Quak issue.. one last time the Difinitive Truth Thread.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Sazar
eh no...

consider reading on this matter... its a little excerpt written by toms... and what HE did and WHY he didnt post about the 'hacks' and what he thought of kyle on this matter...

tom did not send anything to kyle.. nvidia mailed a bunch of review sites with the same material... hardocp decided to go through with it..

there is no information out there stating thomas sent kyle this information...

here is the link to refresh your memory...

http://www4.tomshardware.com/blurb/20020825/index.html


First Sazar, Don't apreciate your tone, Secondly, I misread that, But don't patronize me about a simple mis quote. I would do you no such disfavor

Most importantly. This isn't some "super friendly Nvidia PR guy and Kyle story"

I was merely saying it was sent to several people. And it was not paticularly aimed at Kyle, Kyle just netted it like a moron.


Whats so amusing about this. Is It did happen, And We have people here still trying to friggin discredit that it did happen, It's like some form of denial. How the information got there at this point is irrelevent.

It happened, it was a mountain out of an ant hill. I consider all this "cheating" crap to be mountains out of ant hills.

To the point you guys will argue about who's right, Who is more right and who is more wrong.

The whole problem is both sides of the argument are trying to justify something they have no control over, Something they cannot change.

It's not your place to put justification on either companies, You guys seriously do more PR work than anyone at Nvidia or ATI could possibly do.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
First Sazar, Don't apreciate your tone, Secondly, I misread that, But don't patronize me about a simple mis quote. I would do you no such disfavor

Most importantly. This isn't some "super friendly Nvidia PR guy and Kyle story"

I was merely saying it was sent to several people. And it was not paticularly aimed at Kyle, Kyle just netted it like a moron.


Whats so amusing about this. Is It did happen, And We have people here still trying to friggin discredit that it did happen, It's like some form of denial. How the information got there at this point is irrelevent.

It happened, it was a mountain out of an ant hill. I consider all this "cheating" crap to be mountains out of ant hills.

To the point you guys will argue about who's right, Who is more right and who is more wrong.

The whole problem is both sides of the argument are trying to justify something they have no control over, Something they cannot change.

It's not your place to put justification on either companies, You guys seriously do more PR work than anyone at Nvidia or ATI could possibly do.

I was pointing out you had made a factual error when linking thomas with kyle... in this particular situation...

actually I had posted something else and had to edit since I realised the post I had addressed did not exist in this thread... the chopping apparently rendered the tone harsher than I had intended... so please don't feel offended... I make many errors myself in things I post off the top of my head... and these things are pointed out by other posters gracious enough to do so..

again... don't feel offended.. that was not my intention...

on topic : as a consumer though I am entitled to voice my opinions on the ethical issues @ hand :)

were it not for consumers like yourself and I... these IHV's would not have much market share ( I am incl. OEM's as well into this :) )

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Sazar
I was pointing out you had made a factual error when linking thomas with kyle... in this particular situation...

actually I had posted something else and had to edit since I realised the post I had addressed did not exist in this thread... the chopping apparently rendered the tone harsher than I had intended... so please don't feel offended... I make many errors myself in things I post off the top of my head... and these things are pointed out by other posters gracious enough to do so..

again... don't feel offended.. that was not my intention...

on topic : as a consumer though I am entitled to voice my opinions on the ethical issues @ hand :)

were it not for consumers like yourself and I... these IHV's would not have much market share ( I am incl. OEM's as well into this :) )


It's ok. It's no big deal. It just seemed kinda... patronizing. if you know what I mean. None taken.

As a Consumer we're all entitled to voice our opinion. I agree, But I was more so speaking on this paticular issue. The whole Nvidia and ATI cheating thing, Wouldn't you see say its being blown a wee bit out of proportion?

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
As a Consumer we're all entitled to voice our opinion. I agree, But I was more so speaking on this paticular issue. The whole Nvidia and ATI cheating thing, Wouldn't you see say its being blown a wee bit out of proportion?

I wouldn't say so. Since nvidia has basically exchanged one cheat for another across multiple driver sets. At least ATI cheated with one driver set only, and after that they stopped...or at least weren't caught.

Let's play Devil's advocate and assume that all the cheats in 3dmark03 were actually driver bugs. Is there any excuse for such buggy drivers with such a delayed product? Not to mention that nvidia actually launched the damn chip in November? Surely they had ample time not to have so many huge bugs.

nvidia hyped up NV30 and its features like there was no tomorrow. And then they get caught cheating...very disconcerting if you ask me. This whole NV3x debacle leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. The only nvidia cards I would consider right now are the gfFX5600Ultra(new one), and the gfFX5900.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
I wouldn't say so. Since nvidia has basically exchanged one cheat for another across multiple driver sets. At least ATI cheated with one driver set only, and after that they stopped...or at least weren't caught.

Let's play Devil's advocate and assume that all the cheats in 3dmark03 were actually driver bugs. Is there any excuse for such buggy drivers with such a delayed product? Not to mention that nvidia actually launched the damn chip in November? Surely they had ample time not to have so many huge bugs.

nvidia hyped up NV30 and its features like there was no tomorrow. And then they get caught cheating...very disconcerting if you ask me. This whole NV3x debacle leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. The only nvidia cards I would consider right now are the gfFX5600Ultra(new one), and the gfFX5900.

Shrug I disagree with you, This is just another one of those things no one will care about in a month.

