PDA

View Full Version : Blu-ray is dead - heckuva job, Sony!


Pages : [1] 2 3

nekrosoft13
10-30-08, 05:50 PM
Blu-ray is in a death spiral. 12 months from now Blu-ray will be a videophile niche, not a mass market product.

With only a 4% share of US movie disc sales and HD download capability arriving, the Blu-ray disc Association (BDA) is still smoking dope. Even $150 Blu-ray players won’t save it.

16 months ago I called the HD war for Blu-ray. My bad. Who dreamed they could both lose?

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
Delusional Sony exec Rick Clancy needs to put the crack pipe down and really look at the market dynamics.

In a nutshell: consumers drive the market and they don’t care about Blu-ray’s theoretical advantages. Especially during a world-wide recession.

Remember Betamax? SACD? Minidisk? Laser Disk? DVD-Audio? There are more losers than winners in consumer storage formats.

It’s all about volume. 8 months after Toshiba threw in the towel, Blu-ray still doesn’t have it.

The Blu-ray Disc Association doesn’t get it
$150 Blu-ray disc players are a good start, but it won’t take Blu-ray over the finish line. The BDA is stuck in the past with a flawed five-year-old strategy.

The original game plan
Two things killed the original strategy. First the fight with HD DVD stalled the industry for two years. Initial enthusiasm for high definition video on disk was squandered.

Second, the advent of low cost up-sampling DVD players dramatically cut the video quality advantage of Blu-ray DVDs. Suddenly, for $100, your average consumer can put good video on their HDTV using standard DVDs. When Blu-ray got started no one dreamed this would happen.

Piggies at the trough
The Blu-ray Disc Association hoped for a massive cash bonanza as millions of consumers discovered that standard DVDs looked awful on HDTV. To cash in they loaded Blu-ray licenses with costly fees. Blu-ray doesn’t just suck for consumers: small producers can’t afford it either.

According to Digital Content Producer Blu-ray doesn’t cut it for business:

Recordable discs don’t play reliably across the range of Blu-ray players - so you can’t do low-volume runs yourself.
Service bureau reproduction runs $20 per single layer disc in quantities of 300 or less.
Hollywood style printed/replicated Blu-ray discs are considerably cheaper once you reach the thousand unit quantity: just $3.50 per disc.
High-quality authoring programs like Sony Blu-print or Sonic Solutions Scenarist cost $40,000.
The Advanced Access Content System - the already hacked DRM - has a one-time fee of $3000 plus a per project cost of almost $1600 plus $.04 per disk. And who defines “project?”
Then the Blu-ray disc Association charges another $3000 annually to use their very exclusive - on 4% of all video disks! - logo.
That’s why you don’t see quirky indie flicks on Blu-ray. Small producers can’t afford it - even though they shoot in HDV and HD.

The Storage Bits take
Don’t expect Steve Jobs to budge from his “bag of hurt” understatement. Or Final Cut Studio support for Blu-ray. I suspect that Jobs is using his Hollywood clout from his board seat on Disney and his control of iTunes to try to talk sense to the BDA.

But the BDA won’t budge. They, like so much of Hollywood, are stuck in the past.

A forward looking strategy would include:

Recognition that consumers don’t need Blu-ray. It is a nice-to-have and must be priced accordingly.
Accept the money spent on Blu-ray is gone and will never earn back the investment. Then you can begin thinking clearly about how to maximize Blu-ray penetration.
The average consumer will probably pay $50 more for a Blu-ray player that is competitive with the average up-sampling DVD player. Most of the current Blu-ray players are junk: slow, feature-poor and way over-priced.
Disk price margins can’t be higher than DVDs and probably should be less. The question the studios need to ask is: “do we want to be selling disks in 5 years?” No? Then keep it up. Turn distribution over to your very good friends at Comcast, Apple and Time Warner. You’ll be like Procter & Gamble paying Safeway to stock your products.
Fire all the market research firms telling you how great it is going to be. They are playing you. Your #1 goal: market share. High volume is your only chance to earn your way out of this mess and keep some control of your distribution.
Time is short. Timid incrementalism will kill you.

Like Agent Smith delivering the bad news to a complacent cop: “No, Lieutenant, your men are already dead.”

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=365

Bman212121
10-30-08, 06:13 PM
The horse, it's already dead.

XxDeadlyxX
10-30-08, 06:52 PM
Yeah, just like PC gaming is dead, right? ;)

Just wait until The Dark Knight comes out... I'm sure it will smash records etc. This is really Blu-ray's first year of big blockbusters from the theatres all to itself... need to give it more time.

Dead or not, I am enjoying my Iron Man Blu-ray at the moment :D

einstein_314
10-30-08, 06:58 PM
I don't understand. What are we going to do for HD video if Blu-ray dies?? There is no comparison between a upscaled DVD and a native 1080P video.

