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jAkUp
05-28-03, 05:04 PM
sorry if this has been posted already, i cant seem to find it anywhere... but here is an interview with nvidia dated may 28

http://boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=1032


here are 2 quotes found in the interview:
- Even though we arenít happy with 3DMark 2003 it has been necessary for us to adapt our drivers to the benchmark program, because it is used in comparisons everywhere. Itís not with our good will, as our driver team actually thinks adapting the drivers cuts down on the performance in the games. In spite of that, they have succeeded in getting better performance both places, said Adam Foat.

hehe and i found this one pretty funny :D
But what about the noisy fan, called FlowFX?

Adam laughs a little and explains: - The developers actually thought it was cool. They thought the gamers who bought high-end graphic cards wanted it to sound like a Ferrari, so the people around them could hear they had a cool card in their machine. I wonít hide the fact that I was very surprised when I heard the computer starting for the first time with the card installed.

StealthHawk
05-28-03, 05:28 PM
We were very happy with the 2001 version. It was based on a graphic engine which was used for Max Payne Ė an actual game. The 2003 version isnít made on a game engine, but consists of four main tests, which have been developed by Futuremark. They call it the gamersí DirectX 9 benchmark, but the first part runs on DirectX 7, the next two are based on DirectX 8. The last part consists of nine tests of which only two runs DirectX 9. We didnít find it accurate enough either, since the results varies a lot each try.

And 3dmark2001 was a DX8 test....with only one game test for DX8. What's different here?

jbirney
05-28-03, 05:41 PM
Nothing.

I love it how they (NV) complain that its taking time from their driver team to write drivers to be optimized for only 3dmarks. Remember the last set of Det3 drivers for the GF3 cards? Remember how only the Nature test of 3dmark2001 saw that increase. Remember how no other game saw any speed increase? They have been spending time to optimize for 3dmarks for a long time. They are only upset that the FX core is weak at DX9 functions.

The 3dmark2001 is better cuz it used a real engine is bunk. Look at the K2 vrs the GF2 Mx. 3dmark2001 showed the MX to be much faster. And yet in Max Payne the k2 was faster than the MX and thats based off the same dam engine. Also look at how the K2 does in the UPT. Again UT2k3 uses DX8 PS and mostly a DX7 rendering engine. This should have been a pice of cake for 3dmarks2001 right? Wrong. Once again the K2 was faster than an MX.

Then look at Q3 scores. NV is always way ahead in Q3. But in RtCW, JK2 games that use the same engine they are a bit behind.

Look at UT2k3 and then Splinter Cell benchmarks. Again there is a difference while using the same engine....

So whats this tell you. It says that even when games use the same engine you can not take scores from one benchmark and say the same trend applies to another game. Each game has differnet bottle necks. And yes I know why RtCW and the others run slower. So if you can not even get a guess on prefromance when different games use more or less the SAME dam engine..then how is a Synth becnh that uses an engine (for one game that was not even a DX8 game BTW) any better? Its not.

Once again a classic PR spin.

Solomon
05-28-03, 05:53 PM
nVidia must really think we are the dumbest people alive. First 3DMark03, how much we might all hate it is used in every publication and every internet review (mostly). To say that we don't like it and so on and so on is a joke. People read publications and look at "numbers"... If (A) has a higher number then (B), then it must be better. This is how most of the sales of video cards are determine. Business is business. Pfffft. They put up some excuse to saying that it's not a game engine or whatever. The execuses are so tiring to hear.

To tell us otherwise is stupid. I swear PR people think everyone they talk too must be stuck in the Ice Age... nVidia should really pull a St. Valentines day on their PR staff. :eek:

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

solofly
05-28-03, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Solomon
nVidia must really think we are the dumbest people alive. First 3DMark03, how much we might all hate it is used in every publication and every internet review (mostly). To say that we don't like it and so on and so on is a joke. People read publications and look at "numbers"...

So tell me why does nVidia today, still outsell Ati 3 to 1, eh?

digitalwanderer
05-28-03, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by solofly
So tell me why does nVidia today, still outsell Ati 3 to 1, eh?

1. People are stupid sheep.
2. nVidia has been relying on their name & reputation.

Now number one appears to be slowly changing as people are starting to notice nVidia's underhanded practices, number two they seem to be bending over backwards to destroy all by there own self!

I don't expect them to be outselling ATi 3 to 1 this time next year, and you can bank on that. :)

solofly
05-28-03, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
1. People are stupid sheep.

I thought he said... "People read publications and look at "numbers"... " and you say different?

creedamd
05-28-03, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by solofly
So tell me why does nVidia today, still outsell Ati 3 to 1, eh?

because that is the same ratio of smart/dumb people. Do you know that gf4mx's are selling like hotcakes? I have seen people upgrade from a gf3 to a gf4mx. I EVEN TOLD THEM IT WAS CRAP!!

Solomon
05-28-03, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by solofly
So tell me why does nVidia today, still outsell Ati 3 to 1, eh?

Can you show me were nVidia outsells ATi 3 to 1 "today" ? Maybe last year, but where are the numbers to say that they are selling 3 to 1 over ATi? eh?

Plus, nVidia was in more OEM systems then ATi has been. ATi is starting to get more and more into OEM systems. But nVidia still dominates the OEM sector and their budget cards are practically in every system sold to man.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

solofly
05-28-03, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by creedamd
Do you know that gf4mx's are selling like hotcakes?

Good! I was one that bought one too. Does that make me any lesser than the next guy...

Hellbinder
05-28-03, 08:42 PM
Plus, nVidia was in more OEM systems then ATi has been. ATi is starting to get more and more into OEM systems.

