Can we now finally agree that Steve Nash is OVER-RATED?

[Sazar]

Given his pouting and pussy-footing around this season, as if he's lost his lover, Nash's production is way down and he is doing little to contribute offensively to his team's success. Note, he never played any defense so the Suns are still not impacted one way or the other there.

The MVP trophy's that were so grossly devalued by being handed to Nash are still his, but I think the past 2 seasons prove that Nash never really did deserve them. Case in point, if we are going off of stats, look no farther than Chris Duhon. Does he deserve the MVP trophy for leading an absolutely abysmal team to a relatively decent record AND having better stats than Nash and at any time in his career? Note, Duhon can actually play some defense :eek:

Shaq looks like he is on a mission to prove his detractors wrong, Amare is slowly learning that while barging through 3 defenders to try and dunk may seem cool, dropping it off so his team-mates can finish pays off.

Nash? He's just chilling, passing almost as much to the opposition as he is to his own team. Note, Kidd is having a more productive season than Nash, factoring in his steals and his defense. The Wade's, Lebron's, Duncan's, Kobe's and Shaq's of the NBA (all of whom are STILL producing) were robbed 2 year's in a row by idiocy. Maybe, finally, we are seeing the true value of the former MVP, Steve Nash. Good player but not great by any stretch of the imagination. The SYSTEM made him standout, like it is working for Duhon now. Not the man.

[DiscipleDOC]

I agree 100%. I've never thought that Steve Nash deserved any MVP trophies, nor anything else of that stature. He IS overrated, and I really never thought he was a good point guard either.

[bob saget]

He has his own ghym in Vancouver. He is MVP.

Thanks for trying though.

[jcrox]

Agree 100%.

Nash has never been anything more than a product of his surroundings. MVPs make things happen for their teams, Nash's teams make things happen for him.

[bob saget]

Nash Sucks Balls.

[Sazar]

What really grinds my gears is that they almost gave him a 3'rd MVP trophy but realized they had to change the value system they were awarding it with and then ended up giving it to DIRK NOWITZKI of all people.

Kobe and Paul brought the talk back to SKILL players who contribute and Lebron appears to be the front-runner this season, along with Wade and Kobe (and a host of others).

[Tygerwoody]

Nash has always been overrated. However, I don't think its fair to say he's overrated just because of this year. He's past his prime. Of course he isn't going to play as well.

Nash didn't deserve the two MVP trophies he got. Just like Dirt didn't deserve his MVP. Kobe and Lebron should have gotten MVP these years. But thats neither here nor there. Nash is past his prime. He use to be the top point guard in the league... until Chris Paul reached his second year in the league. :D

[methimpikehoses]

The Blazers beat Boston last night without my favorite MVP candidate. (nana2)

[jcrox]

The Blazers beat Boston last night without my favorite MVP candidate. (nana2)

No one cares meth... no one cares :p

[bob saget]

I care about Kobe; and Nash's ghym.

[Zelda_fan]

Chris Duhon didn't do anything anywhere near what Nash did. The Knicks are .400 right now. When Nash came to the suns they went from almost last place to first in the league at around .750.

The reason Nash's production is down is because Terry Porter is an idiot. All Nash did for the first half of the season was walk the ball up the court and pass it into Shaq. I could do that. Ever since the J-Rich/Bell/Diaw trade, Porter has basically told the Suns to run the offense around Nash again, and guess what... they are averaging 110 a game, Nash is back to his old 10 assists per game, and the suns have been 7-3 in the last 10 games with around ~12 turnovers per game instead of ~18.

Steve Nash is a .431 3-point shooter. That's fifth in the all time NBA record, and currently higher than anyone else in the league. He has the best mid-long-range shot in the game right now.

Oh yeah, and he's hands down, the best free throw shooter of all time. How many games have the Suns won due to his free throw shooting in the last 45 seconds of the game? How many three point daggers has he thrown to seal the deal when his team is up by only three in the final 2 minutes of the game? A lot.

He deserved both MVP awards. He took a last place team and made them the first place team and the most exciting team to watch in basketball. He's not the MVP right now, and Chris Paul is a little better than him, but do I think he was ever overrated? No.

[Bearclaw]

He has his own ghym in Vancouver. He is MVP.

Thanks for trying though.

