Volts front page "news"

[PreservedSwine]

re: ATI is cheating

Is it just me, or is fanboism bleeding into even news posts? One thing to print news, another to simply make it up. I would have hoped for a bit more integrity, maybe VOLT will see this type of "news post" does more harm to the site than good for his favorite graphics card company....

Just my .0000000000000000000002

[Sazar]

Originally posted by PreservedSwine
re: ATI is cheating

Is it just me, or is fanboism bleeding into even news posts? One thing to print news, another to simply make it up. I would have hoped for a bit more integrity, maybe VOLT will see this type of "news post" does more harm to the site than good for his favorite graphics card company....

Just my .0000000000000000000002

the xbit article was well and true since it is there..

the additional stuff... well the stuff AFTER the quote is a little OTT but he is the supermod... and its his perogative as a newsposter...

[volt]

I'm entitled to express my own feelings am I ? Great...

[Sazar]

Originally posted by volt
I'm entitled to express my own feelings am I ? Great...

I just defended you m8 :D

and yes.. you are... :)

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by volt
I'm entitled to express my own feelings am I ? Great...

Responsibly, sure... that's the difference between an editiorial and a simple news post. As a writer, columns that delve into your personal feelings should be included in an editorial column. Think of it if the news you were watching on tv differed 100% from your own views...since you simply want to catch the news w/out the spin, are you endagering the news from their freedom to express their own feelings?

As a news post, news is all that's needed. If you have an opinion, and apparantly you have a strong one in this case, feel free to write a column...

Do you see the difference, and why, as a source of legitemate information, you bear a journalistic responsibility to keep your personal opinions from tainting the news?

~Swine

[Monolyth]

Both companies admitted to "cheating" and after reading the whole statement from ATI (4 days ago) they had optimized certain shader portions of their drivers, not just for 3DMark2K3, but also for any game that uses those shaders.

I don't believe that your comment was fair to ATI, who merely tweaked their drivers for an additional 1.9% change in performance, whilst Nvidia tweaked theirs to 'detect' 2K3 and provide over 20% boost in performance by using C++ workarounds. 1.9% is miniscule, 20% is blatant.

Now I know this site is called "nV News", but had always considered it a place where things weren't so "fanboyish". You are entitled to your opinions volt, but I think your statement will give n00bs that don't necessarily understand the history of both companies a false impression of the situation. News/rumors online are an imperfect business and can cause many people to get pretty enraged over things that they really have no control over.

ATI has done alot to get past their days of being "plagued" by bad drivers, I commend ATI for their hard work, and I believe that nVidia needs to start waking up to the fact that they have some real competition now.

I personally cannot wait for NV40 vs. R400, will be interesting to see what the companies pull out of their hats, lets just hope its not "driver cheats".

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by PreservedSwine
re: ATI is cheating

Is it just me, or is fanboism bleeding into even news posts? One thing to print news, another to simply make it up. I would have hoped for a bit more integrity, maybe VOLT will see this type of "news post" does more harm to the site than good for his favorite graphics card company....

Just my .0000000000000000000002

Read the news at x-bit. They are the ones that said ATI admitted to cheating. I'm sure the ATI rep didn't use that word.

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
Read the news at x-bit. They are the ones that said ATI admitted to cheating. I'm sure the ATI rep didn't use that word.

That's correct, ATI has been quite frank and open. They certainly never admitted to cheating, did they?

Is it cheating? Largely, that depends on the definition of cheating....My point is exactly that- print the news. Some will see it as "cheating" and some will see it as "optimizing." Leaving that distinction up to the reader is the responsible thing to do.

[ChrisW]

Your 'news' post was designed to provoke people, nothing less. Let's hope you don't start bitching about all the flame posts this will cause. By the way, ATI admitted to 'optimizing' their drivers not cheating. I would hardly call a 1.9% gain an attempt to cheat "to improve their 3DMark03 scores". They said they will remove this from their drivers because some people may look at it as a cheat. You have completely taken their comments out of context just to start a flame post. Did nVidia demand this of your site?

[ChrisW]

Originally posted by Monolyth
I think your statement will give n00bs that don't necessarily understand the history of both companies a false impression of the situation.
I think that is the entire reason for this post. It's designed to sell more nVidia cards. It's called propaganda.

[Monolyth]

Originally posted by ChrisW
Your 'news' post was designed to provoke people, nothing less. Let's hope you don't start bitching about all the flame posts this will cause.

Thus far this post has remained pretty calm, I think were all a little fed up with companies (both nVidia and ATI) doing this kind of crap. We pay good money for the products they make, only to hear that the company we just bought it from has been cheating on the drivers for it...

Whatever happened to companies with some simple common sense and integrity? *Sigh* Sorry, I'm just a little miffed at both companies for doing things without even telling anyone. How about we start seeing some detailed changelogs? Sooo many "software" developers release detailed changelogs that make your changelogs look like "Go Dog Go". Any sensible developer releases changelogs even if it is internal only, I would certainly think companies as large as ATI and Nvidia would have such documents.

PS - ATI has been releasing psuedo-changelogs with their latest CAT drivers, I have yet to see even a pseudo-changelog from nVidia.

[gRoUnD]

Propaganda, propaganda. I fully agree with Preserved Swine, been checking nVnews since more than 3 years for news, i have NEVER EVER found such a biased POS news. You haven´t learned much from history volt, have you ? Look at nazi germany or russian propaganda and where it lead to. Concentrate on the facts, think and THEN maybe add an intelligent personal comment. Don´t keep going on like that, trust me, you will regret it.

