Is my 4870x2 working properly?

[magitek]

I just installed a brand new Sapphire 4870x2, replacing my 8800 Ultra. It's all set up, and I'm using the 8.8 beta drivers, but I've got a couple of concerns:

1. My performance in Oblivion has increased approximately 2x over the 8800u when using 16xAA, but benchmarks I've seen make me think it's underperforming here. I'm running a q6600@3.0ghz, so I doubt it's being bottlenecked. At 16xAA, my min/max FPS (using test saves) went from 18/33 with the 8800 to 36-69 with the 4870x2. I'm not concerned with the overall FPS value, as that depends on other variables, but rather the amount of increase over the 8800.

2. As a possible cause of performance issues, the CCC lists only one of the two cores as being active, with the other disabled. This may be due to the driver automatically disabling one in 2d mode to save power, but I don't know, so I'm asking.

3. Many reviews show the x2's performance with 24xAA. That's more than I'd probably ever want to use at 1920x1200, but I noticed that the CCC does not give me the option of going that high (only goes to 16x). Is this how it's supposed to work?

Here's my other relevant system specs, in case I'm bottlenecking somewhere:

Asus P5K-Deluxe Mobo
q6600 @ 3.0ghz
2x1gb Super Talent DDR2 memory, 800mhz
WinXP

I should note that this mobo has only a PCIe-1.0x16 slot, though I'm not sure it would be bottlenecking all that much. Thanks for any replies.

[Xion X2]

I just installed a brand new Sapphire 4870x2, replacing my 8800 Ultra. It's all set up, and I'm using the 8.8 beta drivers, but I've got a couple of concerns:

1. My performance in Oblivion has increased approximately 2x over the 8800u when using 16xAA, but benchmarks I've seen make me think it's underperforming here. I'm running a q6600@3.0ghz, so I doubt it's being bottlenecked. At 16xAA, my min/max FPS (using test saves) went from 18/33 with the 8800 to 36-69 with the 4870x2. I'm not concerned with the overall FPS value, as that depends on other variables, but rather the amount of increase over the 8800.

2. As a possible cause of performance issues, the CCC lists only one of the two cores as being active, with the other disabled. This may be due to the driver automatically disabling one in 2d mode to save power, but I don't know, so I'm asking.

3. Many reviews show the x2's performance with 24xAA. That's more than I'd probably ever want to use at 1920x1200, but I noticed that the CCC does not give me the option of going that high (only goes to 16x). Is this how it's supposed to work?

Here's my other relevant system specs, in case I'm bottlenecking somewhere:

Asus P5K-Deluxe Mobo
q6600 @ 3.0ghz
2x1gb Super Talent DDR2 memory, 800mhz
WinXP

I should note that this mobo has only a PCIe-1.0x16 slot, though I'm not sure it would be bottlenecking all that much. Thanks for any replies.

36fps sounds a little low for Oblivion, but it might not be too far off the mark for your minimum. Is your motherboard PCI-E 2.0? If not, then the card might be a little bandwidth hungry. But I'm not for certain about this.. just trying to think of what the problem may be. Keep working on it.. the 4870 line is a hell of a performer and scales really, really well in Crossfire. If you want to use a comparison you can use my benches with Oblivion at the link below. I'm afraid I didn't bench w/ 16xAA, though:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=116585


The 24xAA is a custom-filter AA method. ATI has three of these: Narrow Tent, Wide Tent and Edge Detect. These are shader-based AA methods that use very little (if any) VRAM. They work off the MSAA sample settings (2x, 4x, 8x) in the driver. You can only enable 24xAA with the edge-detect filter when setting MSAA to 8x. 4x MSAA will set it to 12xAA. I would recommend the 24xAA for Oblivion as it performs really well.

Also, when running in-game AA instead of through the driver (always do this for games that give you in-game AA options) you can set the edge-detect filter in the driver to add additional AA to the game. Even if the driver is checked to "application setting," if the driver is set to "edge detect" then you will get whatever sample of edge detect is enabled (12x or 24x.)