:bleh:

Anyway, I always hated this guy.

[bob saget]

:bleh:

Anyway, I always hated this guy.

yea i never been there but apparently its really pricey....

[stncttr908]

You just hate Canadians. :D

[DiscipleDOC]

You just hate Canadians. :D

Who doesn't? Heck, Canadians hate themselves. :p

I don't care about his three-point shooting pctg, because it takes much more than being able to shoot the long ball to be an MVP candidate.

Nash could never:

Go to a sub .500 team and make it a playoff contender (James, Paul have).
Take that team deep into the playoffs (James and Bryant have).
Take them to the finals (James and Bryant have).


Nash has no skills, and is not a good defensive-minded player. He have to have a supporting cast of players in order for him to perform good. Giving him the title "MVP" is kicking other MVP candidates squarely in the 'nads.:thumbdwn:

[Zelda_fan]

Who doesn't? Heck, Canadians hate themselves. :p

I don't care about his three-point shooting pctg, because it takes much more than being able to shoot the long ball to be an MVP candidate.

Nash could never:

Go to a sub .500 team and make it a playoff contender (James, Paul have).
Take that team deep into the playoffs (James and Bryant have).
Take them to the finals (James and Bryant have).


Nash has no skills, and is not a good defensive-minded player. He have to have a supporting cast of players in order for him to perform good. Giving him the title "MVP" is kicking other MVP candidates squarely in the 'nads.:thumbdwn:

Do you have a freaking clue what Nash has done for the suns man?

Before Nash came to the Suns, they had a .354 record. They were the 2nd worst team in the west. This is a team WITH amare stoudamire, shawn marion, and Mike D'Antoni that had a terrible .354 record and did not make the playoffs. Steve Nash came to the team (the only major change they made next season), and all of a sudden they are the #1 team in the NBA, and not only made it to the playoffs, but made it to the conference finals for the next two years. No one even thought stoudamire and marion were any good then Nash came and people think they're amazing. And lets not forget that one of those years, Amare had to sit the bench the entire season due to microfracture surgery.

So Nash has already done 2/3 things you've said he could "never" do. lawl. The last two years the Suns have made an early playoff exit, but sometimes people forget what Nash did for the Suns....

[bob saget]

You just hate Canadians. :D

:bleh:..........

[Zelda_fan]

Phoenix just blew out the clippers (i know - they suck). Nash dropped 11 assists.

[bob saget]

i thought clips were going to be deep team :bleh:

[Sazar]

Do you have a freaking clue what Nash has done for the suns man?

Before Nash came to the Suns, they had a .354 record. They were the 2nd worst team in the west. This is a team WITH amare stoudamire, shawn marion, and Mike D'Antoni that had a terrible .354 record and did not make the playoffs.

Well they DID have Starbury. And Amare was young and had just started coming into his own.

Steve Nash came to the team (the only major change they made next season), and all of a sudden they are the #1 team in the NBA, and not only made it to the playoffs, but made it to the conference finals for the next two years. No one even thought stoudamire and marion were any good then Nash came and people think they're amazing. And lets not forget that one of those years, Amare had to sit the bench the entire season due to microfracture surgery. [/quote]

They were both pretty good before Nash showed up and are still pretty good players, although Marion is getting a little long in the tooth. By the way, WITHOUT Amare, the Suns fizzled out didn't they? Remember that it was Amare's dominating play against the Spurs and especially Duncan the year before that gave the team belief. It wasn't Nash that carried the team against the Spurs.

So Nash has already done 2/3 things you've said he could "never" do. lawl. The last two years the Suns have made an early playoff exit, but sometimes people forget what Nash did for the Suns....

Nash has never won the big game. In fact Nash typically vanishes in the playoffs as the intensity levels ratchet up and defensive pressure becomes stronger. Note, Nash has never played defense and that is one of the key reasons the teams the Suns have faced have won. If he had played any level of defense on players like Tony Parker and other guards, MAYBE the Suns might have won.

Nash made the Suns an exciting regular season team. Even with their talent they could not make it deep into the playoffs (i.e. the FINALS).

Shaq was brought in to help out and, surprise, surprise, it is only when Shaq is playing and getting touches that the Suns look half decent.