At this point all the arguing is moot, All you can do is wait and see,

Until then. It's out of proportion in my feelings. I get the feeling some of you people actually sit there and shake your fist at the Nvidia and ATI logos and argue like you guys work for the PR team

[SurfMonkey]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
This is simply not a dead issue. It also raises the point that ATi is usually referenced as the cheater, becuase of Quak... But.. The Evidence seems to be that Nvidia has been Cheating for a much longer time and it still continues to this day.

Look what they did in that Radeon GF2 article. They *CLEARLY* reduced the Texture quality in the *ENTIRE* game. The Fact is Nvidia has been outright decieving people for a long long time. while Ati are the ones with the bad rap. All becuase of Nvidias continuous unethical Behavior.

OK they didn't cheat but they did *optimise* their drivers in such a way that it reduced image quality and inflated the timedemo scores. Hmm...

No I don't gree with nvidia cheating in 3DMark, it's a bad thing for the consumer. But I also don't agree with the total reliance on synthetic benchmarks in reviews.

And I am also not naive enough to believe that nvidia are the only ones cutting corners in benchmarks. They just got busted that's all. ATI aren't whiter than white, they've already proven that, so have SiS, Trident etc.

And while I'm here, why have you bothered starting this thread? You know the issue will never be resolved and that you are just opening up a fetid can of rotten worms that should just be left well alone. The only point I can to this thread at all is so that you can continue the pointless jibes at nvidia, and you very quickly turned the issue to nvidia cheating, away from quack. Away with you, come back when you can be a little more constructive. Or are you worried that people will just forget about this whole issue? Well maybe they will, they obviously have lives outside of their gfx cards.

Oh and by the way, ATI sux0r3, NVidia r0x0r3 ;)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
It's ok. It's no big deal. It just seemed kinda... patronizing. if you know what I mean. None taken.

As a Consumer we're all entitled to voice our opinion. I agree, But I was more so speaking on this paticular issue. The whole Nvidia and ATI cheating thing, Wouldn't you see say its being blown a wee bit out of proportion?

:D

yah... some take it to heart more so than others...

I have not been well lately so I have been spending more time on the forums and its been good there are topics to discuss :D

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Shrug I disagree with you, This is just another one of those things no one will care about in a month.

And I disagree, because nvidia at this point in time seems to be cheating very frequently. Each successive cheat they pull off makes them look worse. I agree with you, if this was a one time deal, it wouldn't be so bad.

And it is pretty obvious, or should be, that nvidia is cheating in order to cover up the deficiencies of the NV3x cards.

Also, people still bring up Quack, and it has been almost two years. Do you honestly think people will forget these multiple nvidia driver cheats/hacks?

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
And I disagree, because nvidia at this point in time seems to be cheating very frequently. Each successive cheat they pull off makes them look worse. I agree with you, if this was a one time deal, it wouldn't be so bad.

And it is pretty obvious, or should be, that nvidia is cheating in order to cover up the deficiencies of the NV3x cards.

Also, people still bring up Quack, and it has been almost two years. Do you honestly think people will forget these multiple nvidia driver cheats/hacks?

Yes I do, Only reason Quack keeps being brought up is because of Nvidia right now,

It's a standard justification to a justification people like to use. SO and So did this. Well so? So and so did this first!


By the time it gets fixed, ANd I do believe it will be fixed, With some other trick that we probably cannot see, It'll be the same thing over and over,

No ones gonna care, But hey thats me. I sure as heck don't care about a driver that "may have" "or did" Cheat 2 years ago, and you will find the average won't either :P

[SurfMonkey]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Yes I do, Only reason Quack keeps being brought up is because of Nvidia right now,

It's a standard justification to a justification people like to use. SO and So did this. Well so? So and so did this first!


By the time it gets fixed, ANd I do believe it will be fixed, With some other trick that we probably cannot see, It'll be the same thing over and over,

No ones gonna care, But hey thats me. I sure as heck don't care about a driver that "may have" "or did" Cheat 2 years ago, and you will find the average won't either :P

Unfortuanately I don't think it will be quite the way it was. With the level of antipathy towards nvidia currently I think their driver releases will come under much more scrutiny by the tech savvy boards. And all in an effort to find the latest cheat.

This is good for ATI as it allows them to get away with almost anything, as people won't be looking at them as hard. Then again nvidia are getting alot more *air* time and all publicity is good publicity. People soon forget about minor infractions if they can get their hands on kick ass kit.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Yes I do, Only reason Quack keeps being brought up is because of Nvidia right now,

It's a standard justification to a justification people like to use. SO and So did this. Well so? So and so did this first!


By the time it gets fixed, ANd I do believe it will be fixed, With some other trick that we probably cannot see, It'll be the same thing over and over,

No ones gonna care, But hey thats me. I sure as heck don't care about a driver that "may have" "or did" Cheat 2 years ago, and you will find the average won't either :P

Not really true. People brought up Quack before nvidia cheated in NV3x drivers. Of course those were usually rabid fanboys. I don't think people are going to let this die down.

We'll see though. Maybe NV40 will be the unquestionable king, and that will shut everyone up :)

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
We'll see though. Maybe NV40 will be the unquestionable king, and that will shut everyone up :)

Bah the NV40 could beat every card by a clear 50fps in every game with no driver "bugs" to be found and people would still moan;)

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by vampireuk
Bah the NV40 could beat every card by a clear 50fps in every game with no driver "bugs" to be found and people would still moan;)
If that was the case, the only thing people would moan about was not having or being able to afford one!:nono:

[muzz]

No PS... they would complain that they weren't able to FIND one to buy..........:D