As Solomon suggests, I think by the end of this Fiscal year you are going to see a pretty significant change in the numbers.

1. Dell went with ATi
2. Asus and several others Went ATi's P4 Chipset (radeon 9200)
3. Many add in board companies are now selling ATi hardware
4. The General *buzz* is Shifting to a more ballanced market.

All the above things mark the signs of Change in the next several Financial Quarters.

Solomon
05-28-03, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by solofly
Good! I was one that bought one too. Does that make me any lesser than the next guy...

Ah! That explains why you said what you said. Thanks for the clarification..... GeForce 4 MX .. lol

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

Solomon
05-28-03, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
As Solomon suggests, I think by the end of this Fiscal year you are going to see a pretty significant change in the numbers.

1. Dell went with ATi
2. Asus and several others Went ATi's P4 Chipset (radeon 9200)
3. Many add in board companies are now selling ATi hardware
4. The General *buzz* is Shifting to a more ballanced market.

All the above things mark the signs of Change in the next several Financial Quarters.

Exactly... ATi is picking up in the OEM sector finally due to their 9700 Pro impact. And it's comical that nVidia is ragging on 3DMark now. They dominated all the way up to when the 9700 Pro was released. Now that the tides have shifted with 3DMark and nVidia, they are now saying it's not worthy. Even though, like I stated above that every magazine and internet review (uses it). They know everyone uses it to judge, they are just making excuses.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

solofly
05-28-03, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Solomon
Can you show me were nVidia outsells ATi 3 to 1 "today" ? Maybe last year, but where are the numbers to say that they are selling 3 to 1 over ATi? eh?

I know some people in high places ;) and those are the numbers... (take it or leave it)

Hellbinder
05-28-03, 08:49 PM
I know some people in high places and those are the numbers...

Pardon me but my BS detector just went off the chart. Ill be right back.. i need to get my Hip Waders on... :afro:

Solomon
05-28-03, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by solofly
I know some people in high places ;) and those are the numbers...

:) Let me guess it's a nVidia representative and not a unofficial third party representative? :p The day I ever believe any nVidia PR person, I'm going to be buying every bridge in the U.S. Heh

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

solofly
05-28-03, 08:52 PM
Take it or leave it... (i don't care)lol

digitalwanderer
05-28-03, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Solomon
Can you show me were nVidia outsells ATi 3 to 1 "today" ? Maybe last year, but where are the numbers to say that they are selling 3 to 1 over ATi? eh?

Plus, nVidia was in more OEM systems then ATi has been. ATi is starting to get more and more into OEM systems. But nVidia still dominates the OEM sector and their budget cards are practically in every system sold to man.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

Thanks for pointing that out, and thanks for your .02 too HB as I agree with it.

Just another thing...ATi is having a hard time making enough chips to keep up with supply while nVidia has YET to actually bring one of their new uber-cards to market. ;)

Originally posted by solofly
Good! I was one that bought one too. Does that make me any lesser than the next guy...

No, but...

Originally posted by solofly
I know some people in high places ;) and those are the numbers... (take it or leave it)

...THAT sure does! :lol:

Originally posted by solofly
Take it or leave it... (i don't care)lol

Uhm...leave it. :)

Ady
05-28-03, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by solofly
Good! I was one that bought one too. Does that make me any lesser than the next guy...

yes :afro2: :angel:

Typedef Enum
05-28-03, 09:17 PM
Your 3:1 ratio is a completely meaningless figure...

I mean, that's the kind of number somebody from nVidia might tell somebody when talking about how dominant they are in the desktop PC market...They have a way of spinning numbers in their favor.

But by itself, it doesn't really tell you much.

A few years ago, 3dfx used to do the same thing whenever talking about marketshare numbers...They were clearly falling behind nVidia at the time, but were extremely dominant when it came to _retail_ sales...In the grand scheme of things, it's not where you really want to be...but the way they would portray the figure, you would think that 3dfx was the absolute leader in desktop PC sales. Meanwhile, nVidia was cleaning house with all the OEM's, raking in serious $$...and the rest was history.

Hellbinder
05-28-03, 09:21 PM
Of course you do...$500 worth of free video cards makes some people do cartwheels...

Ok so what about the actual inforation do you disagree with??

Surely that is more informative and imoprtant than an unnecessary insinuation like this. If you have specific points contrary to my Four.. please share.

Behemoth
05-28-03, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by solofly
So tell me why does nVidia today, still outsell Ati 3 to 1, eh?
because 3 in 4 were average users
because 3 in 4 believed 3DMark scores :p

solofly
05-28-03, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Ady
yes :afro2: :angel:

Now I know some people are jealous so they have to troll instead. Blows me away how many Ati fanboys run around here...

Solomon
05-28-03, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by solofly
Now I know some people are jealous so they have to troll instead. Blows me away how many Ati fanboys run around here...

Why is it when someone makes a valid point against Nvidia they are just known as a ATi Fanboy? It seems if you knock down or bring points up that is negative toward nVidia you are automatically a ATi Fan boy? Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft. That logic is surely not correct and is ignorant. Oh for the record, I'm using a Matrox Parhelia, because ATi nor Nvidia are capable of my needs.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

solofly
05-28-03, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Solomon
Why is it when someone makes a valid point against Nvidia they are just known as a ATi Fanboy? It seems if you knock down or bring points up that is negative toward nVidia you are automatically a ATi Fan boy? Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft. That logic is surely not correct and is ignorant. Oh for the record, I'm using a Matrox Parhelia, because ATi nor Nvidia are capable of my needs.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

I don't mind talking but insulting is another thing...