nVidia in Playstation3?!?

[Slappi]

Look at this ....

www.briefing.com/scripts/BriefingSearch.asp?Site=ID5user&bDailySearch=T&TickerSymbol=nvda


I wonder..


Also look at this ...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1216551.stm

and this ...

biz.yahoo.com/bw/030326/265201_1.html



hmmmmm...

[GlowStick]

I think its very specultive at this point : O

[SurfMonkey]

It could all just be a weird coincidence ;)

[ChrisRay]

Well Sony is definately gaurenteed money. It'd be a great manuever on Nvidias part, It'd be more profitable than the Xbox most likely..

Tho the Xbox is finally starting to do well here

[suburbanguy]

it's probably true. Nvidia will be making, or suppling Sony with IP for, the rasterizering part of Graphics Synthesizer 3. now called Visualizer, a Cell based graphics processor with half its APUs removed, replaced with pixel pipelines and caches. Nvidia will likely be doing either all of, or some of, the rasterizing half of GS3/Visualizer.

[Ninja Prime]

I doubt it. Everything I've heard about the PS3 leads me to believe it's gonna rely on some wack software mode for rendering.

[suburbanguy]

perhaps you are not understanding Cell and the PS3. it will have a GPU or graphics processor of some kind. even if it is a simple one like the GS in PS2. It will have some hardwared functions. but it will also be programmable if its based on Cell tech.


some people and even websites think that PS3 will have one main chip, the Cell, and that will do everything including graphics. that couldn't be further from the truth.

It's not a question of PS3 having a graphics processor or not, its just a question of what functions will be hardwired into it and if Sony is getting any outside assistance (nVidia) or not.

[Spiritwalker]

IIRC the cell tech has been pushed back 2 years to 2007. I think that is a little late for the PS3 and may become the basis for the PS4. So this may have some legitimacy. Sony will be needing something that they dont have ATM.

On a side note, Nintendo intends to have their new product out on the shelf before both MS and Sony.

[GlowStick]

this cell tech sounds like alot of bs to me.

its just hype they are trying to pull to make their product sound futuristic.

I am also sure people will start saying "dude the ps3 is 10x times the power of a 10ghz cpu"

[R.Carter]

Most likely Sony could be trying to buy the rights to use some of Nvidia's (3Dfx) patents.

Remember that Sony, Toshiba and IBM are all collaberating on this processor project.

The idea behind CELL is an interesting one. Presumably it would allow the unused processing power of other CELL enabled devices to be used by your console for AI or other processing tasks.

If you think of the distributed computing projects that exist not and then think of how many PS/2 have been sold (20 million?) imagine 20 million computers forming one distributed computing network!

Now, each CELL can have more than one processor in it and they can be combined as well. One rumour has it that the PS/3 CELL will be based off of a Power PC processor that running at 4GHz connected to a number (8) APUs that have 128K of local memory. The conservative estimates are that this can turn out about 256 GFlops. Some claim 1 TFlop!

Toshiba and Sony have also licensed the "Yellowstone" and "Redstone" Rambus interface that runs at 3.2GHz data rates. So presumably these will be used in the PS/3.

They are hoping to add CELL processors to all kinds of devices. So say your television had a CELL processor in it, your console could use that to help with graphics processing. If you audio system has a CELL then it could be used to help with outputting sound.

It's a very interesting concept but I'm not too sure how well it's going to turn out though. Depends on how much its going to cost.

According to this article here

It's worth $1.6bn to Sony and it will power PS3 and more (http://www.silicon.com/news/500007/1/3829.html)

the CELL will be made using 65 nanometer technology (most likely from IBM) allowing for embedded memory on the majority of the main processing components.

Sony expected to use IBM architecture in PlayStation 3 (http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020322S0068)

IBM, Sony, Toshiba team on processor architecture for broadband (http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20010313S0113)

Sony's Dream Team (http://www.designchain.com/coverstory.asp?issue=spring03)

If you do some digging you'll be able to find the various patents related to CELL. One is U.S. Patent Application 20020138637 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220020138637%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20020138637&RS=DN/20020138637).

[GlowStick]

That is just STUPID!!

First they say, we want to put cell processors in everything, your tv etc.

When you buy a ps3, you can get more power from your neighbors ps3 and his TV also.

BTW, to support this we have Ultra high bandwith bus's but somehow your tv and ps3 will be magicly connected with a super fast bus.

If they do use a 'cell' approach this is how it will be.

