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yoladude
05-25-03, 08:34 PM
im lookin to upgrade my geforce4mx440. my budget, though, cause my only income is allowance, is about 90 bucks (if it was higher i'd get a geforce4 ti). i was browsing newegg, and found two cards i'd consider: they're both gainward geforce3ti200 golden samples, but one is 64, the other is 128 mb. the 64mb one is 74 bucks, the 128 one 88. ive been looking in reviews (old ones) and found that usually, with older games, the extra 64 megs doesn't make too much of a diff. but with games like ut2k3 and rtcw, is there a difference? i'd like to spend as little as possible.

p.s.
already looked at 8500 le's and 9100s, i don't want to take the risk of getting a lower clocked one. the gf3 outdoes it anyway. and don't bother recommending a gf4ti, i've already looked, and it's just out of my price range. because of my EXTREME lack of funds, my $90 budget is final.

thanks for any opinions u can give me.

Blakhart
05-25-03, 08:38 PM
Spend the 88.

DaveM
05-25-03, 08:48 PM
128 deff.

I had that same card and had it clocked to Ti500 speeds no heat problems or anything :).

recommend big time.

DaveM

yoladude
05-25-03, 09:29 PM
alrighty, sounds good guys....appreciate the comments and no bashing of the card. with overclocking, i'm hoping it'll come "close" to the stock 4200. this'll be the card to get me through to next year, which i'll save up for a new card then (or get one for my b-day or somethin like that).

micron
05-25-03, 09:58 PM
You think a GeForce 3 will out do a 9100 or 8500LE?....lol, read some reviews....

ChrisRay
05-25-03, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by micron
You think a GeForce 3 will out do a 9100 or 8500LE?....lol, read some reviews....


in Anti Aliasing it will. I think the cards are fairly close, Close enough to warrant picking one too your specific needs,


It's not like a cut and dry 9700 Pro Compared to a Geforce 4 Ti 4600 scenerio.

They are close enough to where the dicernable difference wouldn't matter if someone wanted to buy one to their current needs

yoladude
05-25-03, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by micron
You think a GeForce 3 will out do a 9100 or 8500LE?....lol, read some reviews....

i have, and it does in many of them. there are a few main reasons why i'm picking up the gainward gs ti200 128 over an 8500le/9100.
1. default speeds. a lot of 9100/8500le's come clocked at 250/230 or 250/200 with 5 or even 6ns ram. NOT GOOD. the gainward has 4ns ram, much faster, with ramsinks.

2. looks. the gainward looks hella cool, red pcb, heatsinks, etc. radeon 8500 looks kinda wimpy, with it's tiny cooling fan.

3. overclocking. the gainward gs is guaranteed to be a good overclocker, with the orb cooling fan, and memory heatsinks. it even comes overclocked out of the box! i don't think an 8500 w/stock wimpy ass cooler would overclock too well (don't know from experience tho, just a guess). besaides, there are hundreds of people who can't get their 9100s at 250/200 or 250/230 up to stock 275/275 speeds. just doesn't happen. and look, a stock ti200 at 175 is comparable to 8500 at 275. wierd, huh?

anywayz, not to seem like an asshole, but i just feel that i'm going to be more satisfied with the gf3. granted, i have a gf4mx now that's rock solid oc'ed to 300/410, but i tried a radeon 9000pro 128 in the past that wouldn't work no matter what. so, i'm also a little biased towards nvidia.

micron
05-25-03, 11:44 PM
All of the reason why you are prefering a GeForce 3 are perfectly acceptable. The memory ratings on the 8500LE/9100 you threw out were slightly off though. While I will admit that some of the LE's dont come with the fastest of memory, the BBA 8500LE I bought about 6 months back came with 3.3ns memory, and was clocked @250/275. I ran it @300/315. It was a Ti500 killer.

AthlonXP1800
05-26-03, 12:20 AM
I dont understand why you want to go for Geforce 3 Ti200, if you got Geforce 4MX 440, dont bother upgrade. I collected datas on cards specs and arrange below:

GeForce4 Ti 4200

Triangles per Second: 113 Million
Fill Rate: 4 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Operations per Second: 1.03 Trillion
Memory Bandwidth: 8GB/Sec.

