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DansFace
08-26-08, 03:07 PM
Dunno I'm missing the days back when I played Everquest where I was scared as hell to die. Death on that game was difficult... you could lose all your items forever.

With wow I could really careless if I die. Just revive at the healer and everythings fine. At first this was great but after awhile it made me feel like there was no threat of danger.

I want a game like everquest but without that huge time sink..
Having trouble getting my idea down here. lol

Anyone understand what i'm getting at?

J-Mag
08-26-08, 03:29 PM
Dunno I'm missing the days back when I played Everquest where I was scared as hell to die. Death on that game was difficult... you could lose all your items forever.

Yeah, I recall some moments of massive adrenaline in that game, but didn't you feel horrible after you lost all your gear?

Mr.Schme
08-26-08, 03:37 PM
wow, takes a while to level up to the top. although with the new incentives they given people, the buddy-system thing, leveling is pretty damn easy. but aside from that it takes a f*** a** long time to level. its not really that its easy, its just that it takes a long time.

as for items, with arena, items are easy, but with raids its really different. honestly, i think arena screwed the game up.

yuriz43
08-26-08, 06:45 PM
I completely agree. Although there have been some great innovations over years in the genre of MMO's, it seems like everything has been watered down. Even quests are way easier. Now you have yellow question marks on all the NPC's heads, and they pretty much guide you as to where exactly to go. There is no more exploring, no more excitement, and no more thrill.

Hopefully we will see some new MMO's that are completely different from anything we are used to in the coming years.It seems like there is an Ebb & Flow with the quality of PC games. For a while RTS was dead, and now, I think its coming back. ( Starcraft 2, Warhammer 4k 2, RA3 ).Even first person shooters were sucking until recently. ( TF2, COD4)

Dvahlish
08-26-08, 10:34 PM
Im finally over wow....it just feels like a 5 yr old could sit down and easily play the game these days (and they probably do) with pretty much all attunements gone, gone are the week long AV's, with all the mods you can get these days its just a joke!
I managed to level a priest from 0-70 in 3 weeks and that was only casual playing.....I remember my first toon taking me at least a couple of months if not more...but thats because I worked everything out for myself and experienced the game. These days its all autopilot.

*sigh*

Im glad to be starting warhammer online....I hope it doesnt go down the same path :(

firehawk
08-26-08, 11:08 PM
lvling in WoW is just a hassle to get to the real game as far as im concerned.....if you play to just get to 70 then yes. WoW is boring as hell.

pRATTICUS
08-26-08, 11:32 PM
Totally agree with the OP. In current MMOs, there is no sense of risk v. reward nor the consequences to senseless acts. You thought about what you did when you were in the plane of Fear :P

jolle
08-27-08, 05:35 AM
Ultima online was pretty unforgiving with death aswell, anyone could loot your entire inventory.
That made it a pretty frightening experience leaving town if you had any items on you.
The causal way death is handled in MMOs now has its pros and cons though, going into PVP is riskless so you can spend alot of time doing that without having to gear up on each death, the way the games are made, essentiall just a big item hunt, you couldnt really have lootable gear on death either.
But its a bit less exciting.

In UO most PKs wore some free bone armor, a res robe, and a poisoned kryss, no investment what so ever, jumped other players from stealth and kept their distance while the poison did its work, which could be pretty frustrating for anyone on their way out to fight mobs with some decent armor and weapons on.

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 09:52 AM
Dunno I'm missing the days back when I played Everquest where I was scared as hell to die. Death on that game was difficult... you could lose all your items forever.

With wow I could really careless if I die. Just revive at the healer and everythings fine. At first this was great but after awhile it made me feel like there was no threat of danger.

I want a game like everquest but without that huge time sink..
Having trouble getting my idea down here. lol

Anyone understand what i'm getting at?

It is people who think everquest dumb games like that who piss me off. It is first and foremost a game. I want to have fun. Everquest punished you for playing that crappy game. When gamers realized they could play a MMO and have fun they left that horse**** game.

I hate Everquest and the whole cult that still follows that crappy game. I just want to get into a game for a hour or so, have fun and then leave. That's it. You cannot do that in Everquest. If you die you lost 20 years of killing the same damn rabbit for 20 hours a day just to make level 4. Friking stupid.

It is a game, treat it like one. I like to PVP, screw the raiding or the mindless mob grind. You Everquest geeks can have that garbage.

TheANIMAL
08-27-08, 10:01 AM
Yeah, MMO's are too easy. All of those wow geeks who now don't feel that wasting their time on MMO's is a worthy trade off for having a life/girlfriend/hobby, honestly, if wow geeks dont get a worthy challenge then some of them will start breeding and they'll never die out.

Imagine the horror.

