View Full Version : Render errors with FC2 Hotfix
Read all from the link under ......
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1359453
Originally Posted by Kyle_Bennett
The fact of the matter is that AMD had had little if any early looks at this game since it is TWIMTBP. NVIDIA GPUs SHOULD WORK FLAWLESSLY. In this matter I simply give AMD a bit more room for getting it right. This however is no Quake/Quack.
Got word from AMD while I was typing this....."supposed to have an update to the hotfix tomorrow." We will see.
CATALYST MAKER ATI Driver Gawd, 4.3 Years
Kyle is correct.
The "other" guys brought it to our attention via websites over the weekend so we had an engineer come in to debug. He found a bug in his code, got a fix together for us, and now we are getting it packed and prepared for a hotfix update. 12 business hour turnaround!
Plan on going live today or tomorrow.
Thanks for the thorough testing guys.
LordJuanlo
10-27-08, 06:50 PM
Oh well, I hope the hotfix for the hotfix will make the game render properly without affecting speed, and case closed
Xion X2
10-27-08, 10:28 PM
Are you saying ATi doesn't test their patches? If so, I guess that's a bigger problem than what I noted.
Yes, because Nvidia's drivers are always perfect.. never a single rendering error in anything.
Oops, look what I found after a 10-second google.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=42442
]I´m getting some heavy graphics corruption in Gene Troopers with polygons flying all around the screen in levels with foliage.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4352/untitled3rv3.jpg
i get the same problem.
i have 8600 and if u have the problem fixed tell me plz.
8800 GT here with the same problem,using Forceware 175.80.
I think we lost this battle guys .
(rofl2)
Anyhow, ATI responded, rendering bug (happens all the time across both vendors, especially with games only one week old), case closed, new hotfix will be released. Guess the conspiracy can be put to rest.
Tho Jo Smale
10-28-08, 09:19 AM
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6446/41ct1rb65vlsl500aa240cm5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
ahhhh run from black helicopters.....issuing out buggy drivers to boost ATI performance.....run away.....
Blacklash
10-28-08, 06:07 PM
Yep Kyle did indeed say nVidia "fed" this to him-
"We were fed this by NVIDIA last week. Bug on some rocks? Sure. Impact to gameplay? Nope..."
Source:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033226188&postcount=6
Yep Kyle did indeed say nVidia "fed" this to him-
"We were fed this by NVIDIA last week. Bug on some rocks? Sure. Impact to gameplay? Nope..."
Source:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033226188&postcount=6
The problem is that it's not just rocks, it's anything on the ground:
http://www.alienbabeltech.com/?p=995
It's trash on the ground as well.
Other people have posted they've seen it with tires, bodies, and weapons on the ground.
I've seen it with train tracks.
A person has to be fooling themself if they don't think missing a big chunk of the scenery changes the game- the days of walking through stone hallways are thankfully behind us.
Xion X2
10-28-08, 10:03 PM
The problem is that it's not just rocks, it's anything on the ground:
http://www.alienbabeltech.com/?p=995
It's trash on the ground as well.
Other people have posted they've seen it with tires, bodies, and weapons on the ground.
I've seen it with train tracks.
That makes sense, then. It's probably all related to the same issue. But that hardly means it was done intentionally by ATI to boost performance.
That grand leap in logic is unjustifiable. That is FUD. You have no solid proof that this was done for that purpose, nor can you look to other games to paint this picture. Far Cry 2 is a "far cry" from Crysis when it comes to graphics, as well as Clear Sky--probably the two best looking games out on the market at the moment, and both play faster on ATI hardware. And both use the parallax mapping that you're trying to say ATI needed to hack a driver for because it can't run it well enough.
And look at those rocks in your pictures. I think a 12 year-old w/ a copy of Photoshop could do as well. You can count the sides of them on one hand. I'm sure that and your piles of trash would really slow down a card that has shader computation ability of at least 1.2 Terraflops.
That makes sense, then. It's probably all related to the same issue. But that hardly means it was done intentionally by ATI to boost performance.
