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View Full Version : FX 5900 Ultra (NV35) is good but don't you expect it to be better ?


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mikechai
05-26-03, 09:53 PM
Based on the initial reviews, the NV35 is certainly a very good card. But don't you think it should be better?

1. It is just a revised NV30 with 256bit memory bus and dustbuster removed.
2. It is what the NV30 could have been.
3. It's performance is just a tad bit better than a Radeon 9800 Pro.
4. It's pixel shader performance is not better than a R350.

StealthHawk
05-26-03, 10:01 PM
I thought nvidia would improve its shading performance more. They claim it is 2x as fast as NV30, but it really is only ~20% faster clock for clock than NV30. Couple that with the clock speed decrease from NV30 tro NV35, and NV35 is only ~10% in shader ops than NV30 is.

nvidia's 4x FSAA performance exceeds my expectations. I didn't think it would be quite so fast.

GlowStick
05-26-03, 10:04 PM
Its just on track, they just need to release hgiher clocked versions rapidly. Maybe thats what Gainward is planning.

mikechai
05-26-03, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Its just on track, they just need to release hgiher clocked versions rapidly. Maybe thats what Gainward is planning.

Yes, the NV35 has ample enough bandwidth, just lacking in core speed IMHO.

The Baron
05-26-03, 10:11 PM
Well... say what you will, the NV35 fits in perfectly with the strategy of multiple refreshes of the same core chipset. It's got ample headroom but it's no slouch right now at all.

And I'm glad it doesn't demolish the R9800 Pro either... if it did, we'd be back to all buynig NVIDIA cards, except for those sadomasochists who bought early ATI cards (myself included! :D ).

5150 Joker
05-26-03, 11:00 PM
Quite honestly, I'm disappointed. It barely beats the 9800 pro and in some cases loses. The AA modes still leave a lot to be desired and the price isn't exactly the best. I was looking forward to selling my 9700 pro and trying out another nVidia card again just to have something different but it appears I'll be w/the 9700 pro well into to the summer and possibly Christmas time when R420 comes out.

ChrisRay
05-26-03, 11:22 PM
nvidia's 4x FSAA performance exceeds my expectations. I didn't think it would be quite so fast

Really? This is in fact what disapointed me the most. More So the implementation of it rather.

bkswaney
05-26-03, 11:52 PM
After using a NV30 it's what I knew it would be. :)

If the NV30 had a 256bit bus it would blow the NV35 away.
When they raise the clock up to 525+ and add 1Ghz+ memory
it will perform much better.

But the slow shader speed just plain suxs.
Can anything be done in the driver department
on shader speed? I sure hope so.
If it had 9800 shader performance it would be #1.

Dean_RW
05-26-03, 11:58 PM
You can't expect miracles to happen overnight. I think this is a fine card considering it came so soon after the nv30 fiasco. Even if its slightly slower in some games than the 9800 pro at high quality settings, they are on the right track again. Nvidia did fall down but they are getting back on their feet again. I predict by their next release they will hang very evenly with ATI's next card IQ wise and Nvidia has always kicked ass when it comes to speed.

mikechai
05-27-03, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Really? This is in fact what disapointed me the most. More So the implementation of it rather.

How so? Its FSAA performance is very much faster than NV30.
However the algorithm is not as good as R3x0 implementation.

bkswaney
05-27-03, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Dean_RW
You can't expect miracles to happen overnight. I think this is a fine card considering it came so soon after the nv30 fiasco. Even if its slightly slower in some games than the 9800 pro at high quality settings, they are on the right track again. Nvidia did fall down but they are getting back on their feet again. I predict by their next release they will hang very evenly with ATI's next card IQ wise and Nvidia has always kicked ass when it comes to speed.

I agree.... This is a fine turn around for NV and fast doing it.
If they can get the 35 to market now they will be doing good.
The IQ on the NV30 is just as good as my 9700 was.
NV's next card should rock. I'm sure they r working on shader's and all for the next chip.
I might go ahead and get a NV35, Just to water cool it and see what it can really do. ;)
Tho my 5800ultra will do just fine for some time to come. :dance:

U can bet nvidia is working on something to :kill: ati's next card.

StealthHawk
05-27-03, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Really? This is in fact what disapointed me the most. More So the implementation of it rather.

Well, I was hoping that they might switch the 4x FSAA sampling pattern to something better, but I knew they wouldn't.