They will have a few cheep processors that can do eather math or graphics. so it will be up to the programmer to decide how much of the processing power is doing math or graphcis......

so if they have 10 cells, they could make a game useing 6 cells on graphcis and 4 on the rest of it and have a good looking game dumb ai, no physics.

then they could turn around and use 7 cells on the ai/physics engine and 3 on the graphcis and have great ati and ok graphics.

but i get the feeling its all just hype and it will be set up like the ps2 but more powerfull.

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by GlowStick
BTW, to support this we have Ultra high bandwith bus's but somehow your tv and ps3 will be magicly connected with a super fast bus.


Yes, if the data is needed RIGHT AWAY then you will need a low latency high bandwith connection. But the question is do you really need it right now and how much data is it. It's up to the programmer and the OS to write their applications so that it can be easily distributed.

Of course, you can use a firewire or fiber optic connections for your local connections to devices like your TV or audio system that are usually close to your console anyways. The first generation PS/2 have an i.Link port so it's not out of the question. Sony usually uses i.Link on almost everything and so it should be rather easy to add the needed connections to new devices that have a CELL processor in them.

You also have 100Mbps Ethernet connection for home devices like your desktop or notebooks.

Remember they are talking 2006/7 or so for the CELL to arrive so by then everyone will have fiber running to their homes.

;)

[StealthHawk]

Sounds too complicated to program for....

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by R.Carter
Yes, if the data is needed RIGHT AWAY then you will need a low latency high bandwith connection. But the question is do you really need it right now and how much data is it. It's up to the programmer and the OS to write their applications so that it can be easily distributed.

Of course, you can use a firewire or fiber optic connections for your local connections to devices like your TV or audio system that are usually close to your console anyways. The first generation PS/2 have an i.Link port so it's not out of the question. Sony usually uses i.Link on almost everything and so it should be rather easy to add the needed connections to new devices that have a CELL processor in them.

You also have 100Mbps Ethernet connection for home devices like your desktop or notebooks.

Remember they are talking 2006/7 or so for the CELL to arrive so by then everyone will have fiber running to their homes.

;)

I dont think you understand how slow 100mbits is. in 2007 no one will have fiber running though their homes, sorry. But that is still absurd, so will the requriements for a ps3 game say "you need a sony ps3 with 2 camquarters, and 2 sony tvs networked to play this game"

that is just stupid, they are just makeing and useing buzz terms to make people think they have something that is not there. Also confuse nieve people.

This is how the ps3 will run.

The CPU will be faster than the ps2, there is a possibility of haveing 2 SLOWer cpu's SMP (computers have that too) for consoles it dosnet matter

The video chip will be faster, there can be 2 video chips ala Sega Saturn, also like the Voodoo3/4/5 series, and guess who holdes that patent *cough*Nvidia*cough*

There will be a Hard Drive probly 40 to 60 gigs because they are cheep

There will be more RAM and more VIDEO RAM.

again, havieng 2 processors or 2 gpu's is NOTHING new, PC's have been doing it for ages, even consoles have been doing it for ages.

So to sum it up ps3 is a ps2 but bigger better faster.

[suburbanguy]

R.Carter - what you are describing with the Power PC processor and 8 APUs is called a PE or Processing Element. the PS3's CPU, what is commenly called 'CELL'/Emotion Engine3 and now, the Broadband Engine, is going to be made from 4-8 of these PEs. thus MANY processors. at least 4 PPC CPUs and 32 APUs. or 8 PPC CPUs and 64 APUs. that is where the reported (right or wrong) 72 processors comes from.


if that sounds like BS to ppl, fine. it's only what is being reported by many tech websites. nobody's believed EE was for real either.

the PS3's GPU (GS3 or Visualizer) is going to be based on similar concept, it also will have some PPC CPUs (simpler ones) and APUs.
probably 4 simple PPC CPUs with 4 APUs each (16 APUs) - on the front end, for T&L. the rasterizing part will have Pixel Engines. Nvidia would be doing that part, or part of that part, if anything.

[StealthHawk]

Correct me if I'm, wrong, but PS2 has hardly lived up to the hype that was being made about it IMO.

[suburbanguy]

You are correct about PS2 not living up to the hype built around it. what was that hype though?

