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digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 07:34 PM
Extreme Tech (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp) is the first to break the story officially, and I'm only on the second page....but the first page was enough to peak me interest:

Our own interpretation of these test results is that nVidia is improperly cutting corners to attempt to inflate its 3DMark2003 scores for the new GeForceFX 5900 Ultra. The company, on the other hand, believes that the problems can be attributed to a driver bug. Let's explore exactly what we found, and you can draw your own conclusions.

What a fortunate "bug" for nVidia, eh? :rolleyes:

digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 07:53 PM
OH THANK YOU GODS FOR THIS KINDNESS YOU HAVE BESTOWED UPON ME MOST UNWORTHY SELF!!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!!


I was getting bloody sick of this whole 'be-a-good-sport-about-it' attitude I've been taking on FX....if those hard coded cull planes are a coincidence I will eat my GF4!!!!

OMFG, is nVidia TOTALLY hosed on this! This will even wash the stain of "The Quack Fiasco" off of ATi forever, or at least give every fanATIc out there a one-upmanship for all time to it. :D

Hope ya enjoyed your happy day nVidia, I have a feeling you're all gonna have a suck-ass Thursday morning at the office. ;)

MuFu
05-14-03, 08:00 PM
Now you see why I didn't want to start a thread all on my own about this!!!

I wasn't sure about it anyway - hard to confirm anything myself because I don't have the necessary hardware/software. :(

MuFu.

digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Now you see why I didn't want to start a thread all on my own about this!!!

I wasn't sure about it anyway - hard to confirm anything myself because I don't have the necessary hardware/software. :(

Yes, I do get it now. :D

From what you read over on Extreme Tech, is it possible that this is just an innocent bug? Or is it more like "Well, there is a theoretical possiblility it is a bug....but it tends to approach the astronomical coincidence category pretty heavily"?!?

MuFu
05-14-03, 08:10 PM
No it's a conscious attempt to cheat in the benchmark. Absolutely no two-ways about it. Clever, but incredibly foolish.

What is worrying is that they can do it for any bench that uses fixed camera motion vectors - so timedemos etc can be "optimised" as well. UT2003 Botmatch/Flyby, anybody?!

MuFu.

MuFu
05-14-03, 08:18 PM
Plus, what really f*cks me off (and I apologise if I begin sound like Hellbinder now) is the way in which this insults the intelligence of reviewers. They put hours and hours of hard work into making such benchmarks available, being constantly reassured by nVidia that such optimisations do not exist.

MuFu.

digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
No it's a conscious attempt to cheat in the benchmark. Absolutely no two-ways about it. Clever, but incredibly foolish.

I can't believe they did it either, thanks for confirming what I got out of that article. :)

MuFu
05-14-03, 08:22 PM
Another thing... I can't believe they moaned so much about 3DMark 2003 being an invalid benchmark when it was released!

I rarely ever get worked up about anything computer-related (just not worth it, IMO), but this is insane and really makes me angry. The sheer hypocrisy of the whole thing STINKS.

*aaaaaaand relaaaax...." :D

MuFu.

Edit - sp.

digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Another thing... I can't believe they moaned so much about 3DMark 2003 being an invalid benchmark when it was released!

I rarely ever get worked up about anything computer-related (just not worth it, IMO), but this is insane and really makes me angry. The sheer hypocricy of the whole thing STINKS.

*aaaaaaand relaaaax...." :D

MuFu.

Oh...go ahead!

Sometimes it feels good to work yourself up into a really righteous mad-on and stomp about the boards ranting and raving a bit, take it from an old hand at it. ;)

I'm still just too shocked at their audacity to be properly outraged right now, I truly am. :eek:

digitalwanderer
05-14-03, 08:44 PM
I KNOW y'all are reading this since I can see the view counter sky-rocketing...I'm waiting for some reactions here besides me inane giggling.

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Gargr
05-14-03, 08:46 PM
Hey, were did all the nvidiots go? :confused:

Bopple
05-14-03, 08:50 PM
Well...many have been assuming nvidia using precalculated codes for 3DMark though some nv fans didn't admit.
It's no surprise to me. And i'm so sure nvidia having some convenient excuses for this.

Shame on you, nvidia, considering the new product is good enough and does not need this kind of bs this time at all.

I have seen so many people unable to quit cheating till they get caught in the end. It's something like addicts.
Now I see why he commented about some hallucinogenics. :cool:

gandalfthegrey
05-14-03, 08:50 PM
this is gandy checkin in dig this is the funniest ****e ive seen all year man this just goes to show nvidias ethics towards the industry man their so gonna get screwed by some companies because of this

creedamd
05-14-03, 08:54 PM
O .... M.....G..... pie anyone?

Gargr
05-14-03, 08:57 PM
Is that with the WHQL drivers?

Baaaad nvidia :spank:

D0T-C0M
05-14-03, 08:59 PM
I'll always remember my first post here.

:D :D

mavis
05-14-03, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Gargr
Hey, were did all the nvidiots go? :confused:

LOL!!!!!!!! :D :lol: :D

This is like the funniest thing I've seen this week. Nvidia busted for cheating, and not a single fanboy can say a word about it.

I think the best part about this is how Nvidia spent so much time and energy trying to discredit 3DMark2k3, only to cheat in it to inflate their scores. Seems a bit ironic to me ... lol.

saturnotaku
05-14-03, 09:04 PM
Ooooh weeeee, looks like NV got caught with their collective pants down and their hands on their :eek:

These hardware sites often times are like a mother and her child. No matter what the child (NVIDIA) may do, no matter how many times he/she tries to cover it up, the mother always knows.

Shame on you, NVIDIA :bash:

EDIT:

Have to respond to this:

I think the best part about this is how Nvidia spent so much time and energy trying to discredit 3DMark2k3, only to cheat in it to inflate their scores

I predict...the PR machine is going to spin this into something like, "This only goes to show how easy it is to take this benchmark and do something to inflate your score; therefore this is still an invalid benchmark."

You heard it here first, folks. :angel2:

Kombatant
05-14-03, 09:05 PM
I can smell it in the air.. this is gonna be big...

mavis
05-14-03, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Kombatant
I can smell it in the air.. this is gonna be big...

Yeah, big, and funny as hell. I'm gonna go grab my popcorn, BRB ... ;)

RoJo
05-14-03, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by mavis
Yeah, big, and funny as hell. I'm gonna go grab my popcorn, BRB ... ;)


LOL :lol2:

mavis
05-14-03, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
I predict...the PR machine is going to spin this into something like, "This only goes to show how easy it is to take this benchmark and do something to inflate your score; therefore this is still an invalid benchmark."

You heard it here first, folks. :angel2:

Yeah, I suspect you may be right. On the other hand, ATi or Futuremark can simply counter that with: 'fortunately, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when an unethical company has been cheating...'

:D

ChrisW
05-14-03, 09:23 PM
Just goes to show you that the drivers don't have to search for a game name (like Quake3.exe) to add special optimizations for it.

The Baron
05-14-03, 09:24 PM
Why are we surprised?

I place no faith in any benchmark but actual gameplay anymore.

If you take 6 video cards and have the same person play the same level for 10 minutes on each video card, you will get good (and replicable) results.

Synthetic benchmarks are dead. Congratumalations. They've been dead ever since companies started optimizing for BENCHMARKS instead of actual GAMES.

Wheee.

volt
05-14-03, 09:25 PM
ahh pathetic, let me make it public...