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Lyme
10-20-08, 09:17 PM
Arstechnica take on the changes http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081020-big-brother-is-watching-and-listening-sonys-new-ps3-tos.html

The official agreement http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

Sony highlighted all the good bits in red, but here are a few good snippits.

SCEA reserves the right to monitor and record any online activity and communication throughout PSN and you give SCEA your express consent to monitor and record your activities. SCEA reserves the right to remove any content and communication from PSN at SCEA's sole discretion without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your communications, the time and location of your activities, your Online ID and IP address and other related information may be used by us to enforce this Agreement or protect the interests of SCEA, its users, or licensors. Such information may be disclosed to the appropriate authorities or agencies. Any other use is subject to the terms of the applicable Privacy Policy. SCEA has no liability for any violation of this Agreement by you or by any other player.


You bear all risk of loss for completing the download of any content and for any loss of content you have downloaded, including any loss due to a file corruption or hard drive crash.You are solely responsible for the storage and safekeeping of your content. SCEA is not responsible for providing you with replacement copies for any reason.

You authorize and license SCEA a royalty free and perpetual right to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your User Material for any reason without any restrictions or payments to you or any third parties. You further agree that SCEA may sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates and subsidiaries. You hereby waive all claims, including any moral rights, against SCEA, its affiliates and subsidiaries for SCEA or any other third party's use of User Material to the extent permitted by applicable law

SCEA assumes no liability for any inability to purchase access to or use any content.

NarcissistZero
10-21-08, 02:04 AM
I'm more concerned about content dissapearing from people's downloaded list... like Mortal Kombat 2. I have to worry about making backups of PSN games now, which is absurd while the system is still in its prime.

Mr. Hunt
10-21-08, 02:19 AM
I'm more concerned about content dissapearing from people's downloaded list... like Mortal Kombat 2. I have to worry about making backups of PSN games now, which is absurd while the system is still in its prime.

Agree... I heard MKII was taken down and was amazed... just seems so odd to take it off the download list... luckily I still have mine, but if I lose it I will be pissed.

|MaguS|
10-21-08, 05:59 AM
Arstechnica take on the changes http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081020-big-brother-is-watching-and-listening-sonys-new-ps3-tos.html

The official agreement http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

Sony highlighted all the good bits in red, but here are a few good snippits.

Sounds for the most part reasonable. They are not being held accoutable if network outages or curropt downloads (and why should they, no other service in the world gaurentees 100% service without interuptions. They also have the right to know and track what you are doing on their service, Im sure they don't want anyone surfing child porn from the PS3 browser.

The use of content is a little tricky but also agreeable since no game states you own any of the content. They are just making sure you don't try to sell their IP, much like how WoW and EQ have in their EULA that you don't own any items or characters in the games.

Seriously, anyone offended by these has never read an EULA before... Read one from your old PSX or SNES carts...

nekrosoft13
10-21-08, 07:07 AM
You authorize and license SCEA a royalty free and perpetual right to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your User Material for any reason without any restrictions or payments to you or any third parties. You further agree that SCEA may sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates and subsidiaries. You hereby waive all claims, including any moral rights, against SCEA, its affiliates and subsidiaries for SCEA or any other third party's use of User Material to the extent permitted by applicable law

nice way for them to steal ideas

|MaguS|
10-21-08, 07:14 AM
nice way for them to steal ideas

Well this only counts for LBP since its the only game that allows you to create something on the PSN... and guess what Sony already owns everything regarding that game.

LurkerLito
10-21-08, 09:35 AM
Well this only counts for LBP since its the only game that allows you to create something on the PSN... and guess what Sony already owns everything regarding that game.

While this is true that at the moment it will only apply to LBP, but this will also apply to any content made on any game in the future so I think it's an extremely bad thing.

Just to let you know, Sony does NOT own everything regarding LBP. Sony or MM owns all assets used in the game like the artwork, the game itself, the Levels included, and the level editor, but the level design you create is copyrighted by you the instant you make it as long as it was made from scratch. This clause basically takes away your ownership to any level you design and makes it Sony's property as long as you put it on PSN. So assume for a minute that you make a LBP level and want to charge money for it like Sony says they might let people do. If at any time Sony feels they don't want to give you your cut of the money for the level, they can just not pay you without any reason and still use your content freely. Now I am sure this clause was not put in there for that particular reason, but it is just too broad and gives the content creator no rights. This might be one of those things that are not too terrible for a game like LBP, but when games like Guitar Hero start to give people the ability to put their own written music into the game, this will be a HUGE issue. Sony can basically steal any music you write that you put into Guitar Hero for say promotion of your small indie band and sell it without you ever seeing a penny. And since the line "You authorize and license SCEA a royalty free and perpetual right to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your User Material for any reason without any restrictions or payments to you or any third parties." They could technically relicense it without your permission to Sony Music, who could then sell it as a single on iTunes without you getting any compensation.

|MaguS|
10-21-08, 09:53 AM
While this is true that at the moment it will only apply to LBP, but this will also apply to any content made on any game in the future so I think it's an extremely bad thing.

Just to let you know, Sony does NOT own everything regarding LBP. Sony or MM owns all assets used in the game like the artwork, the game itself, the Levels included, and the level editor, but the level design you create is copyrighted by you the instant you make it as long as it was made from scratch.