[ChrisW]

Looks like Volt is on a roll now. It seems the goal is to use quotes from nVidia fanboys around the net to make ATI look bad and make nVidia actually look good for cheating. Using a qoute that praises nVidia for cheating 'the right way'.... :rolleyes:

[ChrisW]

Originally posted by Monolyth
Thus far this post has remained pretty calm, I think were all a little fed up with companies (both nVidia and ATI) doing this kind of crap. We pay good money for the products they make, only to hear that the company we just bought it from has been cheating on the drivers for it...

Whatever happened to companies with some simple common sense and integrity? *Sigh* Sorry, I'm just a little miffed at both companies for doing things without even telling anyone. How about we start seeing some detailed changelogs? Sooo many "software" developers release detailed changelogs that make your changelogs look like "Go Dog Go". Any sensible developer releases changelogs even if it is internal only, I would certainly think companies as large as ATI and Nvidia would have such documents.

PS - ATI has been releasing psuedo-changelogs with their latest CAT drivers, I have yet to see even a pseudo-changelog from nVidia.
That is because all the flame posts will either be deleted or moved to this forum, where nobody reads the posts.

[volt]

Originally posted by ChrisW
Looks like Volt is on a roll now. It seems the goal is to use quotes from nVidia fanboys around the net to make ATI look bad and make nVidia actually look good for cheating. Using a qoute that praises nVidia for cheating 'the right way'.... :rolleyes:

For the bigger part of it you should not blame FutureMark for this though, but blame the parties that started cheating.

[Monolyth]

Speaking of history, I'm sure everyone remembers the Quake 3 / Quack 3 optimizations that ATI did, of course that was back in the 8500 days.

And volt for god sakes your only fanning the flames in here, if you really want to start a cool flame war atleast make it about something that we all care about...like...laffy taffy or something. Atleast you can eat that, cause thus far I can't swallow all the Anti-ATI crap going around, when nVidia was the one that truly cheated. ATI had zero...ZERO "3DMark2K3 specific" code, so don't try to sell me on the point that ATI "cheated", I had been a serious fanboy of nVidia and AMD for a long time, now that I'm running ATI and Intel, I will tell you it's stupid choosing sides.

[gRoUnD]

No-one blames Futuremark! At least i blame you for handling things wrong and playing in a childish way with a well-established news page!

[ChrisW]

Originally posted by volt
For the bigger part of it you should not blame FutureMark for this though, but blame the parties that started cheating.
Why would I blame Futuremark? They are the people that has a major graphics card company (nVidia) trying to destroy their product. I feel sorry for those guys. How would you like it is some company launched a strategic campaign or misinformation and propaganda to try to destroy your company just because they would not optimize for them?

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by PreservedSwine
That's correct, ATI has been quite frank and open. They certainly never admitted to cheating, did they?

Is it cheating? Largely, that depends on the definition of cheating....My point is exactly that- print the news. Some will see it as "cheating" and some will see it as "optimizing." Leaving that distinction up to the reader is the responsible thing to do.

As I pointed out...the x-bit article says that "ATI admitted they cheated" or something like that. Volt was posting about the x-bit article, and he used the same words as they did.

Is that wrong? No. Is it irresponsible? Yes. Certainly I think x-bit is misrepresenting the news. But I think Volt is accurately representing x-bit's news.

The question is, "was this the right thing to do in this situation?" That is what the debate is about.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
As I pointed out...the x-bit article says that "ATI admitted they cheated" or something like that. Volt was posting about the x-bit article, and he used the same words as they did.

Is that wrong? No. Is it irresponsible? Yes. Certainly I think x-bit is misrepresenting the news. But I think Volt is accurately representing x-bit's news.

The question is, "was this the right thing to do in this situation?" That is what the debate is about.

the debate is about the extra wording volt included in the news post... :)

specifically

Ahh, the moment I was waiting for *sarcastic laughter*. Looks like ATI admitted they "optimized" their drivers to achive higher scores in 3DMark03 *wink wink*

and

Yea right, I find that hard to believe somehow

volt did accurately represent the news but his additional text is what was raised as perhaps not being required...

[Monolyth]

As far as the Guru3D post...all i got to say:

<inappropriate>

Working on ATI at the moment to be fair.

[DaveW]

This is why I don't post news anymore. The moment you post anything vaguely interesting you get spammed with criticism.

Let volt have his opinion, nobody says you have to agree with it, and nobody says a news posting without opinion has to be agreeable to everyone (there is no such thing).

News without any sort of opinion or comment from the poster is just boring to read, like its written by a google search engine.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by DaveW
This is why I don't post news anymore. The moment you post anything vaguely interesting you get spammed with criticism.

Let volt have his opinion, nobody says you have to agree with it, and nobody says a news posting without opinion has to be agreeable to everyone (there is no such thing).

News without any sort of opinion or comment from the poster is just boring to read, like its written by a google search engine.

I think thats what Pswine was stating though... feel free to post one's opinions with the article concerned.. but do so in a column or some other section... news is basically for the reader to read...

w/o the extra parts volt put out there... this discussion would not be about volt... which unfortunately it has become... but rather about the article itself..

btw posting news is fun :) it is something I enjoy doing (not on a fulltime basis though) and any criticism received (if warranted) ... well I just have to learn from it and move on...

[MUYA]

whoops - Edited
Were you refering to nV and because they were caught doing a few things wrong? I would suggest you hide all your traces to your computer, just in case nV come in with their address snifers followed by a whole lotta lawyers.
Please ppl calm down.

Nevermind- Pic has been taken down

[digitalwanderer]

Heck, if I wanted un-biased news reporting I'd go somewhere else...I really do come here just because of the pro-nVidia slant.

Besides, how would we have any fun with all of nVidia's recent fiascos if'n we didn't have some faithful fans to kick around? ;)