My 9700 vs FX 5800 Ultra...

[RobHague]

Overdue 9700pro vs GeforceFX 5800 Ultra

From the perspective of someone that has used both, I said a bit back that I would post if anyone was interested in my experiences. So ill just go down quickly what I think so far (Ive had it for just under 2 days upto now). I don't want to start a flame war here btw - I just felt it worth posting.

Installation & Drivers

I had to change my PSU because the 9700 AIW didn’t like the one I had with my particular setup. The GeforceFX was fine with the Enermax I had but the AIW didn’t like it at all. The drivers seemed to install fine and so far I like the ATI control panel a bit more than NVIDIA’s current one. I don’t like what nvidia did with the tabs on the Det FX’s. On the whole the ATI drivers seem quite good, seem to work well with all the games ive tried. One or two issues but nothing too serious.

Heat

Just thought id clear this myth up, the AIW makes my case temp HIGHER than the GeforceFX. Look like FXFlow was good for something afterall. I am told the AIW does run a tad hot though anyway so I guess a standard 9700 may not have that problem but in this case the FX wins, my case temp is about 4-5*c higher than it was before.

Noise

Thought id add it as I put ‘heat’ too. Anyway with a loud PC the FXFlow on the FX didn’t bother me in the slightest. As soon as I quieted the PC down (so I could use it as a DVD player too) the fan was VERY noticable and became very annoying. Im sorry to say that I couldn’t have kept the FX anyway because of this sound issue – it was slowly driving me mad. SO I would have gotten something else anyway if not an ATI.

Image Quality

I see this mentioned a lot, and to be very honest the FX and 9700 (to my eyes) give a great image, both in windows and in games. However… the AntiAliasing on the 9700 is noticably better than it was on the FX. With the FX enabling AA didn’t really seem to get rid of the jaggies so I just left it off – with the 9700 enabling it does make a very nice and noticable difference. So id say the 9700 pips the FX in terms of IQ slightly because of its AA. I had the 9700 and FX at max AF and I really couldn’t tell them apart although as its shown the NV cards do have sharper textures. But the better AA is very noticable.

Benchmarks...

Only tested 3Dmark 2001 and 2003. In 2001 i get a better score (about 400 marks more) however in 2003 i get a lower score. 4863 vs 5202 with my FX. Not too bad though considering the benifits gained.

Value

My FX 5800U was £377 Inc VAT, the 9700 AIW was £350 inc Vat.

When you stack up the features the AIW is cheaper and offers tons of extra features, so again the ATI card wins here – but the FX was never about value for money really. Considering I had to buy a new PSU though im at a total of £400 to get this card working which I think should count against Ati here normally, but as this issue is only common to the AIW’s ill take it as a one off and wont hold it against them for the moment.

Right Choice?

Im quite happy with the card so far and I think that a swop for the FX (I sold my FX on ebay so the AIW didn’t really cost me anything) for the AIW 9700 was a wise one. I look forward to putting the extra features to good use when I get my self sorted and also playing some games finally :D all ive been doing for the past few months is buying hardware lol.

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Not sure if anyone will find this usful but I thought it was worth a post anyway, even if it is only of interest to one person – that’s something. :)

[digitalwanderer]

Well, I was interested! Thanks for giving a first hand impression of both cards, it was good. :)

One thing, you had trouble with the 9700 Pro and your ennermax? I'm planning on getting one and got a pretty nice ennermax PS, what was the problem with yours?

[RobHague]

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11442&pagenumber=1

:) It seems to affect the AIW's the most, i read in Rage3d. Had i not spotted the thread in there i wouldnt have known what PSU's worked mind you. Chieftec 360w i have now. Nice quality too, very heavy like the Enermax, mesh on the cables etc etc. They were about the same price though.

Basically though the PC wouldnt powerup with the AIW connected to the PSU. Took it out and it was fine - connected it up and it 'shorted' out as such.

[digitalwanderer]

Not benchmarks, but did you play any games on both cards and what were your general impressions?