I was at the arena last year in San Antonio for the last regular season game between the Spurs and Suns and if it wasn't for Shaq, it would have been a blowout for the Spurs. Amare can't share the paint and Nash doesn't know how to change his style of play. He only plays one way and that is why he fails.

Defend him as much as you want but 2 of the 3 emptiest MVP trophy awards in NBA history belong to him. The 3'd belongs to Dirk Nowitzki as a result of the devaluation of the worth of the award.

He is over-rated and given the play and dynamic improvements of their respective teams as a result of Deron Williams and Chris Paul, his true worth is clear to see.

[Sazar]

Chris Duhon didn't do anything anywhere near what Nash did. The Knicks are .400 right now. When Nash came to the suns they went from almost last place to first in the league at around .750.

Duhon has improved his numbers dramatically and currently is outplaying Nash. And he is doing it with a team that is grossly devoid of stars and quality players. And he is not whining about it.

Nash has always had a better supporting cast around him. By the way, Nash didn't have any kind of impact for at least the first half of his career. Duncan and Shaq, as 2 recent examples, took bottom placed teams and took them to the NBA finals, and Duncan led that team to a championship. Both of them did it with less talent than Nash has always played with.

The reason Nash's production is down is because Terry Porter is an idiot. All Nash did for the first half of the season was walk the ball up the court and pass it into Shaq. I could do that. Ever since the J-Rich/Bell/Diaw trade, Porter has basically told the Suns to run the offense around Nash again, and guess what... they are averaging 110 a game, Nash is back to his old 10 assists per game, and the suns have been 7-3 in the last 10 games with around ~12 turnovers per game instead of ~18.

I am sure Nash passing it straight to the other team or trying to force passes into a forest of players has something to do with it. Porter is doing a pretty darn good job considering his team.

And the reason they are averaging better is that Nash's bosom buddy isn't chucking up shots from all over the place. Porter's stamp is slowly being seen on this team. They can still score but they are defending a little better. Except for a certain point-guard.

Steve Nash is a .431 3-point shooter. That's fifth in the all time NBA record, and currently higher than anyone else in the league. He has the best mid-long-range shot in the game right now.

I guess with respect to your comments, Kerr and Kapono are the greatest players in NBA history?

Oh yeah, and he's hands down, the best free throw shooter of all time. How many games have the Suns won due to his free throw shooting in the last 45 seconds of the game? How many three point daggers has he thrown to seal the deal when his team is up by only three in the final 2 minutes of the game? A lot.

A couple of things, he is NOT first in the free-throw shooting ranks of percentages, so he is not the best shooter of all time. And 2nd, he has played in the league longer than many other players and I believe Kobe still has him beat for game-winners and game winning free-throws. Oh and Kobe also has 3 rings and 4 finals appearances.

Heck, Vince Carter probably has more game-winning 3's than Nash but he's not exactly on the championship roll either.

He deserved both MVP awards. He took a last place team and made them the first place team and the most exciting team to watch in basketball. He's not the MVP right now, and Chris Paul is a little better than him, but do I think he was ever overrated? No.

Of course you wouldn't think he was over-rated. You are completely over-looking the fact that he came into a system that was perfect for him and prospered. Lebron and Kobe and Wade have all developed their skills to work WITH the system, it wasn't setup for them, and are reaping or have reaped the benefits.

Nash has always been, is and always will be a one-dimensional player. There is no way the MVP trophy should go to a guy who is one-dimensional and has not elevated his team above "'exciting'.

Shaq and Kobe and Lebrong all had much stronger cases for winning awards the years that Nash did. They all did more for their teams on both ends of the court and elevated their teams way above the levels they would have been at. Shaq took 3 different teams to the promised land. Lebron looks like he will be taking the Cav's deep again and Kobe has been been ridiculous, even without having to play many minutes.

You excuse his massive inadequacies on the basketball court to elevate him above all these other guys, but you forget one thing.

John Stockton NEVER won an MVP. Even with his free-throws and assists and 3-pointers and so forth. Without him, the Utah team would have floundered, but he did have Karl Malone who DID win an MVP. But then again, John actually played in the NBA finals and he didn't have as many turnovers in crucial situations or vanish during the playoffs.

Oh, and btw, Stockton has the NBA record (modern day) for steals. Nash? I think he'd have to play for a few more decades to get close.