Is NVIDIA cheating to sell graphic cards?

[creedamd]

What do you think?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086860,00.asp

[jAkUp]

im still a little unsure... because these latest drivers have given improvements in games too... (but more in benchies such as 3dmark03)

[jAkUp]

Originally posted by creedamd
ot: thanks for the HL2 Movie in your sig..
ot: no problem... i just thought it a ****ing amazing movie... so i just had to sport it in the sig:)

[Nv40]

i think ExtremeTEch is completly misleading people..
THose Horrible screenshots are not noticeable to the
GAmers ,only to the developers (not Nvidia ) that have
access to 3dmark2003 from others camera points of view..

Imo.. if the GAmer cant notice any decrease in IQ
then i see *no problem* for more performance.
without noticeable decrease in IQ.

i think Extremetech and the Guys behind this...
we know who they are...
ATi is simply Crying like ladies! because the Nv35 kicked the ass,
of R350.. in games!!! where it matters.. ;)

[Rogozhin]

Way to work it prerendered-man NV40

;)

source - moose i believe.

[John Reynolds]

Problem is, people have been noticing slight visual anomalies (pixel smearing). Look in this forum for a thread started by AnteP.

Nothing worse than fanboys who always defend their favored IHV, no matter what.

[Rogozhin]

So you're saying that extremetech was paid off by ati to expose this "kinda different" notion of rendering outside of camera track view.

And you have the balls to say "quak, quak".

rogo

[jAkUp]

doesnt whql check for this stuff??? because these same drivers have been whql'd:confused:

[Rogozhin]

ANd the balls to say this:

"finally! HardOcp dicovers AMerica... :
and dispelling the myth of the "always" superior IQ of ATI.

why it took so long for them to realize what everybody knows
since years?
ATI have been doing this (part time) filtering since the Radeon 8500..
it only have been improved abit recently but still nowhere close to Nvidia.
a technique that looks good in (STILL screnshots) ,but in real motion
if you care to notice you will see less IQ when you compare it with
Nvidia AF ,more noticeable when there is no flat surfaces."

Your conclusion, based on many different premises that you've proposed in other threads (above), is fallacious (princippo princippi) and hence will be looked upon as completely inane.

Infact

The few posts I've just read of yours are so inane that I can't believe that you are serious!

Rogo

[MuFu]

Originally posted by Nv40
i think ExtremeTEch is completly misleading people..
THose Horrible screenshots are not noticeable to the
GAmers ,only to the developers (not Nvidia ) that have
access to 3dmark2003 from others camera points of view..

Imo.. if the GAmer cant notice any decrease in IQ
then i see *no problem* for more performance.
without noticeable decrease in IQ.

i think Extremetech and the Guys behind this...
we know who they are...
ATi is simply Crying like ladies! because the Nv35 kicked the ass,
of R350.. in games!!! where it matters.. ;)

I don't think I've ever seen a more misguided post in my life. Read the article again.

MuFu.

[Nv40]

Originally posted by John Reynolds
Problem is, people have been noticing slight visual anomalies (pixel smearing). Look in this forum for a thread started by AnteP.

Nothing worse than fanboys who always defend their favored IHV, no matter what.


yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then this clearly means is not
in his drivers the Issue.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Nv40
i think ExtremeTEch is completly misleading people..
THose Horrible screenshots are not noticeable to the
GAmers ,only to the developers (not Nvidia ) that have
access to 3dmark2003 from others camera points of view..

Imo.. if the GAmer cant notice any decrease in IQ
then i see *no problem* for more performance.
without noticeable decrease in IQ.

i think Extremetech and the Guys behind this...
we know who they are...
ATi is simply Crying like ladies! because the Nv35 kicked the ass,
of R350.. in games!!! where it matters.. ;)

Well, we'll count that as one cerebellum officially blown by the revelation. ;)

[creedamd]

Originally posted by Nv40
yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then its clearly means is not the
Drivers their Issue.

wtf?

[John Reynolds]

A clear example of the human mind's ability to steep itself in denial regardless of logical, sound reasoning and evidence.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Nv40
yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then its clearly means is not the
Drivers their Issue.

You're physically hurting me sides right now dude, literally!!! :lol: :lol:

Just to be nice I'll try once to explain it without being nasty:

Those "slight" errors are NOT errors, they are a deliberate hack on nVidia's behalf to NOT render some bits of the scene that wouldn't normally show up anyway.