[Quinn1981]

There is no such thing as the "right choice" when going for video cards. You have to pick what is good and important to yourself. Good advice and recommendations are always composed of unbiased observations that will help you make your choice.

Thank you for good observations. :)

[RobHague]

Originally posted by Quinn1981
There is no such thing as the "right choice" when going for video cards. You have to pick what is good and important to yourself. Good advice and recommendations are always composed of unbiased observations that will help you make your choice.

Thank you for good observations. :)

Yeah i meant Right Choice for me but i know what you mean. :D

A few games digitalwanderer, Splinter Cell is what ive played on both cards right now. Ill play more games that ive used on the FX a bit later but my impressions of the games were that AA looked noticably nicer/smoother. :)

[digitalwanderer]

I'm real curious about hearing from someone who's tried either game on some high-end cards from either side. GTA3 was probably the biggest reason I chose to hang on to me GF3 over me 8500.

Speaking of which, HI QUINN!!!! :D

(Hey Quinn, do you want little Z? I'm getting a bit miffed at nVidia lately. :( )

[Quinn1981]

If you want my official yes, yes. :)

I've got the perfect place for the 8500... I think my cousins will love it. Their dad is cheap bastard, so they should enjoy something at least close to up to date. :rolleyes:

[jimmyjames123]

The impressions are nice, but isn't this review very much out-of-date now that the Detonator FX drivers are out?

These new drivers have shown significant improvements in image quality and performance for a wide variety of gaming benchmarks. Just read the reviews at places like FiringSquad, Tom's, Anandtech, etc

[Sazar]

I'm just glad you got the card to work with tinkering around with the PSU...

congrats... and happy 3d gaming/dvd viewing and what not...

[RobHague]

Originally posted by jimmyjames123
The impressions are nice, but isn't this review very much out-of-date now that the Detonator FX drivers are out?

These new drivers have shown significant improvements in image quality and performance for a wide variety of gaming benchmarks. Just read the reviews at places like FiringSquad, Tom's, Anandtech, etc

Urmm :confused: i only changed the card a few days ago, i was using said DetonatorFX drivers with my NV30 ;) and this isnt a 'Review' - Its my own personal experience after having both cards.

The DetFX may improve a lot of things, but nothing i actually could see (apart from the 3dmark scores). The AA implimentation is the SAME with any driver and its very aparent when u compare the R300 and NV30. With the NV30 @ Max AA i still saw jaggies so i just left it off - with the R300 it actually does give a noticable difference. Ive not noticed any jaggies yet. :)

This isnt a 'R300 is better than FX' thread, i loved my FX card. Had it been a tad quieter i would have kept it - but i dont think ive lost anything by moving over to the R300 from the FX - apart from NVIDIA's drivers. But if i put aside my love for NVIDIA's products in general then if someone asked me which card to buy i would be pointing them to ATI's offerings with the 'value for money' in mind. But its not important... :)

Originally posted by Sazar

I'm just glad you got the card to work with tinkering around with the PSU...

congrats... and happy 3d gaming/dvd viewing and what not...


Hehe me too :D i didnt really want a vanilla 9800 pro as i could only play games with it pure and simple. I want to get more from my system and the AIW is a loveley product (when it works ;)). Im having quite a lot of fun with it - just hooked up the remote control hehe, fun fun fun :D

*edit* :D ;)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by RobHague
Urmm :confused: i only changed the card a few days ago, i was using said DetonatorFX drivers with my NV30 ;) and this isnt a 'Review' - Its my own personal experience after having both cards.

