4870x2 reviews analysis and X2 scaling. Success.

[cvearl]

I have scoured the reviews. A couple things I can tell you is this. Crossfire is certainly matured. ATI have done it. Of all the sites I have compiled my results from, 29 out of 33 tested games confirmed compatible to 4870X2.

About 90% of the titles tested.

Feel free to add games to either successful or failed list. I will add them.

My conclusion is an obvious one as well. That unless you are running 1680x1050 or higher, this card is overkill.

Sites surveyed

Anand
Techpowerup
Hardware Canucks
Driverheaven
Guru3D
Techreport
Overclockers Club
Firingsquad
Madshrimps
Toms
Computerbase.de adds Jehrico and Rainbow Six Vegas


4870x2 scaling versus single 4870 successfully illustrated

Age of Conan @ Anand
Oblivion @ Multiple Sites
QW:Enemy Territory @ Multiple Sites
Race Driver Grid @ Multiple Sites
UT3 @ Multiple Sites
Prey @ Multiple Sites
Devil May Cry @ Mutliple Sites
Crysis DX9 @ Multiple Sites
Crysis DX10 @ Multiple Sites
COD4 @ Multiple sites
WiC DX9 @ Hardware Canucks
WiC DX10 @ Multiple Sites
COJ @ Techpowerup
Company of Heroes @ Techpowerup
Farcry @ Techpowerup
FEAR @ Multiple Sites
Quake 4 @ Mutliple Sites
Splinter Cell 3 @ Techpowerup
STALKER @ Multiple Sites
Lost Planet @ Multiple Sites
HL2:EP2 @ Multiple Sites
Assasins Creed @ Driverheaven
Mass Effect @ Guru3D
Frontlines:Fuel of War @ Guru3D
GRAW2 @ Guru3D
Bioshock @ Multiple Sites
Test Drive Unlimited @ Toms
Silent Hunter 4 @ Rage3D demohwc user tested
Jerhico @ Computerbase.de
Rainbow Six Vegas @ Computerbase.de

28 successful via reviews.

*Does not include but can be assumed these Source games or FEAR engine games*

HL2
Counterstrike Source
Portal
The Ship
FEAR: Perseus Mandate

USER CONFIRMED

Added by DEMOWHC here at Rage. :D

RedOrchestra
Sins of a Solar Empire
ME2 Total War
entire Medal of Honor series
entire Call of Duty series
Legend:Hand of God
Eve

So at the very least 40 games and counting…

4870x2 limited or no scaling versus 4870

Supreme Commander @ Techpowerup
Crysis @ Guru3D (showed minimal scaling)
Trackmania Nations? Not compared to 4870 but beaten by GTX280 in test.
Flight Simulator X. Also fails to do better than 30fps on GTX280 and GX2. Weird. CPU Bound? Or capped?
Gothic III @ Computerbase.de
IL-2: 1946 and Silent Hunter4:Wolves of the Pacific @ SIMHQ (Although users claim it works with SH4 so I am not sure)

[slaWter]

Thanks for your work.
The big question is how fast ATI manages to implement Crossfire support for new games...

[cvearl]

Thanks for your work.
The big question is how fast ATI manages to implement Crossfire support for new games...

From that list...

Grid, Assasins Creed, Age of Conan, Devil May Cry 4, Mass Effect, and Frontlines:Fuel of War are all pretty fresh from the oven.

Guess they are keeping up pretty good I'd say.

C.

[Xion X2]

From that list...

Grid, Assasins Creed, Age of Conan, Devil May Cry 4, Mass Effect, and Frontlines:Fuel of War are all pretty fresh from the oven.

Guess they are keeping up pretty good I'd say.

C.

Ditto. Although I understand slawter's concern, Crossfire has been scaling well from the get-go with new titles as of late.

It really is awesome; I've loved it so far. Scaling is just incredible.. the way it should've been on dual-GPU setups all along.

[Vanzagar]

I'm not seeing great scaling for Crysis at the higher resolutions, to me it looks like the 260GTX SLI beats it in both performance and cost... all the other games we get 60+ fps so who cares...

[Xion X2]

I'm not seeing great scaling for Crysis at the higher resolutions, to me it looks like the 260GTX SLI beats it in both performance and cost... all the other games we get 60+ fps so who cares...

It sounds cliche, but a lot of these reviews haven't been testing with latest drivers, and they really do help performance. Many of them were testing with the 8.6s, and the 8.8 betas are giving much better performance on the X2.

Also, with AA enabled, the 4870X2 begins to pull away in Crysis.