You claim that's a "No harm, no foul!" since it isn't visibly noticable in games...but that's not the point.

This is a BENCHMARK, and furthermore it's the specific benchmark that nVidia shunned and called meaningless and said they would never optimize drivers for...and that article is VERY CLEAR EVIDENCE that they have indeed been playing very fast and loose with their driver optimizations to cheat their way to a better score.

Not that big of a deal? Well, the two big stories yesterday that I recall reading were the FX slaughtering the 9800 in Doom3 and 3dm2k3. D3 I already know the reasons behind, and while it wasn't cheating it was more a business maneuver than a fair shoot-out in card performance...but THIS one is flat-out cheating.

They're busted, and your arguments are ludicrously funny to me. :lol:

[creedamd]

it was about "graphic cards" notice the title. That's ok, it will be exposed on every hardware site by tomorrow. Nvidia sure did screw the pooch this time, I guess they will can the nv35 next. Lmao.

[volt]

It points to a driver article, hence your topic is based on this :)

[creedamd]

Originally posted by volt
It points to a driver article, hence your topic is based on this :)

The purpose of the poll was to see if people thought that they were cheating to sell graphic cards. Not cheating to sell drivers.

[volt]

Okay fine!

Be it your way :p

But if people will start discussing the drivers, I'm moving it back.

[CaptNKILL]

I dont have enough time to read that article right now, but as Ive said before:

IF I CANT *SEE* THE PROBLEM, I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF THEY ARE CHEATING OR NOT.

Speed is speed. Unless my picture looks like crap, I'll take speed over fairness any day.

[The Baron]

The better question is do synthetic benchmarks matter.

If you want to be really horribly anal about it, if the new 44.03s do not have any sort of IQ drop in GT4 REGARDLESS of what may happen if you freelook using the Developer Edition, it's not cheating. The benchmark runs, it ends normally, it's just faster than it would otherwise be. But at the same time, it is a fake optimization that has no place in the real world.

In my book, yes, it's cheating, because it's creating performance where performance isn't there. But at the same time, it finally proves without a doubt that as a test of game performance, synthetic benchmarks are dead. And I think it's article time. ;)

[MuFu]

Originally posted by CaptNKILL
I dont have enough time to read that article right now, but as Ive said before:

IF I CANT *SEE* THE PROBLEM, I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF THEY ARE CHEATING OR NOT.

Speed is speed. Unless my picture looks like crap, I'll take speed over fairness any day.

You really need to read the article. Your argument makes no sense.

MuFu.

[Behemoth]

i dont think its cheating, i think nvidia just wanna show how easy it is to mess up the 3DMark scores, which people over-use it to indicate its actual gaming ability, which shows nothing important for Doom3 fans, by a combination of robust driver/developer relationship/popular games special driver treat, i am confident my nv30 is gonna work great with Doom3 :p

[MuFu]

Originally posted by Behemoth
i dont think its cheating, i think nvidia just wanna show how easy it is to mess up the 3DMark scores, which people over-use it to indicate its actual gaming ability, which shows nothing important for Doom3 fans, by a combination of robust driver/developer relationship/popular games special driver treat, i am confident my nv30 is gonna work great with Doom3 :p

It's not just about 3dm - they can do this for ANY timedemo, so people can get a inflated view of performance in actual games.

It makes a reviewer's job hell. :mad:

MuFu.

[creedamd]

Originally posted by The Baron
The better question is do synthetic benchmarks matter.

If you want to be really horribly anal about it, if the new 44.03s do not have any sort of IQ drop in GT4 REGARDLESS of what may happen if you freelook using the Developer Edition, it's not cheating. The benchmark runs, it ends normally, it's just faster than it would otherwise be. But at the same time, it is a fake optimization that has no place in the real world.

In my book, yes, it's cheating, because it's creating performance where performance isn't there. But at the same time, it finally proves without a doubt that as a test of game performance, synthetic benchmarks are dead. And I think it's article time. ;)

If benchmarks are dead then why does EVERYONE in the hardware community use them to compare? If I buy a $500 dollar video card. I am not doing it to play my games fast. Hell all of the $200 cards play the games fast now. I want something I can say "I have the best card around" period. Benchmarks prove this.

Benchmarks are an easy tool to compare. Nvidia knows that 3dmark03 is reliable, or they wouldn't have let the reviewers even use it! Especially if they knew that they had a chance of losing.

Jacking me for $500 is one thing, but to jack me for the cash and then give something that's half ass.. screw that, I will wait.