The DetFX may improve a lot of things, but nothing i actually could see (apart from the 3dmark scores). The AA implimentation is the SAME with any driver and its very aparent when u compare the R300 and NV30. With the NV30 @ Max AA i still saw jaggies so i just left it off - with the R300 it actually does give a noticable difference. Ive not noticed any jaggies yet. :)

This isnt a 'R300 is better than FX' thread, i loved my FX card. Had it been a tad quieter i would have kept it - but i dont think ive lost anything by moving over to the R300 from the FX - apart from NVIDIA's drivers. But if i put aside my love for NVIDIA's products in general then if someone asked me which card to buy i would be pointing them to ATI's offerings with the 'value for money' in mind. But its not important... :)



Hehe me too :D i didnt really want a vanilla 9800 pro as i could only play games with it pure and simple. I want to get more from my system and the AIW is a loveley product (when it works ;)). Im having quite a lot of fun with it - just hooked up the remote control hehe, fun fun fun :D

edit your quote lol... you got wrong person in the quote thinger :D

[jimmyjames123]

Wow, I guess you really cut it close because the Detonator FX's were only released 4 days ago. You were able to test it and sell it in 3 days? Oh well, enjoy!

Note: I think one of the main differences with the Detonator FX drivers will be that the highest "Quality" mode performs much better than before (ie takes much less performance hit), and the higher performing modes also apparently look better than before.

[RobHague]

I have sold it, i still have it here though under my desk right now. ;) You see i sold it on ebay, and im currentley waiting for the persons cheque to clear before i send a £370 card on its way.. call me paranoid. I was still using it up till friday.

Im sorry but im not 'fabricating' this to make ATI look better or something :rolleyes: its the truth. I ran DetFX (my ATi card was only working from Friday remember!), wonderful drivers they were. Nice performance boost's but once again nothing changed that i could visibly see with my own eyes. Apart from the nicer 3dmark scores...

However, hand on heart, the AA is visibly better to my eyes than with my NV30. But my NV30 smokes the 9700 in 3dmark etc (with no AA/AF). :)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by RobHague
I have sold it, i still have it here though under my desk right now. ;) You see i sold it on ebay, and im currentley waiting for the persons cheque to clear before i send a £370 card on its way.. call me paranoid. I was still using it up till friday.

Im sorry but im not 'fabricating' this to make ATI look better or something :rolleyes: its the truth. I ran DetFX (my ATi card was only working from Friday remember!), wonderful drivers they were. Nice performance boost's but once again nothing changed that i could visibly see with my own eyes. Apart from the nicer 3dmark scores...

However, hand on heart, the AA is visibly better to my eyes than with my NV30. But my NV30 smokes the 9700 in 3dmark etc (with no AA/AF). :)

hows the ati remote wonder thinger...

I have been considering getting an AIW VE in order to complement my card.. my 4 yr old hauppage tv tuner is really showing its age now :)

just wanted to find out if the remote is as good as I have heard coz that is one feature I have found lacking in most other tv tuners out there... lack of a GOOD remote :)

[RobHague]

It's good, bit dodgy to control the mouse with it but if you play DVD's/TV through ur PC etc its very handy. I havent got my AIW hooked up to anything yet, i am moving house soon so i gotta sort out some new kit but im planning on getting it wired up to a bigger TV to output DVD's. Im also looking into the video capture, quite a versetile card indeed. Even with the NV35 out NVIDIA unfortunatley dont offer anything to compete with this. Personal Cinema is good, but the actual GPU is awful (Geforce4 MX 420) so it would be usless for gaming.

[digitalwanderer]

Well if you put your hand on your heart and say it's better, than who am I to doubt ya?

I'm gonna get me one of them thar 9700 Pro's, hopefully tomorrow, and see for me ownself. :)

Thanks Rob, you converted one nVidiot. ;)

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Sazar
I have been considering getting an AIW VE in order to complement my card.. my 4 yr old hauppage tv tuner is really showing its age now :)

I LOVE MY OLD HAUPPAGE TV TUNER, IT'S STILL THE BEST I'VE GOT!!!! :mad: ;)

But seriously, I've found me old haup card to be better than any other tv card I've used...and it's the only one that has stereo sound.

It's damned hard to find a good, cheap stereo tv card anymore...I got that Hauppage back in 98 and it's always served me proper.

(But I'd REALLY like to find a tv-card that has a digital cable tuner built in for under $600us... :rolleyes: )

[Sazar]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I LOVE MY OLD HAUPPAGE TV TUNER, IT'S STILL THE BEST I'VE GOT!!!! :mad: ;)

But seriously, I've found me old haup card to be better than any other tv card I've used...and it's the only one that has stereo sound.