Geforce FX 5200 Ultra

Triangles per Second: 81 Million
Fill Rate: 1.3 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 10.4GB/Sec.

Geforce FX 5200

Triangles per Second: 63 Million
Fill Rate: 1 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 6.4GB/Sec.

GeForce3 Ti 500

Triangles per Second: 40 Million
Fill Rate: 3.84 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Operations per Second: 960 Billion
Memory Bandwidth: 8GB/Sec.

GeForce4 MX 460

Triangles per Second: 38 Million
Fill Rate: 1.2 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 8.8GB/Sec.

GeForce4 MX 440

Triangles per Second: 34 Million
Fill Rate: 1.1 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 5.3GB/Sec.

GeForce4 MX 420

Triangles per Second: 31 Million
Fill Rate: 1 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 2.7GB/Sec.

GeForce3 Ti 200

Triangles per Second: 29 Million
Fill Rate: 2.8 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Operations per Second: 700 Billion
Memory Bandwidth: 6.4GB/Sec.

You definely better off getting Geforce 4 Ti4200 than get wimpy Geforce 3 Ti 200, it cant rendering more than 29 million triangles p/s.

For $90 get 64Mb MSI Geforce 4 Ti 4200

http://www.target-sale.com/tusa/items/videoagp/i03830.html

Or if you wont mind wait a bit while to get $6.34 more...

For $96.34 get 128Mb Eagle Geforce 4 Ti 4200

http://www.compu-terra.com./spec.cgi?VIDP4000MX42NV7+pw

If you want to spend less to replace your Geforce 4MX and not bother about FSAA, get high speed Geforce FX 5200, Prolink Geforce FX 5200 128MB with 4ns memory, Core 275Mhz/Memory 500Mhz for $80.00.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=14-108-115&refer=pricewatch

In some benchmarks Geforce FX 5200 is faster than and as fast as Geforce 4 Ti 4200.

Geforce4ti4200
05-26-03, 12:45 AM
"i have a gf4mx now that's rock solid oc'ed to 300/410"


thats a crappy overclock, mine did 560 on the ram. never tried the core yet, but I could probably exceed 300MHz

DaveM
05-26-03, 12:55 AM
I would get the 4200 for 90 or the other for 96 for those prices or save and get the 5200 Ultra which is faster than the GF 3 Ti200.

DaveM

AthlonXP1800
05-26-03, 01:21 AM
Things seem change again as I found Geforce FX 5200 spec (not Ultra)

GeForce FX 5200

Triangles per Second: 63 Million
Fill Rate: 1 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
Memory Bandwidth: 6.4GB/Sec.

You think of get Geforce FX 5200 Ultra? Well it cost $151, 5200 Ultra clock speed is 325Mhz and memory speed is 650Mhz but I dont know if you could possible overclocking Prolink Geforce FX 5200 128MB's 275/500 to 325/650.

AthlonXP1800
05-26-03, 01:35 AM
I found Geforce FX 5200 reviews with benchmarks it also got Proview Geforce FX 5200, it vote the best performance card, it has 5200 benchmarking with 5200 Ultra, Geforce 4 Ti 4200 and Geforce 3 Ti 500.

http://www.darkcrow.co.kr/Review/Review_Content.asp?board_idx=156&contentpage=6

yoladude
05-26-03, 01:45 AM
all of ur opinions are fair enough guys....i can do a little more research before i buy (planning on buying in a week or so).

quote from geforce4ti4200
thats a crappy overclock, mine did 560 on the ram. never tried the core yet, but I could probably exceed 300MHz

thx for the info, i'll push mine higher. i haven't reached an unstable frequency yet, core of memory. highest power strip will go is 443 for memory....i'll download rivatuner.

as for the ti4200 64 vs. the ti 200 128, i would guess the 4200 would outperform it by a wide margin. i'll look into it more.
once again, thx.

edit: btw, my main concern was gettin a 128mb card. is the perf. difference between the gf4ti 64 and 128 big? cause nowadays the memory between the two is clocked the same, and the 128mb one is thirty bucks more.

editedit: u know what, just scrap the whole idea. i'll get by on my mx440...i'm gonna see how high it'll clock. i'll save up and see what i can get during the summer....maybe my parents will get me a graudiation present :).