With 16xAA in Crysis, the X2 averages 40fps and the 280GTX averages 15:
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/video/sapphire/hd4870x2_2GB/page7.asp

With 4xAA in Crysis, the X2 pulls away again.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/08/13/amd-ati-radeon-hd-4870-x2/6

[cvearl]

I'm not seeing great scaling for Crysis at the higher resolutions, to me it looks like the 260GTX SLI beats it in both performance and cost... all the other games we get 60+ fps so who cares...

ROFLMAO...

Crysis scales like utter @$%@!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

ok ok... I allmost wet myself there.

Go ahead and buy over $600 worth of GTX260 SLI and the PSU and mobo your going to need so YOU can play Crysis. Again.

Bringing up Crysis scaling on a GTX260 SLI versus a 4870x2 card is about as big a stretch as anyone can come up with. I mean really. We need a pair of GTX260's to FINALLY play it?

Puh-phreakin-leez.

C.

[Vanzagar]

ROFLMAO...

Crysis scales like utter @$%@!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

ok ok... I allmost wet myself there.

Go ahead and buy over $600 worth of GTX260 SLI and the PSU and mobo your going to need so YOU can play Crysis. Again.

Bringing up Crysis scaling on a GTX260 SLI versus a 4870x2 card is about as big a stretch as anyone can come up with. I mean really. We need a pair of GTX260's to FINALLY play it?

Puh-phreakin-leez.

C.

You're not listening, no you don't buy GTX260 SLI just to play Crysis, I feel like I need to say that again - you don't buy GTX260 SLI just to play Crysis... the GTX260 SLI costs less and gets better fps, and makes the game playable at a decent resolution and AA/AF. Yeah the 4870x2 pulls away at 16xAA and 16xQAA, but realisitically, I'm not going to go play at 16xAA and 16xQAA... that graph Xion X2 posted is also for a 280, 260sli does much better and again for less cost than the 4870x2...

Look at the benches below... so I can still play HL2, COD4 at 94 and 164 fps and pretty much every other game out there about 60fps (see cvearl, not just Crysis), but now if I want to play Crysis I get better fps for less $$ with GTX260 SLI... get it?:headexplode:

ps. I pointed to the wrong one for Oblivion (280), but those benches are for 2560x1600 and I don't own a 30" monitor, so at 1900x1200, I'm still way above 60fps with 260sli...

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8233/image18dr1.png

[cvearl]

You're not listening, no you don't buy GTX260 SLI just to play Crysis, I feel like I need to say that again - you don't buy GTX260 SLI just to play Crysis... the GTX260 SLI costs less and gets better fps, and makes the game playable at a decent resolution and AA/AF. Yeah the 4870x2 pulls away at 16xAA and 16xQAA, but realisitically, I'm not going to go play at 16xAA and 16xQAA... that graph Xion X2 posted is also for a 280, 260sli does much better and again for less cost than the 4870x2...

Look at the benches below... so I can still play HL2, COD4 at 94 and 164 fps and pretty much every other game out there about 60fps (see cvearl, not just Crysis), but now if I want to play Crysis I get better fps for less $$ with GTX260 SLI... get it?:headexplode:

ps. I pointed to the wrong one for Oblivion (280), but those benches are for 2560x1600 and I don't own a 30" monitor, so at 1900x1200, I'm still way above 60fps with 260sli...

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8233/image18dr1.png

So...

4870x2 (single slot card that can run on ANY motherboard) is 4 fps slower than a GTX260 (Dual card) SLI setup in "Crysis" Wow. Your right! What was ATI thinking! The 4870x2 is a complete waste of time.

Oh and they are the same price really. Aside from a few really rare deals, $269 seems to where the GTX260 is sitting. Until the 4870x2 (2 days old now) is on shelves in number we cannot compare price. I think that $549 will be aproximately the average at first but a few weeks ago the GTX260 was $299. It's sudden drop in $$$ was required I guess.

Look. We can agree to disagree. It does not change the fact that the 4870X2 is the fastest card on the planet for now. And still. I think it's silly to sit back and say that it is any less colossal as a single card that can run in ANY system because you can *edit* match it putting together a dual card setup requiring a special motherboard and larger PSU? Or can SLIGTX260 run on 650 watt? for around the same price. While at other times the X2 is in fact faster as noticed by the Oblivion and HL2:EP2 and probably a dozen other titles perhaps. But this is nitpicking. They are likely trading blows.

If you can't see the 4870X2 matching the GTX260SLI setup as a success given the nature of single slot+any motherboard? Your kind of blind. You can thank the X2 for the new pricing on the GTX260 BTW.

