Render errors with FC2 Hotfix

[Rollo]

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2044115

Apparently the speed increases are coming at the expense of accuracy. I tested this with a HD4850 and Cat 8.9 and Cat 8.10 FC2 Hotfix.

[K007]

I thought the hotfix was for only Xfire setups..and that single card users should avoid it..

[DeusGear]

I thought the hotfix was for only Xfire setups..and that single card users should avoid it..
This.

[Ninja Prime]

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2044115

Apparently the speed increases are coming at the expense of accuracy. I tested this with a HD4850 and Cat 8.9 and Cat 8.10 FC2 Hotfix.

Go go super fanboy FUD squad!

[Rollo]

I thought the hotfix was for only Xfire setups..and that single card users should avoid it..

Since when are drivers "Crossfire Specific" and why would AFR drivers render less detail? AFR renders every other frame, not difference pieces of the scene.

I've got a couple things to do now, I'll post more screens later. I think there are optomizations in the 8.10 hotfix drivers that diminish IQ.

[Lfctony]

Well Rollo, its quite funny, because the rocks in the background on the 8.10s look better than the 8.9s... Care to explain that?

[CaptNKILL]

Well Rollo, its quite funny, because the rocks in the background on the 8.10s look better than the 8.9s... Care to explain that?

Yeah, I'm totally confused.

The entire scene in the 8.9 pic is less detailed than the one in the 8.10 pic. All of the textures appear to be lacking normal maps and shading in the 8.9 pic.

[Xion X2]

I think there are optomizations in the 8.10 hotfix drivers that diminish IQ.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6446/41ct1rb65vlsl500aa240cm5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CaptNKILL]

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=33732&stc=1&d=1224941902

URL is invalid.

[Rollo]

Check my link again guys.

I saved the game so I'd be in the same position, shot it with normal and re-named executable.

There's clearly missing rocks and textures, I think there are game specific optomizations in play to try and boost benchmarks by making the card do less work.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2044115

[Ninja Prime]

Check my link again guys.

I saved the game so I'd be in the same position, shot it with normal and re-named executable.

There's clearly missing rocks and textures, I think there are game specific optomizations in play to try and boost benchmarks by making the card do less work.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2044115

Actually, I have a 4870x2 and I have the hotfix and I dont see any of these errors, I guess you're just a desperate fanboy grasping at straws.

[Rollo]

Actually, I have a 4870x2 and I have the hotfix and I dont see any of these errors, I guess you're just a desperate fanboy grasping at straws.

Instead of attacking me, why not send me your email and I'll send you my save game, you can see for yourself?

[aceflier]

Instead of attacking me, why not send me your email and I'll send you my save game, you can see for yourself?

+1 Good find. Amd :thumbdwn: Maybe this is AMD new occlusion dx10.1 mapping occludes textures. LOL

Capt. the rocks look better in the reneamed .exe pics.

[Xion X2]

Check my link again guys.

There's clearly missing rocks and textures, I think there are game specific optomizations in play to try and boost benchmarks by making the card do less work.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2044115

Yes, because Far Cry 2 is so much more graphically demanding than Crysis, where the 4870 already beats the 260 and the 4870X2 already beats the 280 in performance.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5118/crysisbittechka7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

God, you're pathetic.

[aceflier]

Yes, because Far Cry 2 is so much more graphically demanding than Crysis, where the 4870 already beats the 260 and the 4870X2 already beats the 280 in performance.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5118/crysisbittechka7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

God, you're pathetic.

Whats pathetic is you showing a benchmark for Crysis when this thread is about FC2.

Where the 4870X2 loss to gtx260 SLI and 4870 512mb loss to 8800ultra (funny one there) and 4870 1mb loss to gtx260/280.

With this driver thats cheating or so it seems. ;)

Source
http://www.guru3d.com/article/far-cry-2-pc-vga-graphics-performance-review/5

[Xion X2]

Whats pathetic is you showing a benchmark for Crysis when this thread is about FC2.

