U.S. Soldiers Find Gold, Still No WMD's

[1stFlight]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/05/27/sprj.irq.iraq.gold/index.html

Amazing the things we can find, even more amazing are the things we can't. What is this 2 months now?? No more excuses, anyone who disparaged the U.N. Inspectors owes them one h#ll of an apology.

[2fast4u]

word

[Riptide]

Just because they haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't there somewhere. It's a big country. It will take time. They've already found a couple of probable mobile labs.

This much I will say. I was listening to O'Reilley yesterday on the radio and he made a good point, IMHO. The administration needs to be a little more open about what they know. We don't need details, anything that would compromise national security per se. But they could at least give us a little general information. They have not been really forthcoming. Does that mean they are "hiding" something? Not sure, it's hard to say for certain. You would think the CIA knows something at this point about what happened to the weapons that were not accounted for.

I'm sure there will be some sort of final statement on this sooner or later.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Riptide
Just because they haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't there somewhere. It's a big country. It will take time. They've already found a couple of probable mobile labs.

This much I will say. I was listening to O'Reilley yesterday on the radio and he made a good point, IMHO. The administration needs to be a little more open about what they know. We don't need details, anything that would compromise national security per se. But they could at least give us a little general information. They have not been really forthcoming. Does that mean they are "hiding" something? Not sure, it's hard to say for certain. You would think the CIA knows something at this point about what happened to the weapons that were not accounted for.

I'm sure there will be some sort of final statement on this sooner or later.

mobile labs were not for WMD's... at least not the ones found thus far...

they have been for various other reasons... ie chemical testing (near an oil plant this is logical and tests showed nothing related to chemical weapons... no traces.. but rather pesticides/other 'regular' chemicals)

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Sazar
mobile labs were not for WMD's... at least not the ones found thus far...

they have been for various other reasons... ie chemical testing (near an oil plant this is logical and tests showed nothing related to chemical weapons... no traces.. but rather pesticides/other 'regular' chemicals)

They never said they were not chemical weapons labs either. They said they had no use other than that.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by UDawg71
They never said they were not chemical weapons labs either. They said they had no use other than that.

:)

all tests == negative for chemical weapons... ergo... not chemical weapons lab...

heck I could go to california and turn the Jelly Belly factory into a chemical weapons plant as well you know :)

would just need a few tweaks here and there...

[Lucien1964]

Who cares!!!!The bastard is gone..................................cya Saddam.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Lucien1964
Who cares!!!!The bastard is gone..................................cya Saddam.

war was because of supposed WMD's... thats why we should CARE :)

if people start doing everything based on allegations and do not expect to find any supporting arguments @ the end of the day... civilized soceity and accountability go out the window :)

btw.. saddam is gone... whats happening in iraq now ?

in 2 months there is not even a semblance of a working government...

[1stFlight]

Then explain how chemical weapons that were supposed to be ready in 45 minutes or less on the battelfield could be stashed away so effectively. So effectively, that haven't been found in 2 months of searching with thousands of searchers, Iraq isn't that big.

I doubt the Bush admin is going say
A) Oopps, sorry we lied; ala Clinton
or
B) Oopps, sorry we were wrong

Its more likely they'll plant something, talk about your unfettered access.

I'm thinking the pro-war guys are running out of arguements.

Originally posted by Riptide
Just because they haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't there somewhere. It's a big country. It will take time. They've already found a couple of probable mobile labs.

This much I will say. I was listening to O'Reilley yesterday on the radio and he made a good point, IMHO. The administration needs to be a little more open about what they know. We don't need details, anything that would compromise national security per se. But they could at least give us a little general information. They have not been really forthcoming. Does that mean they are "hiding" something? Not sure, it's hard to say for certain. You would think the CIA knows something at this point about what happened to the weapons that were not accounted for.