AthlonXP1800
05-26-03, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by yoladude
all of ur opinions are fair enough guys....i can do a little more research before i buy (planning on buying in a week or so).

quote from geforce4ti4200
thats a crappy overclock, mine did 560 on the ram. never tried the core yet, but I could probably exceed 300MHz

thx for the info, i'll push mine higher. i haven't reached an unstable frequency yet, core of memory. highest power strip will go is 443 for memory....i'll download rivatuner.

as for the ti4200 64 vs. the ti 200 128, i would guess the 4200 would outperform it by a wide margin. i'll look into it more.
once again, thx.

edit: btw, my main concern was gettin a 128mb card. is the perf. difference between the gf4ti 64 and 128 big? cause nowadays the memory between the two is clocked the same, and the 128mb one is thirty bucks more.

editedit: u know what, just scrap the whole idea. i'll get by on my mx440...i'm gonna see how high it'll clock. i'll save up and see what i can get during the summer....maybe my parents will get me a graudiation present :).

LOL okay, I judge on the 5200 benchmarks, the performance between Geforce 4 Ti 4200 64Mb vs Geforce 3 Ti 200, 4200 will outperform Ti 200 as much as 50%. 128Mb will be much better than 64Mb cos 128Mb will store more textures in today games.

Maybe your parent will get you a special graudiation present? :)

Could it be....Geforce FX 5900 Ultra!

yoladude
05-26-03, 02:33 AM
man, i can only hope!:D (gotta upgrade my psu tho)

Blakhart
05-26-03, 02:35 AM
There's no way a mx card can hold a candle to a gf3. Same for a 5200. If a gf4ti with 128 is in your price range, get it. If not, get the gf3 with 128. You will not be disapointed.

StealthHawk
05-26-03, 02:48 AM
yoladude,

Here are my comments on your scenario.

Get the 128MB gf3Ti200 if you:
a) play games at the resolution of 1280 or higher.
b) play games at the resolution of 1280 or higher with FSAA turned on.

If you play games at 1024X768 or lower, then the 64MB gf3Ti200 should serve you just as well, and you will be saving money.


Some additional comments:
1) the GeForce3 isn't very fast anymore. By the time all games want 128MB of video memory to play at say 1024X768 with full detail levels, the GeForce3 will be too slow anyway. It's already slow, I know, I had one.
2) if you want to play games with FSAA and AF on, then the GeForce3 isn't for you. If you don't care about extra eye candy, then disregard this.
3) you can find cards around $100 that are significantly better buys than the GeForce3, such as GeForce4Ti4200.
4) you should consider how long you are going to keep the GeForce3, if you decide to buy it. If you are going to keep this card for say, 2 years, then I would advise that this is not a wise purchase. If you are keeping it for 6 months or 1 year, then it might be worth it. It sounds like you don't have much extra money to spend on video cards, so I'm not sure getting "stuck" with a GeForce3 at this time would be wise, with games like Half-Life2 and Doom3 around the corner.
5) If you do decide to get one of the gf3Ti200s, you will enjoy your card and notice around 40% performance increase across the board :) Good luck with your decision.

yoladude
05-26-03, 03:26 AM
once again, i thank u all for ur constructive and helpful comments. i'm still considering what to get, and checking out sites every day (the newegg refurb section usually has interesting stuff). anywayz, the main problem is getting my parents to pay for part of it. since i'm only ordering online, my parents have to use their credit card, and pay for whatever cash i don't have. ugh....can't wait to get my own job and my own money!
btw, StealhHawk, i'm probably looking for a card to get me to next christmas or my b-day in january when i'll ask for a better card. argh! so many decisions. i'll ask my parents how much they'll help me out, and decide which card then.
i've narrowed it down to two choices;
gf3ti 200 128mb
gf4ti 4200 64 mb.
gah! can't decide!