Congrats on your new card. I have 2 sitting here beside me about to replace my 4870s. :D

[magitek]

36fps sounds a little low for Oblivion, but it might not be too far off the mark for your minimum. Is your motherboard PCI-E 2.0? If not, then the card might be a little bandwidth hungry. But I'm not for certain about this.. just trying to think of what the problem may be. Keep working on it.. the 4870 line is a hell of a performer and scales really, really well in Crossfire. If you want to use a comparison you can use my benches with Oblivion at the link below. I'm afraid I didn't bench w/ 16xAA, though:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=116585


The 24xAA is a custom-filter AA method. ATI has three of these: Narrow Tent, Wide Tent and Edge Detect. These are shader-based AA methods that use very little (if any) VRAM. They work off the MSAA sample settings (2x, 4x, 8x) in the driver. You can only enable 24xAA with the edge-detect filter when setting MSAA to 8x. 4x MSAA will set it to 12xAA. I would recommend the 24xAA for Oblivion as it performs really well.

Also, when running in-game AA instead of through the driver (always do this for games that give you in-game AA options) you can set the edge-detect filter in the driver to add additional AA to the game. Even if the driver is checked to "application setting," if the driver is set to "edge detect" then you will get whatever sample of edge detect is enabled (12x or 24x.)

Congrats on your new card. I have 2 sitting here beside me about to replace my 4870s. :D

Thanks for the info, that's quite helpful. No, my mobo is pcie 1.0 only. I wasn't concerned with the overall FPS because I was using a special savegame that had me standing in front of some very high poly NPCs indoors. Looking at your own benchmarks, it looks like my performance is about on par if I take into consideration my slower hardware. I'll run through some of the same areas you did and see what I get.

As for the AA, I do take a frame hit between AA off and 16xAA (box), but the FPS is the same whether it's 16xbox or 32xwide.

[Xion X2]

Thanks for the info, that's quite helpful. No, my mobo is pcie 1.0 only. I wasn't concerned with the overall FPS because I was using a special savegame that had me standing in front of some very high poly NPCs indoors. Looking at your own benchmarks, it looks like my performance is about on par if I take into consideration my slower hardware. I'll run through some of the same areas you did and see what I get.

As for the AA, I do take a frame hit between AA off and 16xAA (box), but the FPS is the same whether it's 16xbox or 32xwide.

If you were standing in front of several NPCs, then you were probably CPU-limited at the time. I've noticed that performance really hasn't changed all that much in the towns from GPU to GPU. If you OC your CPU a little more then your framerate should be higher in the towns.

One thing I need to correct-- when running edge-detect filter through the driver when it's set to "application setting" while using in-game AA, 4x in-game AA will give you 12x edge detect and 8xAA in-game will give you 24x edge detect. So in effect the in-game AA would enable edge-detect on the same scaling that the driver would. Just make sure that if you're using the in-game AA option (which you should be if it offers it) that you check "application settings" in the Catalyst panel. It will let you check this option as well as enable the edge-detect filter.

[magitek]

If you were standing in front of several NPCs, then you were probably CPU-limited at the time. I've noticed that performance really hasn't changed all that much in the towns from GPU to GPU. If you OC your CPU a little more then your framerate should be higher in the towns.

One thing I need to correct-- when running edge-detect filter through the driver when it's set to "application setting" while using in-game AA, 4x in-game AA will give you 12x edge detect and 8xAA in-game will give you 24x edge detect. So in effect the in-game AA would enable edge-detect on the same scaling that the driver would. Just make sure that if you're using the in-game AA option (which you should be if it offers it) that you check "application settings" in the Catalyst panel. It will let you check this option as well as enable the edge-detect filter.

I didn't think about that, thanks. I run Oblivion with HDR, so I have to force AA anyway. It could very well be my CPU that's bottlenecking me here, but I did use the "tai" console command to turn off AI. I'll try overclocking a little more and see what happens.