Really limp arguement.

C.

[Xion X2]

the GTX260 SLI costs less and gets better fps
I don't know where you're getting this. The reviews so far seem pretty split to me.

And why do you keep saying that GTX260 SLI is cheaper? Last time I checked a 260 ran in the range of 275-300$. 275x2 = 550--about the same price you can get an X2 for.

In fact, some 260s are even priced as high as 329$...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150310

[Vanzagar]

gtx260 oc edition $245...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127361

As for the power supply I'm not sure how much more the 4870x2 draws, but I can't see it being much better as it's really just 2 4870's in cf, also the microstuttering isn't even an advantage as there are reports of this on the 4870x2... some of us have an sli ready mobo and 1000w psu so there's no extra cost there...

I want to like the 4870x2, I actually was ready to buy it but now I think I will wait to see if they improve the drivers or wait for the gtx280 refresh... 260sli has higher fps on the most demanding game out there, runs every other game above 60fps at 1900x1200 w/aa/af and is cheaper...

I never said the 4870x2 was a bad card or waste of ATI's time, it's a damn good card, but If I had to choose right now I think I would go with the 260sli...

[Xion X2]

gtx260 oc edition $245...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127361

Uh, that's with a rebate pal. If you want to count rebates that may take you anywhere from 3-6 months to benefit on, then be my guest. I'd rather have that immediate savings up front. Without the rebate, it's 270--right in the ballpark I said it was. 2x270 = 540$--about the same price you can get an X2 for.

What did the 260 release at again? Oh, that's right. 500$.

I never said the 4870x2 was a bad card or waste of ATI's time, it's a damn good card, but If I had to choose right now I think I would go with the 260sli...

Then go with it. It seems as if you've already made up your mind.

[Heinz68]

@rhuala
Did you realy expect the HD 4870 x2 to have 'Mail in Rebates' on the second day on the market? Or deep cut prices?
Did you forget the SLI option requires more expensive mother board?
Do you look on the reviews very selectively and than say the 260 SLI is faster?
Now if you talk only about Crysis, the game is about 10 months on the market I wonder how many more times people are going to play the Crysis. The coming 'Crysis Warhead' will run on much cheaper set ups.

Some very loyal NVIDIA fans were buying the GTX 260 at $400 or GTX 280 at $650 when HD 4870 was priced at $300.

Now when ATI forced NVIDIA and the partners to reduce the prices drastictly the same people think the ATI HD 4870 x2 itroduction price of $549 is too high.

[cvearl]

I guess people can pick whatever they are comfortable with. Still does not change how cool the 4870X2 is.

C.

[Vanzagar]

@Heinz68,
did you even read the posts, I commented on mobo's already (many of us have sli ready mobos), and I tried to explain all the benchmarks, not selective ones *sigh*

As for the 4870x2 dropping in price, I'm sure it will as will all the cards but that's speculation...

As for rebates, I didn't realize that was off limits, selective pricing? choose the one that best suits your point of view, uh okay... personally I just go for the best overall price and don't worry about when I get the $ back as I don't live from pay check to pay check (not implying that u do)...

I also don't see what quoting the original 260gtx price has to do with anything, ya nvidia made a mistake, and ya both cards will continue to drop in price... maybe the 4870x2 will drop more, no one knows...

Anyways I think I'm done with this thread as I'm having to repeat myself and some people seem so in love with this card they don't seem to want to read all the posts...

And no Xion X2 I haven't made up my mind, like I said above I'll prob wait for gtx280 refresh (hopefully end of sept) or see if they fix drivers for this card, I'm not blinded by the 260sli, at least I don't think I am, but maybe some of you are blinded by the 4870x2... laughing at me or getting upset for suggesting what I think is a better option *shrugs shoulders*...

[magitek]

Any reviews out that directly compare the 4870x2 running in pcie1.0x16 vs pcie2.0x16? I'm running a p35 mobo and was wondering if it'd be a good idea to pick up one of these.

[Lfctony]

Biggest advantage of the 4870x2 is the onboard Crossfire. No need to change boards, no need to go Nforce or Intel and be stuck with it later... Just install it and it runs... Also, nothing compares to the stability of Intel chipsets. Nforce boards are very problematic in general, some people have had very bad luck with them, others get lucky. The fact that you need an Nforce board to use SLI is a very big disadvantage...

[Stoneyguy]

Any reviews out that directly compare the 4870x2 running in pcie1.0x16 vs pcie2.0x16? I'm running a p35 mobo and was wondering if it'd be a good idea to pick up one of these.

