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View Full Version : Thoughts on the new Duel Spec option coming to WoW


DansFace
10-08-08, 11:50 AM
This is taken from wow insider
"In the midst of a mostly unrelated post about the Druid Balance tree, Ghostcrawler let slip the following: "The dual-spec feature will shine more light on talent design (more on that at Blizzcon) and we'll have a better idea of what we want to do with trees when that goes live." Now I don't know about you all, but as someone who plays a healing class for a main, I am very interested in the dual spec idea. Knowing that we'll get more information on it at Blizzcon, just a few days away, makes me a happy priest indeed.

But what could she mean by the dual-spec feature shining more light on talent design? It's a slightly mysterious statement, but my interpretation is that when everybody can have two specs and switch between them either freely or at least cheaply, the load each spec needs to carry lessens. It's OK if Holy can't solo, because you can just switch to your Shadow spec for that. It's not such a big deal if Combat isn't as strong in PvP; just swap out to Assassination for the BG weekend, and swap back in time to raid. The trees no longer have to be strong in all areas of the game. But that's just guesswork on my part; GC may well have meant something else entirely.

Either way, we'll see in Anaheim this weekend, and WoW Insider will keep you posted with live reports."


I've been playing a protection warrior for 2 months now! The idea that i'll be able to switch to fury or arms to take a break from tanking is a god send

I could find my self playing even more now

What do you guys think?!

Tr1cK
10-08-08, 12:15 PM
As a warrior, the new prot tree is what I would stick with. It has some wicked dps added in along with stuns and some of the best snare removal.

I love how this build looks and would use it if I went back to WoW.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMhzbZhZVctrgbzidIzsGo

DansFace
10-08-08, 12:21 PM
As a warrior, the new prot tree is what I would stick with. It has some wicked dps added in along with stuns and some of the best snare removal.

I love how this build looks and would use it if I went back to WoW.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMhzbZhZVctrgbzidIzsGo


Yeah I plan to use that tree to tank with.... but if I can't find a instance group. It'll be cake to switch to Arms and go hit the BG's

Without respecing and costing gold

Tr1cK
10-08-08, 12:27 PM
I haven't had the gear to really do much with Arms or Fury in PvP. I tend to do better as Prot with the stuns and silences we do have to give casters a hell of a time. I love to play with mages. Between spell reflect, improved shield bash, and concussion blow, I have a damn good chance most times.

I agree, the option for another spec will be quite welcome to healing classes as well as tanks.

Talon
10-08-08, 12:41 PM
Sounds like a great idea actually. Obviously they would need to put some sort of limitations on it but on the surface it sounds good. I haven't played WoW in many many months though.

CaptnStubing
10-08-08, 01:15 PM
Bleh... They keep ruining this game with each new patch. Why not roll a different toon? Instead they trash PVP with unbalanced classes and stupid gimmicks like this.

I am happy with War right now and am interested in WotLK but don't hold much hope for it.

Tr1cK
10-08-08, 02:06 PM
3.0 is supposed to bring in a lot more balance and make specs like Prot Warriors viable for PvP. Look at that spec I posted, specifically at the deep Prot talent 'Warbringer'.

Warbringer allows you to use Charge in any stance and while in combat. Concussion Blow will do damage based upon 3/4 of your AP. There's a tier 1 talent in Fury that gives you AP based upon how much Armor you have. Impale has moved up a notch in Arms and doesn't require Deep Wounds.

I've looked at other classes and have seen a lot of balance changes to increase the fun factor with whatever you decide to roll. Warrior is just my #1 toon.

That being said, I am very happy with Warhammer right now and look forward to playing some more of my Ironbreaker tonight.

DansFace
10-08-08, 03:35 PM
Bleh... They keep ruining this game with each new patch. Why not roll a different toon? Instead they trash PVP with unbalanced classes and stupid gimmicks like this.

I am happy with War right now and am interested in WotLK but don't hold much hope for it.

Man you're negative...
If you want to roll same class toon just to be a different spec go right on ahead.
I'd much rather focus on just one charater.

DansFace
10-08-08, 03:36 PM
3.0 is supposed to bring in a lot more balance and make specs like Prot Warriors viable for PvP. Look at that spec I posted, specifically at the deep Prot talent 'Warbringer'.

Warbringer allows you to use Charge in any stance and while in combat. Concussion Blow will do damage based upon 3/4 of your AP. There's a tier 1 talent in Fury that gives you AP based upon how much Armor you have. Impale has moved up a notch in Arms and doesn't require Deep Wounds.

I've looked at other classes and have seen a lot of balance changes to increase the fun factor with whatever you decide to roll. Warrior is just my #1 toon.

That being said, I am very happy with Warhammer right now and look forward to playing some more of my Ironbreaker tonight.