No, what's pathetic is you being too much of a blinded fanboy to have enough common sense to realize that if ATI cards have no trouble running Crysis, the best looking game on the planet, then they sure as hell wouldn't have any trouble running Far Cry well and need to remove objects to boost benchmark results.

Use your brain.

If anything, it could possibly be a rendering error in the driver (even though this seems inconsistent from user to user.) But making the grand leap in logic here that Rollo has in saying that it's done to "boost benchmarks" is absolutely, positively, 200% absurd. ATi cards are already strong enough in parallax occlusion (see: Crysis) that they don't need to exclude this feature to make a game run well.

[aceflier]

No, what's pathetic is you being too much of a blinded fanboy to have enough common sense to realize that if ATI cards have no trouble running Crysis, the best looking game on the planet, then they sure as hell wouldn't have any trouble running Far Cry well and need to remove objects to boost benchmark results.

Use your brain.

I'm no fanboy I have ati and nvidia machines. A better test for crysis is gtx 260sli vs 4870X2 considering the prices eh?

[K007]

Are those results using the latest drivers?...

[Rollo]

Are those results using the latest drivers?...

My results are using the Catalyst 8.10 Hotfix drivers, using the Catalyst 8.9 drivers that came with the card caused massive corruption in Far Cry2. AFAIK there are no later drivers available from AMD.

[K007]

i have no problems here. 8.10 and .10 hotfix this morning...i thought i might install it anyway.

I am so spoiled by Crysis graphics -.-

[Rollo]

i have no problems here. 8.10 and .10 hotfix this morning...i thought i might install it anyway.

I am so spoiled by Crysis graphics -.-

If you send me your email, I'll send you my saved game and you can see for yourself.

[Xion X2]

A better test for crysis is gtx 260sli vs 4870X2 considering the prices eh?

No, because SLI is a dual-card setup and costs the user in two other ways. It requires a motherboard with an extra PCI-E slot, and two cards use up more power than one X2.

When looking at single card solutions, ATI has Nvidia beat in both the middle and high end in Crysis.

And yet.. they somehow need to exclude objects from games to perform up to par when they already run the best looking game there is, Crysis (that contains this exact same graphical feature), better than the competition.

I have ati and nvidia machines.

Then why is this ATi machine not in your sig?

[Rollo]

No, because SLI is a dual-card setup and costs the user in two other ways. It requires a motherboard with an extra PCI-E slot, and two cards use up more power than one X2.

When looking at single card solutions, ATI has Nvidia beat in both the middle and high end in Crysis.

And yet.. they somehow need to exclude objects from games to perform up to par when they already run the best looking game there is, Crysis (that contains this exact same graphical feature), better than the competition.

QUOTE]

You keep bringing up Crysis when we're discussing Far Cry 2 for unknown reasons.:headexplode:

XionX2:
The truth is out there:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2241129&enterthread=y&STARTPAGE=3

[Quote]Mine is rendering like rollo's 8.10 hotfix shots, with stuff disappearing into the road. My screens just show tires instead of rocks.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2241129&FTVAR_STKEYWORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=2&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

first of ALL, Rollo is correct; there are issues with the hotfix beta drivers


there ARE textures missing in the Hotfix compared to the *regular* Cat 8-10 drivers - all of my testing is at 19x12, with Ultra details in-game. 16xAF is applied in the CP.
- i have 15 images to compare side-by side - GTX280, 4870/1GB Cat 8-10 and 4870-1GB Hotfixed drivers - all with varying levels of filtering applied .. and the 280GTX' IQ is pretty damn comparable to the IQ of the regular Cat drivers; just the hotfix images are missing textures
[that is what i want you to see]

Secondly, the hotfix DOES run faster than the regular drivers
- again for each level of filtering, i have a chart to compare performance between GTX280 and 4870 on both sets of drivers

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33934554&page=2

The anomaly or whatever is in fact present right now in the game with the 8.10 hotfix driver, I've seen it for myself and it's not present in the official 8.9's or on nvidia hardware using the 180.43 drivers. Hopefully ATi gets this fixed up soon.