I'm sure there will be some sort of final statement on this sooner or later.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Then explain how chemical weapons that were supposed to be ready in 45 minutes or less on the battelfield could be stashed away so effectively. So effectively, that haven't been found in 2 months of searching with thousands of searchers, Iraq isn't that big.

I doubt the Bush admin is going say
A) Oopps, sorry we lied; ala Clinton
or
B) Oopps, sorry we were wrong

Its more likely they'll plant something, talk about your unfettered access.

I'm thinking the pro-war guys are running out of arguements.

you do realise most weapons inspectors the US sent over to iraq have been recalled right ? I am assuming this is because of a change in policy... ie lets not find the wmd's... lets just assume they are there...

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Sazar
:)

all tests == negative for chemical weapons... ergo... not chemical weapons lab...

heck I could go to california and turn the Jelly Belly factory into a chemical weapons plant as well you know :)

would just need a few tweaks here and there...

No they found a heavy cleaning agent on both truck, ergo heavy cleaning. I did not say there were or were not. I merely said they had no use other than. I am not in denial. We haven't found any WMD. This doesn't mea we wont or will. The fact remains that Iraq had a large WMD system and it is not there now. Where did it go? Iraq declaired they had the weapons in the early 90's. They
say they distroyed them but we have not found any dump sites. So where are the dump sites? You can go to South Africa today and find the dump sites from the WMD they had and distroyed. Where are they in Iraq? After admitting they had WMD and after not finding them that would me they are some where right or do you still deny they have them. They are some where and not knowing is even more scary.

Again, where are the dump sites.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by UDawg71
No they found a heavy cleaning agent on both truck, ergo heavy cleaning. I did not say there were or were not. I merely said they had no use other than. I am not in denial. We haven't found any WMD. This doesn't mea we wont or will. The fact remains that Iraq had a large WMD system and it is not there now. Where did it go? Iraq declaired they had the weapons in the early 90's. They
say they distroyed them but we have not found any dump sites. So where are the dump sites? You can go to South Africa today and find the dump sites from the WMD they had and distroyed. Where are they in Iraq? After admitting they had WMD and after not finding them that would me they are some where right or do you still deny they have them. They are some where and not knowing is even more scary.

Again, where are the dump sites.

considering the 'concrete' evidence presented to the UN and other nations on a more individual basis by both the US and the british... it is extremely disconcerting not to see anything found... if there was so much information... why is there no proof ?

the burden of proof should rest on the accusers... not the accused... which is what I have stated from the start... even before the war started :)

it is upto the US to find the weapons... and the indications are not good m8... considering that so many weapons inspectors have been pulled OUT of iraq... this does not look to me to be a sign of a nation looking for evidence...

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Sazar
considering the 'concrete' evidence presented to the UN and other nations on a more individual basis by both the US and the british... it is extremely disconcerting not to see anything found... if there was so much information... why is there no proof ?

the burden of proof should rest on the accusers... not the accused... which is what I have stated from the start... even before the war started :)

it is upto the US to find the weapons... and the indications are not good m8... considering that so many weapons inspectors have been pulled OUT of iraq... this does not look to me to be a sign of a nation looking for evidence...

No you changed the arument. In the early 90's Iraq them selves declaired they had these weapons that we cannot find. They gave us a list and now nothing on the list can be found. They say they distroyed what you say they never had. You need to find out where you argument whent wrong or do u want me to point it out. ;) Any way they say they distroyed these weapons. Now I ask again. Where are the dump sites? No one can find them. The UN inspectors did not find any. They did how even find a small amount of VX or something like that in the desert but said it was way to small to contain all that Iraq claimed they had.


WHERE ARE THE DUMP SITES!!!! :D :p


BTW it was never on us to find them. It was on Iraq to prove they distroyed them and they never did. Reread for the umteenth time the last resolution.

[1stFlight]

Hmmm, a heavy cleaning agent in a country that distills petroleum products. Imagine that.

