Just a idea.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32538&stc=1&d=1218133670

OR

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32539&stc=1&d=1218133962

[six_storm]

Just a idea.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32538&stc=1&d=1218133670

OR

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32539&stc=1&d=1218133962

Hmmm. Not bad. I didn't realize the LG hybrid drive was so cheap nowadays . . . I guess I could rack up on some HD-DVDs lol.

One thing that I've had a problem with it the case. I really really like the Silverstone case I picked out but Newegg is the only website that sells it! FrozenCPU has it but they are sold out so I may keep an eye on that. I'd like a HTPC-style case instead of a tower case, but I also thought about going SFF if that falls through. What do you guys think?

[mullet]

I agree dude but I was going for low cost on the case.

[six_storm]

I agree dude but I was going for low cost on the case.

I may go for a cheap case right now and wait to buy a better one later. The Silverstone case I picked out is just awesome, everything just looks perfect on it. But for right now, I may just have to go with something basic. I'll keep looking for a case and then start buying some parts.

So I dabbled with DVD ripping some more and found something out. After using Nero Recode with different levels of video quality, I've noticed that the recoded movie always looked blurry . . . when using VLC. I got an idea to open up VMC and play them, just to see if VLC just had poor upscaling. Turns out that I forgot about VMC not playing MP4s lol. I changed it from MP4 to AVI and it finally played, although it wasn't the best quality. Finally, I played the DVD itself and noticed it didn't really look all that better. Maybe my PC just doesn't upscale DVDs that great? Can anybody shed some light on this?

[nekrosoft13]

what were you playing them on? HDTV?

[six_storm]

what were you playing them on? HDTV?

Right now, I'm playing them on my Samsung 22" LCD (1680x1050). Am I stretching the video too much on that res?

[six_storm]

I started playing around the with "MyMovies" software that blends with VMC and I can settle with that for backing up DVDs and playing them back. The video quality is 1:1 so there is not compression and no fuzziness ;) . My biggest issue/concern right now is the hard drive space. I ripped "The Last Kiss" and "Batman Begins", just the movie and 5.1 audio via DVDShrink (no compression) this morning. This wound up being 4GB for "The Last Kiss" and 6.3GB for "Batman Begins". So if the average movie is 5GB for JUST the main movie and 5.1 audio, then my configuration below will only allow me to store roughly 120 movies (give or take). I've got a 40GB folder for my torrent downloads (movies, music, programs, etc) and about 25-30GB of that is movies and music. Looks like the 640GB drive won't last long huh?

I also pieced together my HTPC without the case:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32586&stc=1&d=1218299338

As for the case, I'm still trying to find a good looking HTPC case without having to break the bank. I'll keep on looking . . .

[six_storm]

I think I have found a case that I like, but I don't necessarily like the price. Oh well, I knew I would be spending some bucks on the case itself.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-163-055-01.jpg

It is extremely clean looking, has 6 HDD bays and 2 optical drives; just what I wanted in a case. Also, it looks like the best way on buying this is buying the case from TigerDirect ($152) and everything else from ZZF ($339) which brings my total to $491! Not bad. This will give me plenty of room for massive storage and 1 DVD-ROM drive, 1 BR-ROM drive.

Now I just gotta talk with the future wifey to approve my purchases lol. More than likely I'll buy the case now, and the rest of the parts next month. Guess we'll see on that one . . . :D

[npras42]

I don't know if all HTPC cases are like this but both of my brothers have Silverstone cases that look like the one you've posted six_storm and they were a complete waste of money.

They do not offer any special features at all. They don't have any tool-free features (not even thumbscrews) for anything, they don't have a removable HDD tray, they had a stupid bar right in the middle running the length of the case that got in the way of CPU HSF installation, the fans were very noisy and it wasn't like they were made out of quality thick aluminium either.

I've never had a regular Silverstone case so I don't know if all of them are like that, but I've ruled myself out of ever spending a lot of cash on one of their HTPC offerings.