[Xion X2]

It won't make a huge difference, but you could see as much as a 10fps increase. With my Wolfdale at 4.2GHz I got about 45 fps in the towns w/ NPCs walking around.

[SH64]

If you were standing in front of several NPCs, then you were probably CPU-limited at the time. I've noticed that performance really hasn't changed all that much in the towns from GPU to GPU. If you OC your CPU a little more then your framerate should be higher in the towns.

Yep Oblivion is still CPU bound in places with lots of NPCs (AI).

[LordJuanlo]

2. As a possible cause of performance issues, the CCC lists only one of the two cores as being active, with the other disabled. This may be due to the driver automatically disabling one in 2d mode to save power, but I don't know, so I'm asking.

There is something wrong with your setup mate, my motherboard also has a PCEx16 1.0 slot, and both cores appear active at CCC (one is 15ºC cooler because it's not used until you start a 3D app), also GPU-Z detects both cores

[magitek]

There is something wrong with your setup mate, my motherboard also has a PCEx16 1.0 slot, and both cores appear active at CCC (one is 15ºC cooler because it's not used until you start a 3D app), also GPU-Z detects both cores

GPUZ detects both cores on mine as well, and indicates that the second one is powered down (507mhz core vs 750). Are we looking at the same info in CCC? I'm looking at the Information Center -> Graphics Hardware screen.

Also, and this might be an issue, the CCC tray icon indicates I have four 4870x2s when I right click on it. Everest indicates this as well, under the Windows Video section. Sounds like a driver problem to me, so I guess I'll remove everything ATI and reinstall the 8.8 betas (previously I had installed the 8.6 driver from the cd, then the 8.8 on top of it).

Edit: the Windows Device Manager only reports 2 display devices, which I guess is normal. I'll reinstall the drivers anyway just to be sure.

Edit 2: Well, that was useless. I uninstalled everything, used DC to get rid of the remains, and started fresh with the 8.8 betas. Now I don't get a CCC tray icon (though CCC.exe is running). My framerates have not changed at all. I used the sensor tab in GPUZ to track the activity of the second GPU. When I had Oblivion maximized, GPU load went up to max, but the temperature didn't move at all. I don't know if that means anything.

Edit 3: Everything's back to normal, though I'm going to hold off on the 8.8 drivers until they're official. I noticed that GPU-Z says "Enabled (2 GPUs) Sideport Off" under the Crossfire heading. Is Sideport supposed to be off?

[Xion X2]

Edit 2: Well, that was useless. I uninstalled everything, used DC to get rid of the remains, and started fresh with the 8.8 betas. Now I don't get a CCC tray icon (though CCC.exe is running).

Don't use DC on ATI's driver software. The two don't mix well, and you'll often get install errors or a missing tray icon like you describe here.

There's really no need to use these 3rd-party driver utilities that people use. Trust the engineers/programmers who designed the graphics card & software to be able to figure out how to uninstall their own files--not some freelance 3rd party programmer.

And sideport is disabled on all cards right now. It causes the card to draw extra power, and ATI has said that it's currently overkill for any games out there because the card is not bandwidth-limited at the moment.

[JaxMacFL]

2. As a possible cause of performance issues, the CCC lists only one of the two cores as being active, with the other disabled. This may be due to the driver automatically disabling one in 2d mode to save power, but I don't know, so I'm asking.



Thats correct. There is only one gpu active with 2d. Both should gpus' should show 507/500 as current clock settings in ccc at ati od.

[magitek]

Thanks guys, I guess everything's working as it should for now.

[DRen72]

Xion X2, you realize your signature "logo" reads DDR2 instead of DDR3 right?

[Lfctony]

Xion X2, you realize your signature "logo" reads DDR2 instead of DDR3 right?

The P5E(plain) Deluxe is DDR-2...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131317