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 10:19 AM
Yeah, MMO's are too easy. All of those wow geeks who now don't feel that wasting their time on MMO's is a worthy trade off for having a life/girlfriend/hobby, honestly, if wow geeks dont get a worthy challenge then some of them will start breeding and they'll never die out.

Imagine the horror.

Really? Really? You really want to say it is better to spend two years leveling up 4 levels and not accomplishing anything other than those 4 levels and that is not just as geeky as WoW players? Do you know how utterly stupid that is? They are both just games. WoW on the other hand is a fun game. They both suck up your time because they are MMOs but the argument you guys are making just so you cling to a game that has passed is mental.

I do not see a difference between WoW geeks and Everquest geeks. They act the same way in the MMO world.

Mr.Schme
08-27-08, 11:22 AM
But you know why MMOs are becoming easier right? THE MONEY! MMO creators want their s*** to hit the mainstream, more money, thats why they make things easier and as for no risk w/ death, just another little detail they added to please a demographic but they hoped that the group of players that actually like that risk, ignore that fact and concentrate on other areas of the game, assuming that those areas are able to balance out the risk v reward aspect.

Badboy_12345
08-27-08, 11:29 AM
It is people who think everquest dumb games like that who piss me off. It is first and foremost a game. I want to have fun. Everquest punished you for playing that crappy game. When gamers realized they could play a MMO and have fun they left that horse**** game.

I hate Everquest and the whole cult that still follows that crappy game. I just want to get into a game for a hour or so, have fun and then leave. That's it. You cannot do that in Everquest. If you die you lost 20 years of killing the same damn rabbit for 20 hours a day just to make level 4. Friking stupid.

It is a game, treat it like one. I like to PVP, screw the raiding or the mindless mob grind. You Everquest geeks can have that garbage.

QFT! Good post

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 12:25 PM
But you know why MMOs are becoming easier right? THE MONEY! MMO creators want their s*** to hit the mainstream, more money, thats why they make things easier and as for no risk w/ death, just another little detail they added to please a demographic but they hoped that the group of players that actually like that risk, ignore that fact and concentrate on other areas of the game, assuming that those areas are able to balance out the risk v reward aspect.
ALL games are about money. DUH! You take this stuff way to serious. Do you actually think the creators of Everquest sat down and said "lets make a game for the love of making games that piss people off and punish them for playing it. And just to make things more interesting, lets not make any money off the game. After all we want to be purists and show our love of video game torture" Are you friking high? The reason they got rid of the stupid death penalties is because most people thought it was FUCING STUPID! Only a very tiny minority of people like the high punishment rate in Everquest. Only a tiny few people like games like Everquest where the developers say to the people buying their service "F YOU IM THE DUNGEON MASTER AND YOU WILL PLAY MY ****ING VISION OF THIS HELLHOLE CALLED EVERQUEST"

In EVERY aspect WoW is a better game than Everquest. You guys are pissing and moaning because the vast majority of people do not like punishing games like Everquest. If you like that style of game then good for you, go play it. Just shut your damn pie hole and let us play the games we like in peace. I hate WoW fanboys just as much as I hate you Everquest fanboys. I play these games to hang out with my online buddies on vent.

Tr1cK
08-27-08, 01:48 PM
Ultima online was pretty unforgiving with death aswell, anyone could loot your entire inventory.
That made it a pretty frightening experience leaving town if you had any items on you.
The causal way death is handled in MMOs now has its pros and cons though, going into PVP is riskless so you can spend alot of time doing that without having to gear up on each death, the way the games are made, essentiall just a big item hunt, you couldnt really have lootable gear on death either.
But its a bit less exciting.

In UO most PKs wore some free bone armor, a res robe, and a poisoned kryss, no investment what so ever, jumped other players from stealth and kept their distance while the poison did its work, which could be pretty frustrating for anyone on their way out to fight mobs with some decent armor and weapons on.

This. UO was the most hardcore MMO made until the 2nd expansion. All of them have been "care bear" ever since.

Times have changed though and not many people want to be losing at a game they have worked so long and hard on. It's a game, not a job. It's meant to be fun, not tons of work. WoW is hard enough work as it is, putting in time to get the items/gear/rep to play at the higher levels and be competitive.