Oh well....I guess if it does disappear that means there will be loads of super cheap blu-rays to buy...

Buenamos
10-30-08, 07:36 PM
I don't understand. What are we going to do for HD video if Blu-ray dies?? There is no comparison between a upscaled DVD and a native 1080P video.

Oh well....I guess if it does disappear that means there will be loads of super cheap blu-rays to buy...

Digital Distribution. I can see it happening especially when netflix is having such success. Soon the 360 will have full support including 720p streaming and I know there are a few blu-ray players that work with netflix as well.

Medion
10-30-08, 07:42 PM
I don't understand. What are we going to do for HD video if Blu-ray dies?? There is no comparison between a upscaled DVD and a native 1080P video.

Oh well....I guess if it does disappear that means there will be loads of super cheap blu-rays to buy...

Digital Distribution is taking off. Also, Holodisc was announced before HD-DVD and Blu-Ray even launched. Holodisc is supposed to see 300GB versions out by late 2009, and the 1.5TB discs out in 2012. Imagine 1080p video, uncompressed.

CaptNKILL
10-30-08, 08:53 PM
So how much bandwidth is required to watch a streaming blu-ray quality 1080p video with high quality surround audio?

Marvel_us
10-30-08, 08:59 PM
So how much bandwidth is required to watch a streaming blu-ray quality 1080p video with high quality surround audio?

That's the thing, it won't be as good as 1080p on Blu-ray. Yea, dd is nice but internet speed is no where near fast enough to download 10+gb. Also, companies such as comcast are putting bandwith caps on their service so that doesn't help much either. I don't see Blu-ray going anywhere any time soon.

einstein_314
10-30-08, 09:00 PM
Okay, only problem with digital distribution, is that although sure it might be great in the US, it sucks everywhere else. Take here in canada for example. I have a choice between iTunes (which I don't think has HD for canada) and .... that's it.

As for holodisc.....If blu-ray can't make it. I don't see how this holodisc will.

I think the main problem is everyone was afraid to jump on the blu-ray band wagon in case it failed. But now it's failing because nobody jumped on it. The same thing will happen with holodisc.

evilchris
10-30-08, 09:39 PM
Blu-ray is drowning. The biggest problem with it gaining traction is cost. When Joe 6 Pack sees a DVD for $15 and the same movie on BD for $30, he won't be buying the Blu-ray.

CaptNKILL
10-30-08, 09:53 PM
Yeah price is a big factor, but I think the biggest problem is that 96% of people don't even care if their movies are higher quality.

The wide spread use of things like iTunes, Netflix, youtube, and other video download services (legal or not) shows that people generally just want to have their media whenever they want it, even if it looks inferior to a DVD.

Lowering the price would help but I just don't think enough people give a damn for high definition video to take off any time soon.

It isn't like DVD where it offered lots of completely new features, convenience, better reliability and the huge jump to practical digital video. Those are things that just about everyone wanted after wearing out VHS tapes that took up a lot of space, required manual rewinding and looked worse every time you watched them.

I honestly thought BD was doing better than this article said, but it doesn't surprise me that its struggling.

mullet
10-30-08, 11:43 PM
1. Blu Ray is not dead just very very slow adoption due to ridiculous pricing on movies.

2. Netflix and Tivo signed a deal for streaming video over a ISP.

3. Streaming is good as long as the ISP's don't care about competition and limit your bandwidth like Comcast did @ 250GB a month. :rolleyes:

4. Me personally I will always want a hard copy of a movie in HD not to mention I want the best image quality I can get.

5. Sony needs to pull there head out of there ass and drop the prices for faster adoption and the fact that the economy is in a major slowdown.

6. I really miss HD-DVD.

mojoman0
10-30-08, 11:46 PM
its a shame sony has dumped so much dope into these new technologies that never catch on i.e. Blu-ray and PS3 (cell). I feel like they deserve better than what they have been handed for their achievements. What is sony's #1 profit source btw?

Toss3
10-31-08, 05:07 AM
So how much bandwidth is required to watch a streaming blu-ray quality 1080p video with high quality surround audio?

Around 48 mb/s (40mb for video and 8mb for uncompressed audio) for very high quality streams like transformers(blu-ray).

Viral
10-31-08, 05:28 AM
Well I can say without a doubt that HD streaming will never take off over here given the average internet connection is 10x too slow and offers 10x less of a dl cap a month than the average HD movie. We can thank the money hungry telstra for this crap. I can't stand it when people talk about the future being all DD when I'm stuck on an 8Mb connection with 25GB DL/m for $80/m. I'm not the norm by far, the average connection is probably around 512Kb with 2GB/m.

