US to consider destabilizing Iran ?

[Sazar]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/25/iran.us/index.html

right... why exactly is this a necessity ?

and how will this possibly do anything but increase security concerns for our nation..

bush is strengthening the evidence to the fact that I seriously feel he is using war as a means to bring himself back to power in the next election...

can we really afford a non-stop war ? one nation after the next after the next... ?

at this rate there will be no one else to fight by the time the next elections roll around...

/me considers how much this may cost :(

[LORD-eX-Bu]

can we really afford a non-stop war?

since when did the war on terror ever stop?

the Iranian government is probably the largest sponsor of terrorist groups in the world, nobody is talking about a full out war, heck, nobody is even talking war with the Iranians. What is happening in Iran is that the population has become disillusioned from its Islamic government, don't beleive me? go out and ask an Iranian what he/she thinks of the Mullahs, then ask them what they think of Americans(HINT:probably the most pro-American people in the region outside of Israel and Kuwait). The people are going to take down the government one way or another, the US government is just having a high level meeting to see if there is a way to expedite the process or what paths would be taken when(not if) the people of Iran take matters into their own hands.

Just like Afghanistan, Al Qaeda is operating inside of Tehran and other Iranian cities. Many Al Qaeda and Taliban fellas ran away into Iran, some have been "returned" but not much is going on. The mullahs have expelled UN weapons inspectors many times, interfered with and sent forces that have engaged coalition troops inside of Iraq, don't even get me started on their human rights violations:rofl We have already cut off diplomatic ties with them(once again) so hey, its up in the air whats gonna happen:lol:

[anxdiety]

How many times can someone stick their nose into others business before it gets bit??? To me that is just what the states are doing in the ME. Let bush keep going until North Korea launches a nuke and starts and ends ww4. Because we all know the retaliation to something like that would be the utmost.

[1stFlight]

This is gettting silly, first Afghanistan which was justifiable but we didn't even finish the job there, we just leaped to Iraq

Iraq, which wasn't never a pressing threat Bush just made it up. For any doubters, come folks admit it, it's been over a month still no evidence of WMD's, nothing, and now we having their people in prison, and completely unfettered access. Bush sold the nation a line, and too many bought it.

Now with the same evdience we're looking at Iran??? Our track record is piss poor so far, didn't anyone in the Bush admin learn to fix the first problem, BEFORE you move on to 2 and 3???

Terrorism hasn't always existed and such it has a cause, we need to addess that cause before it really gets out of hand.

[2fast4u]

once again bu takes points that are merely speculation or claims from the bush administration for granted and uses them to argue. and im not talking about the human rights violations.

remember, if its on tv it must be true (tm)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
since when did the war on terror ever stop?

the Iranian government is probably the largest sponsor of terrorist groups in the world, nobody is talking about a full out war, heck, nobody is even talking war with the Iranians. What is happening in Iran is that the population has become disillusioned from its Islamic government, don't beleive me? go out and ask an Iranian what he/she thinks of the Mullahs, then ask them what they think of Americans(HINT:probably the most pro-American people in the region outside of Israel and Kuwait). The people are going to take down the government one way or another, the US government is just having a high level meeting to see if there is a way to expedite the process or what paths would be taken when(not if) the people of Iran take matters into their own hands.

Just like Afghanistan, Al Qaeda is operating inside of Tehran and other Iranian cities. Many Al Qaeda and Taliban fellas ran away into Iran, some have been "returned" but not much is going on. The mullahs have expelled UN weapons inspectors many times, interfered with and sent forces that have engaged coalition troops inside of Iraq, don't even get me started on their human rights violations:rofl We have already cut off diplomatic ties with them(once again) so hey, its up in the air whats gonna happen:lol:

iran was a perfectly normal place with plenty of freedoms before we stuck our noses in there the first time...

remember ?

the war on terror remains a buzzword above all else since our troops are only actively engaged in one place... afghanistan...

iraq was not a war on terror... regardless of what some politicians say it was... and we have yet to see any justifiable reasons for THAT war... now we move to iran where there is a an elected person who runs most things (khatami) and he is not elected the way saddam was... he is popularly elected...

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by Sazar
iran was a perfectly normal place with plenty of freedoms before we stuck our noses in there the first time...

remember ?

who could forget the sha. he was a man of honour alright.