Mr.Schme
08-27-08, 02:08 PM
ALL games are about money. DUH! You take this stuff way to serious. Do you actually think the creators of Everquest sat down and said "lets make a game for the love of making games that piss people off and punish them for playing it. And just to make things more interesting, lets not make any money off the game. After all we want to be purists and show our love of video game torture" Are you friking high? The reason they got rid of the stupid death penalties is because most people thought it was FUCING STUPID! Only a very tiny minority of people like the high punishment rate in Everquest. Only a tiny few people like games like Everquest where the developers say to the people buying their service "F YOU IM THE DUNGEON MASTER AND YOU WILL PLAY MY ****ING VISION OF THIS HELLHOLE CALLED EVERQUEST"

In EVERY aspect WoW is a better game than Everquest. You guys are pissing and moaning because the vast majority of people do not like punishing games like Everquest. If you like that style of game then good for you, go play it. Just shut your damn pie hole and let us play the games we like in peace. I hate WoW fanboys just as much as I hate you Everquest fanboys. I play these games to hang out with my online buddies on vent.

No f***ing s*** everyone is in it to make money! Games like EQ appealed to a certain type of gamer, too bad that certain type of gamer wasn't a large group of people comparing to the whole group of 'gamers' in general. I was stating that when a game like EQ came out, it was just fun for that group but wasn't appealing at all to other groups of gamers for various reasons. With games like WoW, Blizz made the game for group X, and over the years theyve twinked the game to get groups Y, Z, ... etc thus making the game more mainstream and attracting a wider variety of gamers. By making the game appeal to more, you're going to eventually lose some earlier demographics because the negative changes made out weigh the aspects in which group X liked. Sucks for them, because by making those changes blizz added groups Y, Z, A and B but losing group X. Fair deal to them, they get more money, but they lose the group that they initially targeted.

Btw i didn't even mention a preference of EQ or WoW, i was commenting on MMOs as a whole and why theyre so much easier. l2read.

Monolyth
08-27-08, 02:08 PM
If you don't enjoy what you do in your free time then yeah it's wasted time, but if you do enjoy what you are doing then it doesn't matter what other people say about how you spend it. People that look for approval from others on how they live their lives need to actually start living their lives.

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 02:16 PM
No f***ing s*** everyone is in it to make money! Games like EQ appealed to a certain type of gamer, too bad that certain type of gamer wasn't a large group of people comparing to the whole group of 'gamers' in general. I was stating that when a game like EQ came out, it was just fun for that group but wasn't appealing at all to other groups of gamers for various reasons. With games like WoW, Blizz made the game for group X, and over the years theyve twinked the game to get groups Y, Z, ... etc thus making the game more mainstream and attracting a wider variety of gamers. By making the game appeal to more, you're going to eventually lose some earlier demographics because the negative changes made out weigh the aspects in which group X liked. Sucks for them, because by making those changes blizz added groups Y, Z, A and B but losing group X. Fair deal to them, they get more money, but they lose the group that they initially targeted.

Btw i didn't even mention a preference of EQ or WoW, i was commenting on MMOs as a whole and why theyre so much easier. l2read.
I threw in the WoW comments because that is what is being compared. L2comprehend. ;)

I really don't care about what demographics are lost or gain. That is the concern of the developer. Who cares if they lost the Everquest target? It hasn't hurt their bottom line at all.

Monolyth
08-27-08, 02:42 PM
EQ - 200k subscribers...
WoW - 10m subscribers...

WoW > EQ

Mr.Schme
08-27-08, 03:20 PM
I threw in the WoW comments because that is what is being compared. L2comprehend. ;)

I really don't care about what demographics are lost or gain. That is the concern of the developer. Who cares if they lost the Everquest target? It hasn't hurt their bottom line at all.


Indeed. I meant aspects of the game that Blizz changed, the ones that brought new people in, but vet gamers away. I guess it was lost in translation :S. But yeah, bottom line, they have more people subscribing that originally, a win for them.

TheANIMAL
08-27-08, 04:52 PM
Really? Really? You really want to say it is better to spend two years leveling up 4 levels and not accomplishing anything other than those 4 levels and that is not just as geeky as WoW players? Do you know how utterly stupid that is? They are both just games. WoW on the other hand is a fun game. They both suck up your time because they are MMOs but the argument you guys are making just so you cling to a game that has passed is mental.

I do not see a difference between WoW geeks and Everquest geeks. They act the same way in the MMO world.


The difference is i murder wow geeks. And personally i hate all MMO's.


I can't believe you took me seriously, you prat.

DansFace
08-27-08, 05:38 PM
I'm glad to see that a few people agree with me. I hope we see a much more difficult MMORPGs without the huge time sink.

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 05:40 PM
The difference is i murder wow geeks. And personally i hate all MMO's.


I can't believe you took me seriously, you prat.

The internet is serious!

CaptnStubing
08-27-08, 05:41 PM
I'm glad to see that a few people agree with me. I hope we see a much more difficult MMORPGs without the huge time sink.

LMAO! the more difficult MMOs are a time sink. They invented the time sink.

DansFace
08-27-08, 05:50 PM
LMAO! the more difficult MMOs are a time sink. They invented the time sink.

right