Inquirer: Nvidia G92s and G94 reportedly failing

[lightman]

looks like Charlie has done it again. his argument this time is a bit more elaborate and seems to boil down to "Nvidia is releasing new revisions of their chips, therefore this proves all the old chips were faulty or they wouldn't have to make a new revision"

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/28/nvidia-55nm-parts-bad

Charlie is the best case for pro-aborts worldwide.

[Sazar]

Thank you Mike. From personal experience at the work place, pretty much everything you wrote seems to correlate with internal findings.

Regarding the g92/94 "failures", I wonder if this is a result of people returning large volumes of cards when upgrading to the 2xx series?

[josiahsuarez]

slashdot has picked up the story now (just a link to it) but some of the comments are insightful

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/29/151227
A wolf! A wolf! (Score:4, Informative)
by ozbird (127571) on Friday August 29, @02:35PM (#24798507)
Charlie at The Inquirer has no credibility when it comes to nVidia.

From TFA, nVidia is changing from high lead to eutectic (tin) solder - for RoHS compliance - and has issues a PCN to that effect. Charlie has latched onto this as "proof" of his claim that all nVidia chips are faulty and overheat.

What Charlie doesn't explain is how switching from high-lead solder (5/95 Sn/Pb) to eutectic solder (63/37 Sn/Pb) - which has the lowest melting point of all tin-lead solders - is supposed to help if the chips are overheating. Nor does he explain how changing the solder material has any relationship to changing the underfill material on some mobile chips (other than they were both PCNs.) But hey, why let facts get in the way of a conspiracy theory/page hits?


edit: RoHS=Restriction of Hazardous Substances. that sounds like an excuse though, chip package materials are exempt from lead restrictions

also this:

http://www.techpowerup.com/69966/NVIDIA_Updates_Chip_Package_Materials_55nm_GPUs_su bject_to_Changes_too.html
NVIDIA Updates Chip Package Materials, 55nm GPUs subject to Changes too
A product change notification (PCN) document by NVIDIA The Inquirer claims to have access to, indicates changes to the bump materials of several NVIDIA graphics processors (GPUs). Affected by this change are popular GPUs such as G92 and G92b (55nm). Changes include replacement of a High-Pb solder (95% Pb / 5% Sn) bump material with Eutectic Solder (63% Sn / 37% Pb). Bumps are those parts of the die that establish electrical contact with the leads/pins of the FC-BGA package. Failures of these bumps are irreparable leading to permanent damage. This follows several events that lead to NVIDIA owning up defects in certain mobile graphics and MCP parts.

Implications of this PCN are:

* Current G92 and G92b are weaker and could be subject to failures similar to those products already diagnosed with failing packages and official announcements issued.
* This could just be a precautionary measure by NVIDIA since these changes according to the PCN are aimed “to increase supply and enhance package robustness” according to the PCN. In other words, better safe than sorry.
* Sourcing bump-processing services from a single provider is more economical than several providers doing it, as was the case with the recent mobile GPU failure fiasco. Mobile GPUs aren't much different from regular ones per say.

A list of affected products, according to the PCN is provided. It carries the PCN number of PCN0346A. It has the "PCN Submit Date" of June 13, 2008, "Planned Implementation Date" of July 28, 2008, and a "Proposed First Ship Date for change" of August 17, 2008 which makes it likely that none of the products available in the market as of now use this "robust" silicon packaging material. The G92 and G92b processors go into making popular graphics cards such as GeForce 8800 GT, 8800 GTS 512M, 9800 GT, 9800 GTX, 9800 GTX+, etc.

[ViN86]

slashdot has picked up the story now (just a link to it) but some of the comments are insightful

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/29/151227


edit: RoHS=Restriction of Hazardous Substances. that sounds like an excuse though, chip package materials are exempt from lead restrictions
excuse for what? how does a lower melting point solder help with overheating? :retard:

why else would they use eutectic solder? :|

[Ninja Prime]

excuse for what? how does a lower melting point solder help with overheating? :retard:

why else would they use eutectic solder? :|

Its fairly well explained I thought. Melting point has nothing to do with it, the problem was fatigue cracking, i.e. heating and then cooling in some metals that dont stretch well causes them to crack from shrinkage on cooling.