[Riptide]

3000 people are dead and buried right now and some sissy cowards want to start talking about how we should just keep our "noses out of it". What a pathetic bunch they are. If a ship is sinking I vote we throw them off first and turn 'em into chum. They'd be the first ones to drag us down by the keel if we don't.

Pathetic. What a bunch of flotsam.

Times like this are when you find out who your real allies are.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Riptide
3000 people are dead and buried right now and some sissy cowards want to start talking about how we should just keep our "noses out of it". What a pathetic bunch they are. If a ship is sinking I vote we throw them off first and turn 'em into chum. They'd be the first ones to drag us down by the keel if we don't.

Pathetic. What a bunch of flotsam.

Times like this are when you find out who your real allies are.

yes.. fine... they were terrorists... not from a particular country..

remember the many who died in oklahoma... did you see the us start bombing itself over that terrorist act ?

it is ridiculous to hold a COUNTRY accountable for the actions of a few...

besides... iraq had nothing to do with al qaeda... and the evidence being thrown out now does not appear solid..

attacking a country on the basis of allegations especially in light of the situations that exist does not make it any safer for us or the rest of the world...

the more fuel given to people who conjure up vioelent acts against humanity... the grander the scale..

what will it take to tone down the rhetoric ? a nuke going off in times square during new years ?

if a ship is sinking... we all go down together or help each other survive... you don't go round poking more holes in the ship to make it sink faster...

[vampireuk]

My country is your main allie and I disagree with war:p

[Sazar]

Originally posted by vampireuk
My country is your main allie and I disagree with war:p

you say that after we have all seen mr flibble @ work ?

lol... you are one courageous man... :D

[Riptide]

Originally posted by Sazar
yes.. fine... they were terrorists... not from a particular country..
remember the many who died in oklahoma... did you see the us start bombing itself over that terrorist act ? it is ridiculous to hold a COUNTRY accountable for the actions of a few...

besides... iraq had nothing to do with al qaeda... and the evidence being thrown out now does not appear solid..

attacking a country on the basis of allegations especially in light of the situations that exist does not make it any safer for us or the rest of the world...

the more fuel given to people who conjure up vioelent acts against humanity... the grander the scale..
what will it take to tone down the rhetoric ? a nuke going off in times square during new years ?
if a ship is sinking... we all go down together or help each other survive... you don't go round poking more holes in the ship to make it sink faster...
Oh yes, I'll tell mention what is ridiculous. Any attempt to draw some sort of logical conclusion from anything that starts of with a country bombing it's own soil. People that would say such things are of questionable mind. Flotsam, I tell you! :eek:

And I'm sure that Saddam was such a kind, gentle ruler that we weren't doing them a favor getting rid of him.
Pascifistic nonsense pure and simple. That is what we are hearing now. Noone seems to want to learn from history that pascifism does not usually pay off.

It would be nieve (IMHO) to think that their government (Iran) hasn't at least in some way helped the cause of terrorism.:rolleyes:

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by Riptide
It would be nieve (IMHO) to think that their government (Iran) hasn't at least in some way helped the cause of terrorism.:rolleyes:

yeah, thats your reason for anything isnt it? :rolleyes: "we dont know but wont you just believe us cuz we re the good guys?". if there aint proof should i trust my feelings or what? and i dont believe in god either.

[Riptide]

Originally posted by 2fast4u
yeah, thats your reason for anything isnt it? :rolleyes: "we dont know but wont you just believe us cuz we re the good guys?". if there aint proof should i trust my feelings or what? and i dont believe in god either.

Oh, I'm certain it's some sort of sinister conspiracy by that evil government of ours to dominate the world. After all, they probably think we're fighting lex luthor or something huh?

And if you don't believe in God, I'm sure you would have a wonderful time living in that society.

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by Riptide
Oh, I'm certain it's some sort of sinister conspiracy by that evil government of ours to dominate the world. After all, they probably think we're fighting lex luthor or something huh?

what the hell are you talking about?

[Riptide]

Originally posted by 2fast4u
what the hell are you talking about?