So what do you think Xion? The Moderator on the ATi fansite and the three guys who tried it at AnandTech are all lieing?

All you have to do is send me your email, I'll send you my save game, see for yourself. If you don't want to do that, walk down the roads and look at the rocks, with the hotfix on and then the executable renamed. This is legit, it's a reproduceable error that raises performance and lowers IQ, just like the old "Quack" scandal.

[Xion X2]

You don't appear to listen very well.

I never said the issue didn't exist, but I disagree strongly with your interpretation of the event. Unlike yourself, I do not believe that this issue, if it exists (and it appears that it may,) is intentional. I believe it's a simple rendering error caused by a rushed driver.

Your green-tinted glasses will allow you to see this as nothing but a conspiracy by ATI to improve performance. That's a load of crap considering that ATI cards are already faster than Nvidia cards in other games with parallax occlusion enabled (which is what we're talking about here, correct?)

So tell me, honestly, which sounds more believable? That this is a rendering bug caused by a rushed driver, or that ATI is purposely hacking objects/features out of games because their products can't run them well enough--even when they race through games like Crysis (that has this same feature) faster than the competition? Also, please do not tell me that you believe a team full of MIT engineers is stupid enough to believe that something so obvious wouldn't be discovered. :lol:

In regards to the possible performance hit this causes, this is not some new feature. Parallax occlusion has been done in other games, and it's been done on ATI hardware in Crysis very successfully. So there is no liability in this area that ATI would need to hack a driver to compensate for.

Now away with the black helicopters. Every time this forum starts to right itself with logic you come in here shouting FUD from the top of your lungs. What's really sad here is that you had your chance to actually put forth something useful. You had your chance to showcase a foulup by ATI that could've put Nvidia in a better light. But once again, you showed poor restraint. You had to let your enthusiasm for Nvidia cloud your judgment to the point that you associated this with a conspiracy on ATI's part, and this bonehead move brought this thread down in flames of mockery--even from Nvidia owners.

Too bad, so sad. Go get 'em next time, Tiger.

[Rollo]

You don't appear to listen very well.

I never said the issue didn't exist, but I disagree strongly with your interpretation of the event. Unlike yourself, I do not believe that this issue, if it exists (and it appears that it may,) is intentional. I believe it's a simple rendering error caused by a rushed driver.

Your green-tinted glasses will allow you to see this as nothing but a conspiracy by ATI to improve performance. That's a load of crap considering that ATI cards are already faster than Nvidia cards in other games with parallax occlusion enabled (which is what we're talking about here, correct?)

So tell me, honestly, which sounds more believable? That this is a rendering bug caused by a rushed driver, or that ATI is purposely hacking objects/features out of games because their products can't run them well enough--even when they race through games like Crysis (that has this same feature) faster than the competition? Also, please do not tell me that you believe a team full of MIT engineers is stupid enough to believe that something so obvious wouldn't be discovered. :lol:

In regards to the possible performance hit this causes, this is not some new feature. Parallax occlusion has been done in other games, and it's been done on ATI hardware in Crysis very successfully. So there is no liability in this area that ATI would need to hack a driver to compensate for.

Now away with the black helicopters. Every time this forum starts to right itself with logic you come in here shouting FUD from the top of your lungs. What's really sad here is that you had your chance to actually put forth something useful. You had your chance to showcase a foulup by ATI that could've put Nvidia in a better light. But once again, you showed poor restraint. You had to let your enthusiasm for Nvidia cloud your judgment to the point that you associated this with a conspiracy on ATI's part, and this bonehead move brought this thread down in flames of mockery--even from Nvidia owners.

Too bad, so sad. Go get 'em next time, Tiger.

Errrrrr......yeah.

XionX2, I brought the issue to the forum, which was my intent.

I've shouted no FUD, there's a rendering problem with a patch designed for Far Cry2 that degrades image quality and increases performance a bit.

Are you saying ATi doesn't test their patches? If so, I guess that's a bigger problem than what I noted.