btwbtw....most of my games are "old". the most played games i have right now are alice, gta3 (badly lagging), ut2k3, red faction, etc. gonna get gta vice soon (hopefully), and halo for pc when it comes out. i'm guessin either card would do me well for these games. damn! still can't decide.

edit: actually, last time i asked for a card, i asked for the xfx gf4ti 4200 128mb at newegg.com. i told them it was 117. their response was, "DOLLARS?" lol. my parents just don't understand how good a deal that is....so i'm trying to stay as low, and i mean LOW as possible with as little help from them as possible.

Nv40
05-26-03, 05:00 AM
yoladude, the Geforce4ti200 with 64megs
can be at times up to 2xtimes the performance of the Geforce3.
it suicide to "upgrade" to a geforce3 at this time.. when you can get
a geforce4ti200 for just $90.00.

so dont look at the quantity of RAM , because the diferences
between 64 and 128megs are minimal.
with the Geforce4 no only your old games will play great..
but even newer games.. like splinter cell ,unrealT,Doom3.

UT2003
http://survey.nnselect.com/survey/is_panelist_120.html

SplintelCEll
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030416/radeon_9600-18.html

Seroius SAm2..
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030416/radeon_9600-12.html

Doom3 preview
http://survey.nnselect.com/survey/is_panelist_120.html

as you see in the latest games.. the geforce4ti200 does extremely well for $90 ,the performance is as good as the latest Directx9 cards that cost $200 ,when not using AA/AF to maximun settings .

from a geforce4mx to a geforce4ti200 you will notice from 2x-3x better scores in future DIrectx8 games. ;)

Dazz
05-26-03, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by yoladude
all of ur opinions are fair enough guys....i can do a little more research before i buy (planning on buying in a week or so).

quote from geforce4ti4200
thats a crappy overclock, mine did 560 on the ram. never tried the core yet, but I could probably exceed 300MHz

thx for the info, i'll push mine higher. i haven't reached an unstable frequency yet, core of memory. highest power strip will go is 443 for memory....i'll download rivatuner.

as for the ti4200 64 vs. the ti 200 128, i would guess the 4200 would outperform it by a wide margin. i'll look into it more.
once again, thx.

edit: btw, my main concern was gettin a 128mb card. is the perf. difference between the gf4ti 64 and 128 big? cause nowadays the memory between the two is clocked the same, and the 128mb one is thirty bucks more.

editedit: u know what, just scrap the whole idea. i'll get by on my mx440...i'm gonna see how high it'll clock. i'll save up and see what i can get during the summer....maybe my parents will get me a graudiation present :). Riva Tuner sux man the reason being is that it uses high lateancy to increase your memory speed which decreases your speed.
My card does 315/633MHz w/ riva 315/650MHz and i can say that at 650MHz it was slower then at 633MHz.

john19055
05-26-03, 10:41 AM
If you are planning on a GF3 ,I would look in to getting a GFTI4200 ,you can find them for under a $100 and most of them overclock good and it would be faster than any kind of GF3.

yoladude
05-26-03, 01:22 PM
wow.....i really appreciate all the help u guys have given me. as for the ti 4200....im gonna talk to my parents about the msi 64 meg one at target-sale.com sometime today....u know, gotta time it right.
thx again

also, just noticed it comes with a crapload of games...good for me! woohoo.

AthlonXP1800
05-26-03, 06:14 PM
I found great review of Prolink Geforce FX 5200 card

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=477

Tweaktown managed to overclocking the card from default clock speed 275/500 to 310/585. Sound very impressive, it very almost as fast as $151 Geforce FX 5200 Ultra's default clock speed 325/650 for $79 to $80.

I think if fitted with very good heatsink, you could overclock it crazy to 350/700 or 400/750.

Geforce4ti4200
05-26-03, 10:28 PM
you could always keep that mx card and get a new cpu instead, itll help you alot more in low res. a new video card is for high res gaming. If I didnt care about 1600x1200 gaming I would still be using my geforce2 mx400