If they are thinking of destabilizing the Iranian government, they probably have good reasons. It's not a far cry to be suspicious that the government over there would be aiding al qaeda.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Riptide
Oh yes, I'll tell mention what is ridiculous. Any attempt to draw some sort of logical conclusion from anything that starts of with a country bombing it's own soil. People that would say such things are of questionable mind. Flotsam, I tell you! :eek:

And I'm sure that Saddam was such a kind, gentle ruler that we weren't doing them a favor getting rid of him.
Pascifistic nonsense pure and simple. That is what we are hearing now. Noone seems to want to learn from history that pascifism does not usually pay off.

It would be nieve (IMHO) to think that their government (Iran) hasn't at least in some way helped the cause of terrorism.:rolleyes:

we have already had a huge thread on topics such as what you have brought up and we have already looked @ the historical records...

the US is not exactly scot free so implying that we are doing people a favor is... how do you say ? flotsam ?

no one seems to realise through history that where the US has decided to dable its fingers has usually turned out to be an unstable nation when the US was done dabbling... whereas prior to the dabbling it was a reasonably well run system..

iraq for example... saddam was well supported by the US during the Iran/Iraq war and no efforts were made @ the time to disuade him from the activities that he engaged in (ie kurdish extermination to some degree from the early days)

it is naive to think that iran has not helped terrorism... no doubt... but our own support should not be overlooked and neither should the implication that threatening and using force against nations weaker than oneself will lead to a better world...

to say peace has never lead to anything positive is pure 'flotsam' since it is only during a time of war that suffering comes about..

and to go into war v/s iran is ridiculous @ this point in time...

the government doesn't want to dominate the world but it does seem that war seems to be the main political agenda @ the time..

w/o war... re-election may not be so easy... but with war == high profile and high ratings especially when one is doing well...

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Riptide
If they are thinking of destabilizing the Iranian government, they probably have good reasons. It's not a far cry to be suspicious that the government over there would be aiding al qaeda.

I am sure the reasons are as good as the ones used to attack iraq ?

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by Riptide
If they are thinking of destabilizing the Iranian government, they probably have good reasons. It's not a far cry to be suspicious that the government over there would be aiding al qaeda.

well that depends on the side you look at it. its not a far cry that the us government would be willing to bring down a few more countries to expand its power. just like iraq supposedly had al queaida links .. there just aint no proof which leads us to where we began.

[1stFlight]

In other words, sit back relax and enjoy the fluff the Bush admin is spewing, don't bother to actually think about it for yourself.

Sorry, can't do that, they've blown their crediblity. Not that I ever gave them any anyhow.

Btw, where were those Al Queda cells supposedly operating out of Iraq? Oh wait, they didn't exist either....

Originally posted by Riptide
If they are thinking of destabilizing the Iranian government, they probably have good reasons. It's not a far cry to be suspicious that the government over there would be aiding al qaeda.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
In other words, sit back relax and enjoy the fluff the Bush admin is spewing, don't bother to actually think about it for yourself.

Sorry, can't do that, they've blown their crediblity. Not that I ever gave them any anyhow.

Btw, where were those Al Queda cells supposedly operating out of Iraq? Oh wait, they didn't exist either....

the only reason the cells appear to have been mentioned was to somehow link iraq to terrorism... hence being a part of the global war on terrorism rather than it being a war...supposedly... for our national security... which has nothing to do with terrorism when it involves a COUNTRY...

iran though does have stronger ties with terrorist factions merely by virtue of HAVING ties...

I don't think one can deny that... but to like iran with the 9/11 events and what not... I dunno about that..

the peoples in that travesty were US funded and trained to an extent and trained others in afghanistan.. most of the people were saudi nationals... and their leader or most public figure is osama bin laden... who is also saudi... even though the country now wants nothing more to do with him...

btw... how does destabilizing something lead to stability ?

[1stFlight]

In the same sense we "stablized" Iraq, Afghanistan and <insert Central American nation here>.

Originally posted by Sazar

btw... how does destabilizing something lead to stability ?

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Sazar
I am sure the reasons are as good as the ones used to attack iraq ?

exactly son, now you're getting it:thumbsup:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
<insert Central American nation here>.

try me, I've lived in all of them, seen what goes on, have you been there?:o

[1stFlight]

Not a requirement, I've seen what our wonderful government has done down there and the people it's taught how.

If they were bad off before, that was there problem, us adding to it makes it our fault.

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
try me, I've lived in all of them, seen what goes on, have you been there?:o