[AngelGraves13]

So, what's the verdict? Is this all a bunch of bull?

I just got a 9800GTX+ BTW (55nm)

[CaptNKILL]

So, what's the verdict? Is this all a bunch of bull?

I just got a 9800GTX+ BTW (55nm)

As far as the users here, it seems like a bunch of bull...

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1492

56 have no problems
3 have problems

[josiahsuarez]

IMO this can be summed up as FUD from inquirer. obviously charlie has a problem with nvidia and is grasping at straws to say something bad about them. his logic "new revision=therefore all old chips are time bombs" is flimsy at best. even a tank can be improved to make it stronger, that doesn't mean the old tank was weak (not that silicon chips are tanks, but you get my point). bottom line is there are no reports of actual widespread failure of nvidia desktop parts. some of the mobile parts failed because they naturally get hotter and experience thermal cycles more frequently (small space, anemic cooling, on and off several times a day make a 'perfect storm'). the new PCNs are just a case of "better safe than sorry" from nvidia, which is actually a good thing.

[Villa]

Something just isn't right with all of this, nVidia has sued for much less in the past. Lets face it, if everything Charlie is saying is a lie, he is doing great harm to nVidia. Hell, even the Wall Street Journal has quoted him numerous times.

nVidia is hiding something, something that would be revealed if they filed suit, the question is what.

[noko]

To me it just look like a design choice which just increased the normal failure rate, will it effect most users, probably not. A higher number of users, a little. Nvidia seems to be taking responsibility and correcting any weakness of the design and working with the OEM's to correct parts that do or did fail. So in this case Nvidia is looking rather good.

[josiahsuarez]

charlies posted a massive two part diatribe on this issue

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/01/why-nvidia-chips-defective

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/01/nvidia-should-defective-chips

I still think he's making a mountain out of a molehill, mostly because I've never personally experienced these failures with all my nvidia GPUs. I'd like to see some actual data on failure rates beyond just "some laptop GPUs are failing"

[nekrosoft13]

charlies posted a massive two part diatribe on this issue

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/01/why-nvidia-chips-defective

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/01/nvidia-should-defective-chips

I still think he's making a mountain out of a molehill, mostly because I've never personally experienced these failures with all my nvidia GPUs. I'd like to see some actual data on failure rates beyond just "some laptop GPUs are failing"

what ever comes from inq and charlie is automatically void. he simply has anti-nvidia agenda.

[josiahsuarez]

Fudzilla has posted something about this now, relating to the notebook issues but they mention the packaging as the culprit.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9296&Itemid=1
Nvidia mobile issue is not as bad
Written by Fuad Abazovic
Monday, 08 September 2008 10:46


So far there are no recalls

We spent some time to figure out what is actually going on with Nvidia's notebook chip issue. We were told by multiple sources that the issue has been simply blown out of proportion and that the situation is definitely much better than most of the people believe.


We were told by industry sources that so far neither Dell or HP have recalled a single notebook using Nvidia GPUs. You might be aware that mostly notebooks with Geforce 7 and Geforce 8 mobile chips are affected, and so far there are no reports that Geforce 9 mobile series are having the same issue. The issue is related to a mobile chip packaging and obviously, someone used a wrong combination of materials that is leading to this issue.

Dell and HP have announced preventative software updates and extended warranty programs for affected models, but they and other OEMs haven't issued full widespread GPU recalls. Dell and HP are probably the most affected, simply as they are selling much more SKUs compared to anyone else. This should indicate that the mobile GPU problem is not a widespread epidemic.

We will keep our eyes open, but so far there has not been any big recalls of notebooks with Nvidia’s GPU and this is a significant detail that was not properly communicated with the market; but this is up to OEMs, as Nvidia has to keep its mouth shut due to the contracts it has with big OEMs.

We were also told that the issue affects a small number of notebooks and it occurs mostly in some notebooks where the GPU and the rest of the machine is pushed to its limits, and even then it doesn’t happen every time. There will be more about this issue as it really caught our attention.

Compared to Sony's recent recall of 440,000 VAIO notebooks, the Nvidia issue really doesn't seem to be a significant one, as it has not forced a single vendor to recall a single unit.

I'm more and more convinced that Charlie@INQ was just blowing smoke :thumbdwn: