View Full Version : Formula 1 Officialy a Joke
Lfctony
09-07-08, 02:24 PM
After today, I'm finally convinced...
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43853
Lewis Hamilton has had his Belgian Grand Prix victory overturned by the stewards, handing the win to title rival Felipe Massa, who finished second on the road.
slaWter
09-07-08, 02:30 PM
I agree, the FIA is on the best way to destroy this amazing sport. Hamilton won fair and square, the followed the rules and had the best car control in those difficult last laps.
But I'm not really surprised, just disappointed.
That incident didn't even had an influence on the last two laps. Kimi and Lewis passed each other multiple times after that, Kimi spun out twice and the Ferrari wasn't able to keep up the same tyre temperatures as the Mercedes.
FlyVomit
09-07-08, 02:51 PM
If your car isn't red you are not allowed to win - pathetic
That's what happens when one breaches Article 30.3(a) Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code... (saith the article)
vampireuk
09-07-08, 03:04 PM
Despite the fact he gave up the lead right after he cut the corner, they have no grounds of complaint. He cut the corner to avoid crashing into each other and allowed him to pass after he did so. If his car was red nothing would have happened.
That's what happens when one breaches Article 30.3(a) Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code... (saith the article)
I thought you were joking there until I read the article. Man, they don't make these things short, do they?
But, yeah. He cheated, he got penalised for it. Fair enough, innit? Lewis is my favourite driver this season, and I would've preferred it if they'd just let him off with it, but bumping him down to third place isn't too bad, notwhen you consider that the alternative might've been disqualification.
bob saget
09-07-08, 05:35 PM
Hamilton is pretty amazing though. You guys think he will take the overall championship this year?
I thought you were joking there until I read the article. Man, they don't make these things short, do they?
But, yeah. He cheated, he got penalised for it. Fair enough, innit? Lewis is my favourite driver this season, and I would've preferred it if they'd just let him off with it, but bumping him down to third place isn't too bad, notwhen you consider that the alternative might've been disqualification.
He didn't cheat though, this is what piffs me off. :( He had no choice but to cut the corner. When he did, he gave up his place just to prove that cheating wasn't his intention. I'm pretty sure most people would have just continued on, not giving up their place and blag that they had no choice but to do it.
npras42
09-07-08, 08:53 PM
I thought you were joking there until I read the article. Man, they don't make these things short, do they?
But, yeah. He cheated, he got penalised for it. Fair enough, innit? Lewis is my favourite driver this season, and I would've preferred it if they'd just let him off with it, but bumping him down to third place isn't too bad, notwhen you consider that the alternative might've been disqualification.
How did he cheat? He slowed down and let him back through. If it was considered cheating everytime someone went off the track then there wouldn't be many racing in wet/rainy conditions.
Once again the FIA side with Ferrari without Ferrari even making a complaint... they might as well just give them the title for the next few years ahead of time and save everyone a bit of money on developing cars.
Heh, I love you guys bashing the FIA for favoritism :)
Schumi has been penalized how many times? And the minor slap on the wrist that McLaren received last season for the spying scandal was shocking.
Kimi was in the lead and effectively blocking, which is legal. Lewis initiated the chain of events that led to Kimi, again, who was in the LEAD, to spin and crash. By virtue of Kimi crashing, due to Lewis' actions, I would think justice was served.
Lewis DID cut Kimi off and there is a difference in allowing someone to get past you in a legit manner and something completely different in attacking the person immediately after the nose of their car is in front of yours.
The stewards did the right thing in this case.
Lfctony
09-08-08, 04:15 AM
Heh, I love you guys bashing the FIA for favoritism :)
Schumi has been penalized how many times? And the minor slap on the wrist that McLaren received last season for the spying scandal was shocking.
Kimi was in the lead and effectively blocking, which is legal. Lewis initiated the chain of events that led to Kimi, again, who was in the LEAD, to spin and crash. By virtue of Kimi crashing, due to Lewis' actions, I would think justice was served.
Lewis DID cut Kimi off and there is a difference in allowing someone to get past you in a legit manner and something completely different in attacking the person immediately after the nose of their car is in front of yours.
The stewards did the right thing in this case.
No, I'm sorry. That's foul logic. You don't penalize someone for causing "a chain of events". Kimi crashed one whole minute after the whole event took place so that's bull... By the same logic, pushing your opponent to overtake him should be banned as well(might cause him to crash). Kimi span and crashed because of the water on the track, like many other people did, so many times. The only question here is whether Hamilton gained an unfair advantage or not by cutting through the chicane (he also claimed Kimi forced him out). I don't believe he gained an advantage, he was slower, McLaren have the data and they're appealing. All the other mambo jambo you're talking about is irrelevant and doesn't make sense.
Here's a video, notice how Raikonnen essentially forces Hamilton out of the track by not allowing him through, even if Hamilton had the inside driving line with the cars next to each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRwWk7bSoD4
sytaylor
09-08-08, 04:50 AM
Kimi was in the lead and effectively blocking, which is legal. Lewis initiated the chain of events that led to Kimi, again, who was in the LEAD, to spin and crash. By virtue of Kimi crashing, due to Lewis' actions, I would think justice was served.
Im sorry but cutting the corner before the home straight, is not a chain of events leading to Kimi's eventual crash. Hamilton slid onto the grass further round the course, Kimi came flying through the corner, spun and crashed.
Completely separate event. Instead of docking Lewis a couple of championship points for, not cheating, they've disqualified?
**** that.
Shamrock
09-08-08, 04:56 AM
They didn't DQ Lewis, he got a 25 second penalty, officially placing him 3rd.
npras42
09-08-08, 07:46 AM
Heh, I love you guys bashing the FIA for favoritism :)
Schumi has been penalized how many times? And the minor slap on the wrist that McLaren received last season for the spying scandal was shocking.
Kimi was in the lead and effectively blocking, which is legal. Lewis initiated the chain of events that led to Kimi, again, who was in the LEAD, to spin and crash. By virtue of Kimi crashing, due to Lewis' actions, I would think justice was served.
Lewis DID cut Kimi off and there is a difference in allowing someone to get past you in a legit manner and something completely different in attacking the person immediately after the nose of their car is in front of yours.
The stewards did the right thing in this case.]
Thats completely ridiculous. Kimi crashed a good minute or so later and there was a whole other event that happened in between - he should be embarrased by his lack of control.Also in that case Rosberg should be penalised too because he spun off 2 corners after this incident in the middle of the track forcing Lewis to go wide off the track again and Kimi to slow down to move around him and take the lead.
Also, how many times did Schumi get penalised for even a remotely grey-area issue? He managed to get away with having parts on his car that weren't FIA spec with a few docked points that made no difference at the time. His other penalties have been for things like crashing in to Villeneuve and Hill when he had everything to gain from them being out of the race and nothing to lose from crashing out himself.
LordJuanlo
09-08-08, 07:53 AM
there is a difference in allowing someone to get past you in a legit manner and something completely different in attacking the person immediately after the nose of their car is in front of yours.
The stewards did the right thing in this case.
Totally agree, that's what I thought when I saw it live
Lfctony
09-08-08, 10:02 AM
He is therefore in front coming out of the chicane, but crucially he is on a line he would not have been on had he taken the chicane normally.
Although he clearly hands back the lead to Kimi as they cross the start/finish line and the timing sheets show you that Kimi clearly crossed the line first, he is on him immediately afterwards.
And this is the nub of the stewards’ argument.
Raikkonen’s car did get fully in front of Hamilton’s – his speed across the start/finish line was 212km/h, compared to 206km/h for Hamilton – but Lewis immediately regains the momentum.
Kimi then does a kind of double block on him before Lewis sticks his car up the inside into La Source.
Lewis was much faster than Kimi at that point of the race because the McLaren keeps heat in its tyres better in those conditions, as we saw in Silverstone, especially on the harder compound.
So Kimi was finished anyway. Lewis had him; he was always going to get him before the finish.
http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=43872
sytaylor
09-08-08, 10:32 AM
They didn't DQ Lewis, he got a 25 second penalty, officially placing him 3rd.
Heard that on the news in the car this morning. My first thought was ****... I made a mistake on my morning visit to nv-mews.
Myow.