That grand leap in logic is unjustifiable. That is FUD. You have no solid proof that this was done for that purpose, nor can you look to other games to paint this picture. Far Cry 2 is a "far cry" from Crysis when it comes to graphics, as well as Clear Sky--probably the two best looking games out on the market at the moment, and both play faster on ATI hardware. And both use the parallax mapping that you're trying to say ATI needed to hack a driver for because it can't run it well enough.
And look at those rocks in your pictures. I think a 12 year-old w/ a copy of Photoshop could do as well. You can count the sides of them on one hand. I'm sure that and your piles of trash would really slow down a card that has shader computation ability of at least 1.2 Terraflops.
FUD or over aggressive optomizations?
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,665049/News/New_Catalyst_drivers_embezzle_graphical_details/
Blacklash
10-28-08, 11:31 PM
From what I've seen at the site you linked it looks like the "rocks" and the "trash" are more "below" the ground with the hotfix drivers. It will be interesting to see what the next drivers bring. I feel it's a simple bug and new facts might change my opinion. AMD explicitly warn their hotfix drivers are "as is".
The problem is that it's not just rocks, it's anything on the ground:
http://www.alienbabeltech.com/?p=995
It's trash on the ground as well.
Other people have posted they've seen it with tires, bodies, and weapons on the ground.
I've seen it with train tracks.
A person has to be fooling themself if they don't think missing a big chunk of the scenery changes the game- the days of walking through stone hallways are thankfully behind us.
From what I've seen at the site you linked it looks like the "rocks" and the "trash" are more "below" the ground with the hotfix drivers. It will be interesting to see what the next drivers bring. I feel it's a simple bug and new facts might change my opinion. AMD explicitly warn their hotfix drivers are "as is".
I agree, and as such, can give them the benefit of the doubt on this issue.
Blacklash
10-28-08, 11:53 PM
I agree, and as such, can give them the benefit of the doubt on this issue.
Have you tried discussing this on B3D? I would think they could give a solid in-depth technical opinion on it.
Again, my advice to people is when you encounter a bug in a game that may be driver related is to first report it to ATi or nVidia, then discuss it on various hardware forums if you so desire.
For ATi that's create an account that then use the "My Support" tab in the below link-
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894
For nVidia Vista drivers try below-
https://surveys.nvidia.com/index.jsp?pi=7498eac864dc1950c8f09e040b4a437a
I've done both many times.
Xion X2
10-29-08, 12:08 AM
FUD or over aggressive optomizations?
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,665049/News/New_Catalyst_drivers_embezzle_graphical_details/
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6749/microtl3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6397/strawswr7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Heinz68
10-29-08, 12:19 AM
I think error8 at AnanTech forum (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2241129&FTVAR_STKEYWORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=4&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear) described it the best. +1
There is only one conclusion that can be taken out of this thread, or at least this is what nRollo wanted to point out: ATI sucks and Nvidia rulez. Don't you ever buy an ATI card from now on, because there are some "rock problems" in FarCry 2. Just buy an Nvidia card and that's it.
Really,now, if this thread was started by an unbiased person, it would have more credibility, but coming from an Nvidia payed employee, it just looks more like "let's sabotage the competition somehow".
FlashFreeze
10-29-08, 03:34 AM
Wow! seriously. Good thing this issue came up so that people showed their true colors.
Why all of a sudden all the so-claimed unbiased people went on the defensive? Yes it is an effing annoying issue to have less scenery and rendering fewer details in FC2 on latest CAT drivers.
Yes I do look for these kinda details in games I havent bought a 4870X2 to turn a blind eye on missing details, so the argument that it's not a game breaking issue is laughable at best. Reason I went with 4870X2 was the ability to run 12CFAA in AoC cuz 4X was not enough for me now I find that AAA is borked somehow in AoC.
When you buy a product from a company that doesnt mean you automatically have to defend them no matter what comes up. Just chalk it up that ATi screwed with 8.10 and stop hurting your supposedly unbiased forum poster image on the forums. I dont give a rats by whom this info was first posted on the net as long as it's true.
Backlash reporting to ATi doesnt mean they will jump on it asap and fix it or even consider fixing it. They have a policy mentioned by spyre many times on several occasions that if not enough people complain about a certain issue they wont fix it so just one or a handful of people complaining about an issue wont trigger a fix from CAT team.