ADSL2 at 24Mbit would help (still nowhere near enough) if they eased up on the dl caps, but even then, telstra have priority on exchanges (pretty much exclusive telstra everywhere but capitol cities) so I can't go with any other ISP but them in my area. I'd rather not pay twice as much for 10GB/m with uploads included :\

Anyway, end rant. But my point is, some countries have retarded governments that sell off the major public telephone company with near 100% of the communications infastructure so that they can dominate the market and keep it exactly how they want it - give us nothing and charge us everything. So, I'm sorry, but DD for HD movies won't work on a global scale.

Jon
10-31-08, 06:13 AM
For me, bluray has 3 major problems at the moment.

1:- Originally I was attempting to watch bluray on my PC which took hours of fiddling, patching power dvd, extra software for copy protection cause we are not allowed to watch store bought blurays on our own tvs. In the end I just got fed up with messing about for 30 mins while friends eyed each other impatiently wondering when I would finally get a film playing. So just went back to buying dvd.

So then I get a PS3... and this is what every household needs, convenience. Having a standalone bluray player makes a big difference as I can just shove the disc in and so far all have worked first time. Reviving my interest in bluray.

So then
2:- Price. Blurays are double the price of dvds here. So I have to think, is this film good enough that I want to see it on bluray? At the moment its about 1/3 that I get on bluray with the other 2/3rds being dvd. If they were the same price, or close enough, I would go blu every time!

3:- And this is the most unforgivable for me. I bought Wanted on DVD last week... I paid £9.90 for it. I was really looking forward to seeing it. I wanted the bluray but:

Wanted (Blu-ray)
£14.99
Due for release on 01/12/2008

So lets get this right... if I want to watch the future, I not only have to pay more... I have to wait another 2 months!? For a film I really want to see! Whats the point, bluray is killing itself.

If bluray wants to win, it needs to get the bluray on the shelf 2 months before the dvd version, not the other way round. Then they might shift a few more players!

crainger
10-31-08, 07:00 AM
I have around 10 BD.

Prolly around 20 HD-DVD.

betterdan
10-31-08, 08:45 AM
HD DVD was better.

ViN86
10-31-08, 09:30 AM
i still think HD-DVD would sell better.

usually, if anyone who doesnt really know anything about TV see's HD in front of a label they do know (DVD), they get interested and want to buy it. but Blu-Ray puts the product at a handicap from the get go lol.

Bman212121
10-31-08, 10:41 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but a lot of influence would also come from the economy. If you had to trim the fat on your expenditures I'd be willing to guess movies would be one of the first to go.

Medion
10-31-08, 12:48 PM
As for holodisc.....If blu-ray can't make it. I don't see how this holodisc will.

It depends. A less greedy consortium behind it, lower royalty fees, could lead to more realistic pricing. Not right off the bat, of course. Also, Blu-Ray promised HD, but a lot of what I'm watching on it is overly compressed, not to mention almost all special features are standard definition.

If there is still room for a physical media over digital distribution, Blu-Ray was never anything more than a stop-gap. By 2015, it looks to be OLED televisions and HoloDisc as the format.

I think the main problem is everyone was afraid to jump on the blu-ray band wagon in case it failed. But now it's failing because nobody jumped on it. The same thing will happen with holodisc.

Everyone was afraid of jumping on Blu-Ray because it had tough competition. Once Blu-Ray won though, the new excuse became the price. If Holodisc can launch in a way similar to how HD-DVD did (working players, uniform spec, the ability to price low, etc.), it has a chance at real market penetration. Also, it would be launching at a better time. Because, while DVD only required having a television set, Blu-Ray requires an HDTV. So, Blu-Ray's market penetration is also dependent on the market penetration of HD televisions.

ViN86
10-31-08, 03:48 PM
i think BD is failing cause it's owned by Sony. aka money hungry corporation that only cares about DRM and content protection. :retard:

crainger
10-31-08, 05:19 PM
I feel Sony isn't that bad. On PSN if I buy a soundtrack, it's DRM free. On my MD player if I put a track on I can check it out 3 times, before I need to check them back in. My Mini Disc player plays ANY CD. My Sony clock radio plays any radio station. No questions.

Stop with the FUD ViN.

Redeemed
10-31-08, 06:20 PM
I feel Sony isn't that bad. On PSN if I buy a soundtrack, it's DRM free. On my MD player if I put a track on I can check it out 3 times, before I need to check them back in. My Mini Disc player plays ANY CD. My Sony clock radio plays any radio station. No questions.

Stop with the FUD ViN.

Wow. :bugeyes:

You never cease to amaze. :rolleyes:

AngelGraves13
10-31-08, 06:51 PM
Once Feb 2009 comes and goes as does analogue TV in the US, the need for BD and HD will sky-rocket.

By next summer everyone will have an HDTV and BD player.