No, You do not own anything. You cannot use someone elses work to create your own and then claim it for yourself. Again, Just like how in a MMO the player does not own the Gold he earns within the game nor the character he developers, A player does not own the content of a game that offers level creation.

In comparison to Valves EULA...

B. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.
NEITHER VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, NOR THEIR AFFILIATES SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE STEAM SOFTWARE INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL VALVE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH STEAM, STEAM SOFTWARE, MERCHANDISE THAT YOU ACQUIRE VIA STEAM, ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, OR THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE MERCHANDISE OR ANY INFORMATION, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, OR BREACH OF VALVE'S WARRANTY AND EVEN IF VALVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THESE LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS REGARDING DAMAGES APPLY EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS.


And same goes for content you create, you can distribute your SDK work from the Source Engine but unless you sign a commercial agreement and pay for the development software you cannot sell any of your mods.

Your Subscription(s) may contain access to the Valve software development kit (the "SDK") for the computer game engine used in Half-Life 2 and other compatible Valve products (the "Source Engine"). You may use, reproduce and modify the SDK on a non-commercial basis solely to develop a modified game (a "Mod") for Half-Life 2 or other Valve products compatible with and using the Source Engine. You may reproduce and distribute the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life 2 or other compatible Valve products, provided that the Mod is made publicly available and distributed without charge on a non-commercial basis

Epic

Your Mods must be distributed solely for free, period. Neither you, nor any other person or party, may sell them to anyone, commercially exploit them in any way, or charge anyone for receiving or using them without prior written consent from Epic Games Inc. You may, exchange them at no charge among other end-users and distribute them to others over the Internet, on magazine cover disks, or otherwise for free.

LurkerLito
10-21-08, 11:45 AM
No, You do not own anything. You cannot use someone elses work to create your own and then claim it for yourself. Again, Just like how in a MMO the player does not own the Gold he earns within the game nor the character he developers, A player does not own the content of a game that offers level creation.

In comparison to Valves EULA...



And same goes for content you create, you can distribute your SDK work from the Source Engine but unless you sign a commercial agreement and pay for the development software you cannot sell any of your mods.



Epic

Sorry but you are wrong. If you write a full TC mod with your own original story line, using assets from the game and it's level editor, the Story line, and the level design and any new textures or music you created for the new TC mod of the game is your copyrighted work. The SDK, game engine, assets used from the original game, are NOT yours, so you wouldn't be able to sell the work unless you got some commercial license to use those assets. This is basically how all applications work. Under your interpretation the Novel you were writing in MS Word is owned by MS. This is nothing like gold being sold in a MMO, that gold was not created by the user it was an in game asset given to you in by the game.

All those EULA excerpts you quoted are the same in that they do not claim ownership or complete distribution rights of the mod you created. All they state is the mod you create must be free or you cannot use their copyrighted assets (ie the SDK, textures, models etc... from their work). Sony's on the other hand does exactly that. It claims they can redistribute your intellectual property, ie if you wrote a custom music track or added your own textures etc. They also claim they can modify it and resell it without paying you any royalties. That is wrong. I can understand what Sony wants to say, they just want to make sure you can't sue them for distributing your level you let them. But the way it is worded removes many rights that you as a content creator hold.

Lyme
10-21-08, 09:29 PM
In comparison, Microsoft's ToS (may be different in other locals) http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/live/legal/

You may be able to submit, post, transmit and share, with us or other users, images, or other materials for use in connection with the Service (each, a "submission"). We do not claim ownership of these submissions. However, by posting or otherwise providing your submission, you are granting to the public permission to use, copy, distribute, display, perform and modify your submission, each for personal and noncommercial use, and each in connection with the Service, and to publish your name, gamertag, or other information you supply in connection with the submission. You also give the public permission to grant this permission to other persons. If the submission is a photograph or other digital image, you also expressly waive any and all rights of privacy and publicity with respect to the image. This section only applies for legally permissible and authorized content, and to the extent that use and publishing of legal content does not breach the law. We will not pay you for your submission. We may refuse to transfer, or we may remove your submission at any time. For each submission, you must have all rights necessary for you to grant the permissions in this section.
You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features of the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so. You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others. Some games may utilize game managers and hosts. Game managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.
We do not routinely monitor your use of the messaging features of the Service. However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your messages and may disclose information about you, including contents of messages, if we deem it necessary to: (1) conform to legal requirements or respond to legal process, (2) ensure your compliance with this contract, or (3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its employees, its customers or the public.

Upon payment of the required fees, we shall grant you, a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license, subject to the terms of this contract, to view and privately display in your residence, for non-commercial purposes, solely on an Xbox 360 console, any Retained Rights Content you obtain via the Service only for and during your authorized use of the Service. Once a license to an item of Retained Rights Content is obtained, a copy of such Retained Rights Content will be saved to your Xbox 360 console. You shall not be permitted to copy or move the Retained Rights Content from its originally stored location. Although you are not permitted to copy or move the Retained Rights Content from its originally stored location, you will be permitted to download any previously obtained Retained Rights Content from the Service to another Xbox 360 console (a "Roaming Xbox 360 console"), for no additional cost