Xion X2
10-29-08, 07:48 AM
Yes I do look for these kinda details in games I havent bought a 4870X2 to turn a blind eye on missing details, so the argument that it's not a game breaking issue is laughable at best. Reason I went with 4870X2 was the ability to run 12CFAA in AoC cuz 4X was not enough for me now I find that AAA is borked somehow in AoC.
AAA works just fine in AoC for me, so I'm not sure where your problem lies.
When you buy a product from a company that doesnt mean you automatically have to defend them no matter what comes up.
Come on, that's not what most are doing here.
Few on this thread are saying this issue doesn't exist. Where myself and a few others seem to have an issue is with Rollo claiming this is all due to some conspiracy by ATI to improve performance instead of a common rendering error that pops up all the time between both vendors in drivers that have bugs in them.
Do I condone bad drivers? No, of course not, and I don't turn a "blind" eye to them by any means. But I also don't jump to conclusions, whether it be ATI or Nvidia, and say that it was intentional to increase performance.
There's a distinction to be made there.
Heinz68
10-29-08, 01:19 PM
Looks like the Rollo (NVIDIA fed) missing rocks performance optimization theory just went down the drain.
Updated Hotfix driver (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=38664) for FC2 and Stalker Clear Sky (thanks to JaxMacFL)
[HardEnthusiast] FarCry 2 Review (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU3MSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==) (link thanks to Mojoe)
Looks like the Hotfix driver needed to GET the missing rocks to fly. :)
Blacklash
10-29-08, 05:59 PM
54FPS min frames for the X2 @ 1920x DX10 all high 4xAA|16xAF with the new HF drivers. I like it :)
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU3MSw0LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
Mentioned issues seem to be resolved.
Xion X2
10-29-08, 07:19 PM
XionX2:
The truth is out there
Indeed, as we've just seen it.
Time to haul all the FUD out of the thread.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3910/fudworkergs9.jpg
Ninja Prime
10-29-08, 11:06 PM
Quite ironic that the supposed "cheat optimizations!!!11oneone" were actually slowing frames down compared to the new fixed version. Keep up the good work Nvidia super secret FUD squad, you helped ATI quite a bit! :rofl
LordJuanlo
10-30-08, 05:35 AM
I hope now the fud-spreaders will STFU and think twice next time before launching cheat accusations. Those times won't repeat again, community is very smart and no one wants to be caught cheating with another quack.exe fiasco
Xion X2
10-30-08, 08:35 AM
It's amazing that Nvidia even allows individuals like this to be associated with them. It really portrays a negative image of the company to many.
I hope now the fud-spreaders will STFU and think twice next time before launching cheat accusations. Those times won't repeat again, community is very smart and no one wants to be caught cheating with another quack.exe fiasco
No FUD has been posted here.
FACT: The 8.10 Hotfix degraded image quality by removing items on the ground from the picture.
FACT: Using this driver resulted in higher performance.
None of us will ever know if this was intentional, or a bug. If it was a bug, it's pretty sad such glaring differences in IQ that can be seen anywhere there are things on the ground got by QA.
This could be another "Quack" situation, that was also a beta driver released to reviewers.
http://en.expreview.com/2008/10/29/catalyst-810-hotfix-kidnapped-stones-in-far-cry-2.html
Like I said, lower IQ and higher performance. No one here can say for certain this was a bug or attempt at cheating, and it's fairly unlikely ATi is going to release a statement: "Curses! NVIDIA caught us!".
It's amazing that Nvidia even allows individuals like this to be associated with them. It really portrays a negative image of the company to many.
It's because I'm such a nice guy Xion. :)
LordJuanlo
10-30-08, 09:13 AM
None of us will ever know if this was intentional, or a bug
FACT: The new hotfix does not degradate image quality, it does not remove anything
FACT: Using this driver improves performance
If they have released a second hotfix that fixes the degraded image quality, and still improves speed over previous official Catalyst, it looks very clear to me that it was non intentional, because they didn't need it to improve performance.
Can't believe you still have doubts about it being intentional or not.
And the news are spreading: Desperate nVidia accuses ATI of cheating (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/30/desperate-nvidia-accuses-ati).
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