However, I'll give you the dump sites. Given that there have been no weapons found, there should at least be one big crater full of them. It's possible Iraq sold them, and the technology to produce them.

Originally posted by UDawg71
No they found a heavy cleaning agent on both truck, ergo heavy cleaning. I did not say there were or were not. I merely said they had no use other than. I am not in denial. We haven't found any WMD. This doesn't mea we wont or will. The fact remains that Iraq had a large WMD system and it is not there now. Where did it go? Iraq declaired they had the weapons in the early 90's. They
say they distroyed them but we have not found any dump sites. So where are the dump sites? You can go to South Africa today and find the dump sites from the WMD they had and distroyed. Where are they in Iraq? After admitting they had WMD and after not finding them that would me they are some where right or do you still deny they have them. They are some where and not knowing is even more scary.

Again, where are the dump sites.

[Sazar]

bleh... we're just gonna keep going round in circles :(

anyhoo... hows' the weather in iraq these days? the beaches any good ?

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Hmmm, a heavy cleaning agent in a country that distills petroleum products. Imagine that.

However, I'll give you the dump sites. Given that there have been no weapons found, there should at least be one big crater full of them. It's possible Iraq sold them, and the technology to produce them.

Look I also gave you that we haven't found any WMD. My only point is and you know this that doesn't mean they are not there. We had proof they were.

We are close on this issue but you just want to hit me over the head on it. :bash: Fair enough. We haven't found any and that is the major reason we whent in. Still it does not mean that they are not any where on this earth.

So I think just a Sazar does, that is this issue is done.............................................. .................................................. ..
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.and I won. :D :p ;) just kiddin'

[Sazar]

Originally posted by UDawg71
Look I also gave you that we haven't found any WMD. My only point is and you know this that doesn't mean they are not there. We had proof they were.

We are close on this issue but you just want to hit me over the head on it. :bash: Fair enough. We haven't found any and that is the major reason we whent in. Still it does not mean that they are not any where on this earth.

So I think just a Sazar does, that is this issue is done.............................................. .................................................. ..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.and I won. :D :p ;) just kiddin'

:rolleyes:

fine fine... whatever you say...

/me bends over and takes it

:eek:

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Sazar
:rolleyes:

fine fine... whatever you say...

/me bends over and takes it

:eek:


eWWW! joo and that shaved nads dude. :eek:

[1stFlight]

If you guys want some alone time, would'ja at least let the rest of us know!!! .... :)

Originally posted by UDawg71
eWWW! joo and that shaved nads dude. :eek:

[PsychoSy]

Here's my contentions...

Some 8-10 months ago, Bush admin starts rumbling about a war with Saddam. They claim to have proof that Saddam has WMDs and bio weapons. Proof was never given to the public. The alledged proof was given to UN Weapons inspectors. They claim it isn't quite a "smoking gun". Bush ignores UN and initiates the war. The Administation defends him repeatedly saying that Saddam has WMDs. Once the war is over, the Administration's story changes from the months-old "we have proof" to "we gotta comb Iraq and find it". Two months later, the story hasn't changed much - just more "gives us more time since Iraq is a big place" type of excuses and the American public is still in the dark.

The Brutal Truth?

Follow this: Let's say I'm a trial judge and the DA wants to try someone for murder. The DA is a well-respected guy and an excellant trial lawyer - one of the best in the nation. Outside the courtroom, we're friends that go golfing once in a while. Suppose the DA's office one day sends me paperwork that wants to try some guy for 1st degree murder. No problem - the arraignment is scheduled. Both lawyers state their case and, despite not having the murder weapon, the DA's logic holds enough water for the case to go to trial as I feel confident that the DA and police will uncover the murder weapon before trial. The trial date arrives...and the DA says, "Your honor, I request that we reschedule this trial for another date..."

"Why, counselor..." I ask.

"We're still investigating and compiling evidence and it's taking longer that we had hoped."

"Well, I've given you 2 months. Isn't that enough time?"