It's damned hard to find a good, cheap stereo tv card anymore...I got that Hauppage back in 98 and it's always served me proper.

(But I'd REALLY like to find a tv-card that has a digital cable tuner built in for under $600us... :rolleyes: )

no doubt it is good.. I still like it...

but I have a serious issue with teh audo quality now considering the rest of my systema nd what I am used to hearing in games...

also I have a problem recording stuff... the quality is TERRIBLE :(

my card is probably the same gen as yours... its really old... had it at least 3 years and I bought it from the lower shelves @ bestbuy back when I was starting off learning about hardware :)

[digitalwanderer]

Sorry, just defending one of the more faithful pieces of hardware I've got. ;)

Yeah, I don't use me PC tuner to record...I got a VCR hooked up to it so I figured "why bother?" ;)

I picked mine up at a local PC show, it was a "TView98". :)

[jimmyjames123]

Im sorry but im not 'fabricating' this to make ATI look better or something its the truth. I ran DetFX (my ATi card was only working from Friday remember!), wonderful drivers they were. Nice performance boost's but once again nothing changed that i could visibly see with my own eyes. Apart from the nicer 3dmark scores

No one is accusing you of fabricating. It's just too bad the new drivers didn't do anything for you in your brief time with them. Most GeForce FX owners have reported significant increases in image quality and performance almost across the board. Certainly not everyone will notice such differences in the games they play, at the settings they like to play and I understand that. And I don't think many will argue about the AA. Enjoy!

[Sazar]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Sorry, just defending one of the more faithful pieces of hardware I've got. ;)

Yeah, I don't use me PC tuner to record...I got a VCR hooked up to it so I figured "why bother?" ;)

I picked mine up at a local PC show, it was a "TView98". :)

heh... well... I'll tell you this... I had an old 8mb ati tv tuner and it smacked the pants of my hauppage... I sold it to buy a 32mb nvidia tnt,,, good buy @ the time but boy did I miss the tv tuner... :(

the hauppage is pretty good.. I have been happy with it... BUT it is getting a little old... ie IQ is a little off from what I would expect given the other elements in my system :)

[Hanners]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I'm real curious about hearing from someone who's tried either game on some high-end cards from either side. GTA3 was probably the biggest reason I chose to hang on to me GF3 over me 8500.

I can help you with that one:

GTA 3 still runs terribly on the 9800 Pro - Well, maybe not terribly, but not well enough for me to enjoy. I admit that I only tried it at 1024x768 with 4xAA and 16xAF, but there's no way I'm going back to playing without those for anything!! It was very smooth in some places, but stuttery in others.

Vice City on the other hand runs like an absolute dream! No matter what gets thrown at it in 1024x768 with 4xAA and 16xAF, it doesn't miss a beat. It looks great, and it plays great - The way it's meant to be played (Hmm... that's a good marketing phrase, wonder if anyone else has thought of it? ;)).


Back slightly more on topic, thanks for the quick round-up Rob - I don't know anyone else whose owned both a 5800 Ultra and 9700 Pro (All-in-Wonder or otherwise), so it's interesting to hear some real-world experience from someone whose tried both cards on a day-to-day basis. That kind of experience is worth more than ten reviews. :)

[Hanners]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I LOVE MY OLD HAUPPAGE TV TUNER, IT'S STILL THE BEST I'VE GOT!!!! :mad: ;)

I have to back you up on that one - My WinTV PCI running through DScaler with all the fancy filters turned on works wonders; it looks fantastic and I can't imagine any other TV card beating it for picture quality. :)

[digitalwanderer]

Yup, the hauppauge is staying 'til I see/hear something better. The audio on the hauppauge is just so much better than any of me other ones. (Then again, that's the system that has the TurtleBeach and the Altec-Lansings too... ;) )

By the way Rob, you were right! *cough-cough* (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6508586) ;)