I thought 4x FSAA speed would be a little slower than what NV35 actually was capable of. So, yes, that surprised me. Although I still think 4x FSAA is not worth it on nvidia cards yet, in terms of performance hit versus actual improvement in quality over 2x FSAA. Better than nothing though.

micron
05-27-03, 01:11 AM
Nvidia:surrender :rw: ATi

Sazar
05-27-03, 01:12 AM
I am still trying to understand what the whole deal was with the nv30 and 128 bit memory bus with ddr2...

I mean the r350 is 256bit bus and ddr2 (for the new 256 mb version)

anyone care to fill me in on this?

Browndog
05-27-03, 01:13 AM
Its good enough to get the performance lead now and still leaves plenty of room for O?C DDRII ram ect, just as a refresh.
Then NV40 and onwards.
I cant wait to get my hands on one.
:)

mikechai
05-27-03, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Sazar
I am still trying to understand what the whole deal was with the nv30 and 128 bit memory bus with ddr2...

I mean the r350 is 256bit bus and ddr2 (for the new 256 mb version)

anyone care to fill me in on this?


Your answer is in Anandtech's FX 5900 ultra review.

GlowStick
05-27-03, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Sazar
I am still trying to understand what the whole deal was with the nv30 and 128 bit memory bus with ddr2...

I mean the r350 is 256bit bus and ddr2 (for the new 256 mb version)

anyone care to fill me in on this?

Well, the bus and the memory type are not really important for peformance. But they are used by marketing as buzzwords. But what it really comes down to is the memroy bandwith and the responce time, more bandwith + lower responce time = better.

Sazar
05-27-03, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by mikechai
Your answer is in Anandtech's FX 5900 ultra review.

cheers... for others interested...

NVIDIA originally thought that BGA memory and flip-chip packaging technology would not be ready for prime time by NV30's introduction date and thus outfitted the original chip with no more than a 128-bit wide memory interface

I could have sworn the consensus was that ddr2 NEEDED 128 memory bus... readng some of the other posts online... as well as reading the spec sheet from samsungs website concerning their ddr2 memory chips...

obviously this does not appear to be the case :)

zakelwe
05-27-03, 01:52 AM
The nv35 is good but I think I'll make my GF4 go on a bit longer and see what happens with nv40 and or Ati's offering. The reason being that although the nv35 seems good I would like my next purchase to have overhead with Doom III / Ut2004 engined games and I am not quite sure if the nv35 has any overhead.

Regards

Andy

mikechai
05-27-03, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by zakelwe
The nv35 is good but I think I'll make my GF4 go on a bit longer and see what happens with nv40 and or Ati's offering. The reason being that although the nv35 seems good I would like my next purchase to have overhead with Doom III / Ut2004 engined games and I am not quite sure if the nv35 has any overhead.

Regards

Andy

Even my GF2 GTS can hold on until NV40, your GF4 should hold you on at least until NV45 ....
;)

bkswaney
05-27-03, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by mikechai
Even my GF2 GTS can hold on until NV40, your GF4 should hold you on at least until NV45 ....
;)

My 5800ultra is now outdated so I'll get a NV35 to do me till the NV40. :naughty: :nana:

mikechai
05-27-03, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
My 5800ultra is now outdated so I'll get a NV35 to do me till the NV40. :naughty: :nana:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

ChrisRay
05-27-03, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Well, I was hoping that they might switch the 4x FSAA sampling pattern to something better, but I knew they wouldn't.

I thought 4x FSAA speed would be a little slower than what NV35 actually was capable of. So, yes, that surprised me. Although I still think 4x FSAA is not worth it on nvidia cards yet, in terms of performance hit versus actual improvement in quality over 2x FSAA. Better than nothing though.


I see your point, I dunno I expected 4x to be less than what 2x was like on a Geforce 4 so long ago. I dunno why but I anticipated the Anti Aliasing increase in performance. yet not Quality.


However what did surprise me was the AF quality increase with almost no performance loss. This "very" much surprised me due to the way the cards were looking before, i honestly expected it to be a hardware issue and not a "driver" issue as Nvidia claimed.

So in some way that actually restored alot of my lost faith in Nvidia

nVidi0t
05-27-03, 08:18 AM
I'm happy with the performance increase and the problems fixed with the NV35, I'm just not happy with nVidia's attitude that's come along with it.

Hanners
05-27-03, 09:04 AM
It's what I expected - It's a very good card, and I expected it to be a very good card. :D