What about rage generation? I never use stuns on my war unless I have 4+ mobs pounding on me.

Would prot be able to generate enough rage in PvP?

Tr1cK
10-08-08, 03:54 PM
What about rage generation? I never use stuns on my war unless I have 4+ mobs pounding on me.

Would prot be able to generate enough rage in PvP?

I always generate a ton of rage in PvP as Prot because of the talents Shield Specialization, Focused Rage, Anger Management and just getting beat on. With WOTLK, you will be able to get all that plus Shield Spec talent gives more rage, Charge in combat is instant 10 rage and Sword & Board can proc and give you free Shield Slams.

CaptnStubing
10-08-08, 04:11 PM
Man you're negative...
If you want to roll same class toon just to be a different spec go right on ahead.
I'd much rather focus on just one charater.

I am negative because they took a game I really like and ruined it. I have played on the PTS for the next patch and it was crap.

Phyre
10-08-08, 04:12 PM
I've not played the game since March, but I've been reading stuff about the changes and all. I'm just wondering what will happen to pure classes if the dual spec happens with dps specced hybrid classes doing the same damage as pure classes?

If you can beat a boss with just a bit more dps and healing is fine, why not just have a hybrid jump out of the instance, quit the raid, and switch specs? No one will need a pure class for raids anymore.

DansFace
10-08-08, 04:19 PM
I've not played the game since March, but I've been reading stuff about the changes and all. I'm just wondering what will happen to pure classes if the dual spec happens with dps specced hybrid classes doing the same damage as pure classes?

If you can beat a boss with just a bit more dps and healing is fine, why not just have a hybrid jump out of the instance, quit the raid, and switch specs? No one will need a pure class for raids anymore.

errr I keep reading this and can't seem to get it. Pickled my brain last night..

Can you explain a bit more?

Rakeesh
10-08-08, 07:23 PM
I played on the PTR a bit, so far I really don't like the next patch. PVP battles are just too short, it seems to mostly be about who can get the first stuns/locks off wins. Wasn't blizzard aware of this issue before and that's why they created resilience? Seems resilience isn't enough anymore. I spec'ed boomkin while wearing my S4 resto gear and two shotted a full S2 warrior with two starfires. This shouldn't be possible IMO.

Phyre
10-08-08, 10:41 PM
errr I keep reading this and can't seem to get it. Pickled my brain last night..

Can you explain a bit more?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10638062486&pageNo=3&sid=2000#43

In the past, Blizzard had the stance that pure classes (rogues & mages) should do more dps because that's all they do. Now, they are saying that an equally geared & skilled shaman specced for dps and an equally geared & skilled rogue should put out the same damage. With that change and if dual specs are allowed in the future, what is the need for the pure classes?

Rakeesh
10-08-08, 11:01 PM
In the past, Blizzard had the stance that pure classes (rogues & mages) should do more dps because that's all they do. Now, they are saying that an equally geared & skilled shaman specced for dps and an equally geared & skilled rogue should put out the same damage. With that change and if dual specs are allowed in the future, what is the need for the pure classes?

No that's not what they are saying. They are saying that the hybrid classes and pure classes will have their dps gap narrowed, but the pure classes will still ultimately win in dps.

This is to prevent say, a guild having 2 moonkins, 2 mages, and 2 warlocks from always only taking one of the moonkins "just for the crit buff" and always leaving the other one out because his DPS isn't even close to that of the mages or the locks.

Since that dps gap is narrowed, there will be more reason to bring along the other boomkin because they won't be losing a lot of DPS by doing so.

This reduces the old problem of raiding guilds that put heavy class restrictions in place: e.g. "we need a few good rogues but we don't want anymore enhancement shamans because we already have one" and getting pissed off because they can't find the class that they want to stack is going to be a thing of the past. Stacking pure classes will still ultimately be best, but unlike in the past, having all hybrids will do. Now you can raid with the people you want to raid with rather than picking somebody else just because they happened to roll a class or only want to play a class that you can't use anymore of.

Tyr-Sog
10-09-08, 05:46 AM
Bliz just needs to dump classes and create 1 jack of all class. It's what it evolved in to anyways. YAWN!

fireballin
11-24-08, 02:35 AM
No that's not what they are saying. They are saying that the hybrid classes and pure classes will have their dps gap narrowed, but the pure classes will still ultimately win in dps.




They may not be saying that, but the fact of the matter is, right now, in live, if an equally geared mage,boomkin, and warlock roll into naxx, all using same buffs, the boomkin will provide the highest dps, at a level of gear that most casual players will reach.
At higher gear levels, such as naxx 25 man, mages and locks begin to pull ahead, with 5200dps/5100dps respectively, as compared to the boomkin, rounding out about 4500....but that is due to the scaling of haste,crit,and spell power to the pure dps classes that the mage and warlock are.