I doubt that the 4870X2 will saturate a PCIe 1.0 slot. Even if it did, you would only see the bottleneck in extreme cases of running games at high res with all the AA options maxed.

[magitek]

I doubt that the 4870X2 will saturate a PCIe 1.0 slot. Even if it did, you would only see the bottleneck in extreme cases of running games at high res with all the AA options maxed.

That's comforting to hear. I've recorded a few benchies on my existing 8800 Ultra using Oblivion, and once my newly-ordered 4870x2 arrives I'll compare FPS and see if the bump is as big as it's supposed to be.

[LordJuanlo]

4870x2 performs great (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/crysis-aa-performance-ati-hd4870x2-vs-nvidia-gtx-280-a-56778/) vs GTX 280 on Crysis DX10 Very High, specially with AA. The performance hit when moving from DX9 to DX10 in GTX280 is tremendous. On the 4870x2 is softer, it doubles the GeForce framerate at 1920x1200 with 4xAA in DX10

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/attachments/f22/2037d1218613164-crysis-aa-performance-ati-hd4870x2-vs-nvidia-gtx-280-clipboard02.png

[FlashFreeze]

IL-2: 1946 and Silent Hunter4:Wolves of the Pacific do not scale with 4870X2 according to SimHQ.

[slaWter]

From that list...

Grid, Assasins Creed, Age of Conan, Devil May Cry 4, Mass Effect, and Frontlines:Fuel of War are all pretty fresh from the oven.

Guess they are keeping up pretty good I'd say.

C.

Those games are available for at least a month so Crossfire support has to be there. I worry about "release day support". When I buy a new game, I want to play it right away with great performance and zero driver bugs. nV always released drivers for important games, even for important demos or beta, just to ensure proper support. I'm not sure if ATI can go the same pace...

[cvearl]

IL-2: 1946 and Silent Hunter4:Wolves of the Pacific do not scale with 4870X2 according to SimHQ.

Which is strange because Demowhc at rage demostrated SH4 scaling with CF. Claims it has for him since 2900XT CF.

I mean it is always possible they tested incorrectly? Or he did? Who knows.

It's looking good though. CF and ATI's team have come a long way in the CF on a stick routine. It's looking like 90% scale so it's looking to be quite competative with GX2 implementation to me.

I will update above those 2 games.

C.

[cvearl]

Those games are available for at least a month so Crossfire support has to be there. I worry about "release day support". When I buy a new game, I want to play it right away with great performance and zero driver bugs. nV always released drivers for important games, even for important demos or beta, just to ensure proper support. I'm not sure if ATI can go the same pace...

And this is what it comes down to. :D

Best thing in the world for ATI right now would be to send out multiple 4870, 4850, 4870X2 rigs to all of the major dev houses for free with a big 1-800 number on the side of the case with a direct line to the render engineers at ATI. :)

This is crucial. I guess we shall see. From discussions amoungst CF supporters, support continues to improve.

C.

[cvearl]

The HD 4870X2 is certainly a force to be reckoned with. I have a GTX 260 myself that I absolutely love, its been my favorite card thus far but I am very happy to see ATI back in the game.

A couple of years ago I would have jumped all over the 4870X2 but with kick butt cards now in the 250-300$$$ range I just cant justify it for myself, however I am one of those that are happy with just 4XAA 16XAF at 1680X1050 so my GTX 260 fits the bill perfectly for me.

Playing Mass Effect maxed out with 4XAA and 16XAF at 60+fps is amazing! Heck my old overclocked 9800GTX didnt even run Mass Effect as good as with card with NO AA turned on! The GTX 260 is nearly twice as fast for me in some situations of ME with 4XAA, I think thats awesome!


Jericho is another one, 4XAA would put my 9800GTX at 35 or so FPS, with my 260 its at 60fps. :-)

I am with you 110% brother. I am a 1680x1050 4xAA kinda guy myself. I am playing ME with the exact same results on my 4870.

While the 4870 and GTX260 are being eclipsed by these crazy GTX280 pricedrops and the arrival of a colossal 4870X2 @ ~$500, the 260 and 4870 at under $300 are the best damn games in town IMO. They both herald the return of the 60fps gaming experience to the masses!

Grid, Mass Effect and HL2:EP2 are dizzyingly smooth with vSync on and so gorgeous maxed out at 1680x1050 with 4xAA. Been a long time since it was this good in this price range. Sex for the eyes for sure.

I would not be looking to go up yet unless I had a 1920x1200 monitor. I also do not spend more than $350 on cards anyway. :) Everyone is different that way.

C.