If your car isn't red you are not allowed to win - patheticwhen Ferrari was the dominant team in F1, ie, when Schumie was winning virtually every race and his five consecutive championships, it seemed the FIA was out to get Ferrari. they are one of the most political governing sports bodies in the world, and McLaren is in the doghouse ever since Spy-Gate last year.
disclosure: i am a Ferrari fan.
but i agree: Hamilton was robbed. yesterday afternoon i called my uncle and asked him who won the race--he said Hamilton. when i told him Massa was declared the winner, he was shocked. Hamilton may have gained the advantage by cutting the corner, but he immediately allowed Räikkönen to pass and regain the lead. when i first saw it, Räikkönen passed the start/finish line but Hamilton was right on his tail. perhaps if he had backed off just a little more, the stewards would have allowed the chicane cut and Hamilton would still have likely won. more from the James Allen ITV F1 article:
The stewards clearly felt that he didn’t give back enough of the advantage he gained from cutting the chicane.
Watching it over and over again you can see what they mean; it’s a very delicately balanced call.
LordJuanlo
09-09-08, 08:17 AM
The stewards clearly felt that he didn’t give back enough of the advantage he gained from cutting the chicane.
That is exactly was I was talking about. He gained a lot of advantage by cutting the chicane and didn't allow Kimi to recover it. Penalty for Hamilton is correct and fair
Lfctony
09-09-08, 09:36 AM
That is exactly was I was talking about. He gained a lot of advantage by cutting the chicane and didn't allow Kimi to recover it. Penalty for Hamilton is correct and fair
The large majority believes otherwise mate. I've not seen anyone actually come out and back up the decision. Only against it... Discussing this with my brother and my dad, both fanatical Ferrari supporters, they were also baffled by the decision and thought it was incorrect. That's what most people feel, disgusted by the whole decision...
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43875
Former world champion Niki Lauda has blasted the Belgian Grand Prix stewards' decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton as a "stupid" verdict that will make fans turn away from the sport.
Hamilton won the Spa race on the road after a frantic late dice with Kimi Raikkonen, but was given a 25 second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during their battle - even though he immediately let the Ferrari back through.
Lauda, who won titles for both Ferrari and McLaren, admitted that the officials' actions left him baffled and frustrated.
"I do not understand this completely wrong decision," he told BBC Radio Five Live.
lynedavid
09-09-08, 11:11 AM
Hamilton did gain a small advantage by cutting the chicane as he could then slip-stream Kimi down the short pit straight.
However, he did not deserve a penalty this big. Maybe a 5 place grid penalty for the next race would of been better. He was pushing the rules a bit. Being a bit cheeky no more than that.
Also, I think this has less to do with Ferrari/FIA bias and more to do with trying to manurfacture a close end to the championship. Which is still a farce!
lynedavid
09-09-08, 11:15 AM
Kimi was in the lead and effectively blocking, which is legal. Lewis initiated the chain of events that led to Kimi, again, who was in the LEAD, to spin and crash. By virtue of Kimi crashing, due to Lewis' actions, I would think justice was served.
Rubbish! It was Kimi's own fault that he span off. That fact should not even be taken into consideration.
Justice was served? You must be a huge Ferrari fan or Spanish to think that.
lynedavid
09-09-08, 11:18 AM
Totally agree, that's what I thought when I saw it live
You would say that . Your probably a HUGE Alonso fan. Spanish people only started watching F1 in 2004.
slaWter
09-09-08, 11:20 AM
That is exactly was I was talking about. He gained a lot of advantage by cutting the chicane and didn't allow Kimi to recover it. Penalty for Hamilton is correct and fair
Still angry about the Alonso drama? ;)
LordJuanlo
09-09-08, 12:06 PM
Yes, I am a big Alonso fan and I want the best for him ;). And IMO the best that could happen to Alonso is that Hamilton won the championship this year, so Ferrari got rid of Kimi and could look to Alonso for next year. So I want Hamilton to win this year.
But yes, I really think Hamilton deserves this penalty, if you let the other car regain position, you don't stay close on his tail, you let him go a couple of meters and then you continue your pursuit. He would have passed Kimi anyway, Lewis is much better pilot on wet track.
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