IIRC, it was a couple of things


1. the media and gaming press talking about PS2 doing Toy Story graphics

2. Sony itself hyping PS2 has capable of doing DVD movie quality graphics (even more outrageous than TS graphics)

3. Sony hype has far back as 1998 saying how they were going to bring out a machine that would generate visuals that do not even look like computer graphics, that would look totally real.


however the only thing that matters to those of us in reality is how did PS2 live up to the technical demos that were shown in March 1999 when PS2 technology was unvieled? pretty well, IMHO. the realtime demos with the exception of the FF8 dance scene were all equaled or surpassed by PS2 games. Tekken Tag and Tekken 4 beat the Tekken demo. GT3 and GT4 beat the GT2000 demo. etc.


that said, I am no fan of PS2 or Sony, or their misleading BS figures on PSX & PS2 performance, their piss poor customer service record or their workmanship record, as PSX and PS2 both breakdown horridly.


there are alot of things that are 'broken' with PS2's guts also. the EE not having enough cache for itself and the VUs. the narrow bus between EE and GS. the GS having only 4 MB eDRAM. only 32 MB main memory. the PS2 should have had 128 MB main mem, 32 MB of GS graphics memory off-die, and 4 MB on-die with texture compression and builtin AA that doesnt eat up fillrate. etc. even then PS2 would not be capable of movie graphics or even TS graphics.


PS3 will have to be alot better. assuming it is better, there will be people out there on the internet who will be around to dispell the hype of PS3 for the internet crowd.

what hype the general mainstream gets caught up in, is something else though.

[nVidi0t]

Gaystation 2 was way overhyped IMO. On top of that, It's ending up like the PS1 where they started releasing games at low resolutions and low detail, which are way too much for the hardware specs and run at about 20fps. (Vice City being the primary example).

I'm sure it will happen with the PS3 aswell, and I'm sure M$ are just waiting on Sony to release another X-Box, which will reduce the wow factor of the PS3 when it's released.

[R.Carter]

Some people are already using PS/2 for Scientific Computing (http://arrakis.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ps2/) and have even connected them into a 65 node cluster.

And some have installed Grid software (http://www.sve.man.ac.uk/Research/AtoZ/Playstation2) on a PS/2.

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by GlowStick
in 2007 no one will have fiber running though their homes, sorry. But that is still absurd
It's interesting to note that Baby Bells to twist fiber together (http://news.com.com/2100-1037_3-1011333.html), which seems to indicate that three of the baby bells are going to join together to deliver Fiber-to-the-Premesis (FTTP).

xDSL just can't compete with cable on speed, so the only thing they can do is go to fiber. Fiber can also go longer distances than xDSL technologies.

[MrNasty]

Good news people !

If we get nvidia hardware in PS3 then we could see some easy quick high quality to PC conversions.

Well probably not high quality but it seems like it might make things easyer for developers.


Would of been nice if it was ATi in PS3 but you can't have it all :\


Still speculation tho...

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by MrNasty
Good news people !

If we get nvidia hardware in PS3 then we could see some easy quick high quality to PC conversions.

Well probably not high quality but it seems like it might make things easyer for developers.


Would of been nice if it was ATi in PS3 but you can't have it all :\


Still speculation tho...

Isn't that what people said about Xbox and NV2A :wtf:

There haven't been that many conversions.

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by MrNasty
If we get nvidia hardware in PS3 then we could see some easy quick high quality to PC conversions.


Why?

I seriously doubt that Sony would use a Nvidia or ATI chip since Sony Corp's Executive Deputy President Ken Kutaragi is quoted as saying

"We will continue to procure from outside sources commodity chips, de facto standard LSIs and chips used in small quantities, but we will try to produce within the Sony group as much as possible chips with which we plan to differentiate the architecture itself and LSIs needed in large quantities," he said.

I posted the link to the article in this thread (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12653).

[Chobits_Misato]

there are alot of things that are 'broken' with PS2's guts also. the EE not having enough cache for itself and the VUs. the narrow bus between EE and GS. the GS having only 4 MB eDRAM. only 32 MB main memory. the PS2 should have had 128 MB main mem, 32 MB of GS graphics memory off-die, and 4 MB on-die with texture compression and builtin AA that doesnt eat up fillrate. etc. even then PS2 would not be capable of movie graphics or even TS graphics.


You are saying you want a machine with 128 megs of ram, a 32 meg videocard, built in ANTI ALIASING and more for 299$ in the year 2000!

Hello!!! You on drugs or something?

I don't see why people hate the PS2. If you have to go bash it, then don't talk about it because bashing and flaming shows your own idiocy.

[R.Carter]

Hey! The PlayStation 3 logo is shown in the article Sony vindt nieuws partner en toont PS3 logo (http://www.dgs-online.nl/nieuws/?id=10806).