"Yes, your honor, but the county is a big place and the guy moved around alot. We need more time to cover this area and uncover more evidence."

"Exactly what evidence do you lack, counselor...?"

"T-The murder weapon, sir. But we'll find it!"

"You said that two months ago, counselor..."

"Yes, your honor...but I assure you we'll eventually find it."

"Oh, I'm sure you would eventually find it. Better yet, I'm sure if I gave all the trial lawyers all the time in the world, they'd also eventually find the smoking gun they're looking for in every case they bring in front of me. But I don't do that because they are supposed to be prepared for the case, which you obviously are not. But just to flatter me, why should I make an exception just for you...?"

"B-B-Because I'll find it, judge. You know me! Hehe! :D"

If you were the trial judge, what would you do? Would you grant your DA friend here the time he desperately needs to present the case he desires to or would you be pissed off that he's using his rapport as an excuse to dictate the direction of your court room?

Personally, I'd respond to the DA, "You know, you caught me in a really good mood, counselor. I had a nice breakfast, the kids gave me no hassle, and it's just been a great day..." At this point, I'd reach inside my gown for something meanwhile the defense would rise, sputtering with objections. I'd ignore them, stand up with the gavel in hand and say to my DA buddy, "You better have your murder weapon by the time we reconvene...15 minutes from now - plenty of time for ME to smoke this cigarette!!!"

America should respond to the Bush Adminstation in the same fashion.

[Riptide]

Originally posted by Sazar
mobile labs were not for WMD's... at least not the ones found thus far...

they have been for various other reasons... ie chemical testing (near an oil plant this is logical and tests showed nothing related to chemical weapons... no traces.. but rather pesticides/other 'regular' chemicals)
While this was certainly no "smoking gun" like they were hoping to find, it seems highly unlikely to me that they would need mobile facilities for chemical testing with regard to petroleum production.

Given the track record of the tyrannical leader of that country it is not a stretch at all to say that they likely were used for production of chemical weapons at some point. Or do you really trust Saddam and find it actually to be unlikely that they would've been used for the purpose of chemical weapons production?

To sum up, it is IMHO difficult to draw a firm conclusion one way or the other with regards to these mobile facilities. However, it is not a stretch to look upon it with suspicion. Why clean the hell out of them if you had nothing to hide, for that matter?

The unescapable fact is that there were items missing that they never accounted for before the war began. What happened to them? You would think the CIA knows at least SOMETHING at this point. Were they dumped in a river? Somebody you would think had to have known something about their disposal. It would be nice if they were a little more forthcoming with information.

**Edit: Sorry if I resurrected a dead thread. I read a little further up and noticed UDawg's remarks about it being.......done.**

[ibGoodEnuf]

Hmmm, somebody please inform me what part of petroleum testing requires the type of equipment found on those trucks, ie dryers and fermenters .

[ibGoodEnuf]

Bueller?

[Riptide]

Hey man, don't you listen? The voices of wisdom here have stated the truth right? It was just a jelly bean factory on wheels. Maybe they were baking donuts or brewing beer at those refineries? It just COULDN'T have been a chemical weapons facility ofcourse. That would be preposterous. :rolleyes:

And FWIW, there are at least two refineries close by where I live. I have seen lots of semi tanker trucks and railcars clearly made to carry liquids from a-b, but never anything even closely resembling some sort of mobile testing equipment. Likely, if they need to test anything frequently enough to require facilities for that purpose they are at the actual refineries themselves and not mobile.

No, it looks *quite* suspicious to me. Look who we're dealing with here, after all? Someone we know at least had chemical weapons and used them. A despotic tyrant. Gee, they just HAD to be making budweiser with those things didn't they?

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
However, I'll give you the dump sites. Given that there have been no weapons found, there should at least be one big crater full of them. It's possible Iraq sold them, and the technology to produce them.

or maybe, just maybe dumped them into the Euphrates, oh wait, but Coalition troops already detected those.