If blizz wants to keep everyone happy by making hybrid classes just as good as the classes they are meant to fill the role of, then what is a mage for?
(i was in naxx last night, as a Frostfiremage, rolling nearly 3k dps, and was still #2 on charts, behind a boomkin at nearly 4k><)



/sigh....
Suppose its back to being just a vending machine to show up outside raids for a table....

Rakeesh
11-24-08, 04:33 AM
They may not be saying that, but the fact of the matter is, right now, in live, if an equally geared mage,boomkin, and warlock roll into naxx, all using same buffs, the boomkin will provide the highest dps, at a level of gear that most casual players will reach.

I've already cleared most of naxx 10, and I haven't found this to be true. From what I've seen, the hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks do the most DPS, in that order (hunters being the best.) I've been doing this in a pug group where we've regularly swapped people out, so I've seen what many classes are capable of, with a wide variety of people playing these classes.

The only way a boomkin should be doing more DPS than you is on AOE intensive fights. Right now boomkin is king of AOE from what I have seen.

Ninja Prime
11-24-08, 01:30 PM
I've already cleared most of naxx 10, and I haven't found this to be true. From what I've seen, the hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks do the most DPS, in that order (hunters being the best.) I've been doing this in a pug group where we've regularly swapped people out, so I've seen what many classes are capable of, with a wide variety of people playing these classes.

The only way a boomkin should be doing more DPS than you is on AOE intensive fights. Right now boomkin is king of AOE from what I have seen.

Warlocks are on the bottom of the heap from what I've seen raiding since 3.0. Makes me a sad panda considering I've put 4 years into mine and now every spec sucks and isn't fun.

Zelda_fan
11-24-08, 01:34 PM
This is an awesome idea and should have been done a long time ago.

There is typically a spec that is best for PvP and a spec that is best for PvE. I always choose the best PvP spec, now I won't have to respec or have my DPS suck on raids.

lIqUID
11-24-08, 04:13 PM
Warlocks are on the bottom of the heap from what I've seen raiding since 3.0. Makes me a sad panda considering I've put 4 years into mine and now every spec sucks and isn't fun.

Don't worry I'm sure they will make some lock changes soon. The thing that bugs me are the lackluster 51 point talents. I'm currently playing a 51 demo spec witht he rest in affliction and metamorphosis just doesn't seem up to snuff at all.

Ninja Prime
11-25-08, 12:15 AM
Don't worry I'm sure they will make some lock changes soon. The thing that bugs me are the lackluster 51 point talents. I'm currently playing a 51 demo spec witht he rest in affliction and metamorphosis just doesn't seem up to snuff at all.

Yeah... moonkin; 15000 armor all the time, meta; 13000 armor for 30 seconds once every 3 minutes?

Why does moonkin get plate all the time and a dps increasing spec, but on a lock with a dps lowering spec, its only 18% up time? How is the lock overpowered but the moonkin isn't?

I've been leveling a DK until they do something about locks, its just not enjoyable to play one at the moment.

thor1182
11-25-08, 08:48 AM
Yeah... moonkin; 15000 armor all the time, meta; 13000 armor for 30 seconds once every 3 minutes?

Why does moonkin get plate all the time and a dps increasing spec, but on a lock with a dps lowering spec, its only 18% up time? How is the lock overpowered but the moonkin isn't?

I've been leveling a DK until they do something about locks, its just not enjoyable to play one at the moment.

locks HAVE been OP for a good part of the game's history is different aspects. They might be a bit behind now, from what I have heard they catch back up when the gear starts to get there. They started behind in BC, then started killing the charts... where Moonkins won't scale as well doing down the stretch.


Also realize you have a soul shatter to lower your agro... a Moonkin has to sit there and take it, hence the armor.

Rakeesh
11-25-08, 11:41 AM
Yeah... moonkin; 15000 armor all the time, meta; 13000 armor for 30 seconds once every 3 minutes?

Why does moonkin get plate all the time and a dps increasing spec, but on a lock with a dps lowering spec, its only 18% up time? How is the lock overpowered but the moonkin isn't?

Trust me your survivability as a warlock is better overall than that of a boomkin. It used to not be so, but ever since casters do such wicked burst DPS now, boomkins are actually pretty squishy in PVP compared to warlocks. Between your soul link and your ability to drain tank - there isn't really a comparison. Not to mention that if you have a healer with you, you basically have infinite mana, whereas a boomkin doesn't.

I've been leveling a DK until they do something about locks, its just not enjoyable to play one at the moment.

PVE wise I've seen locks doing pretty well. I don't really know about PVP yet. I will say, though, that death knights and paladins are currently *the* pvp classes at the moment. Ironic considering how previously paladins were the worst next to hunters.