R360 Speculation Revisited

[DSC]

Loci/R390/R420 and now Loki.... how many more codenames will they tack onto this chip.... :p :D

And since when it's a "new" architechture? When most ppl claim it's just another speed bumped R3xx? :confused:

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by DSC
Loci/R390/R420 and now Loki.... how many more codenames will they tack onto this chip.... :p :D

And since when it's a "new" architechture? When most ppl claim it's just another speed bumped R3xx? :confused:
Well, the R420 is new architecture since it has support for PS 3.0, VS 3.0 and PCI Express interface.

Of course the PCI Express interface thing is going to be a problem right now since there aren't that many PCI Express motherboards at the moment.

[Brick_Top]

Originally posted by sbp
MuFu is talking about Loci which has become the R400.

I thought that was r390/r420=:confused:

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by nagus
IMHO the R360 will never make it into market. i guess ati is focusing on R400 (LOCI).

but thats not tragic. ati doesn´t need the R360 IMHO
Nah. The Loki (R420) won't be available for a while since it's supposedly a PCI Express part.

So it most likely won't be marketed until Q2 2004 at the earliest unless ATI uses a PCI Express to AGP bridge or some other kludge like that.

ATI will need something to bridge them over so that's where a speed bump part comes in... the R360.

Since it's mostly a speed bump a lot of R&D isn't really needed so it shouldn't hurt the Loki, and the Loki is a new architecture so the R360 doesn't compete against the Loki.

[GlowStick]

Ha, they say loki is a pci express chip, i say bs. so if they pump loki out this year and say "buy our cards, sure you can use them yet, but still buy them" or they could just make it agp...!!!

[Uttar]

Hmm... How in the world can Fudo know that and have no idea about the reason R400 was canned?
I still can't post this at GPU:RW, because my darn script is broken! :(


Uttar

[Hanners]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Ha, they say loki is a pci express chip, i say bs. so if they pump loki out this year and say "buy our cards, sure you can use them yet, but still buy them" or they could just make it agp...!!!

You didn't read the whole article at The Inquirer, did you?

How will ATI solve the problem that this chip will be PCI Express based, and all that you will be able to buy until Q1 2004 is AGP 8X at the best?

The answer is that ATI is going to develop a PCI Express to AGP bridge, so it will work with existing AGP platforms and still work when PCI Express boards hit the market.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Hanners
You didn't read the whole article at The Inquirer, did you?

they are makeing stuff up.

so basicly,

when the consumer goes to buy loki they are getting agp8x

riggght, sure is completely diffrent.

[Hanners]

Originally posted by GlowStick
they are makeing stuff up.

so basicly,

when the consumer goes to buy loki they are getting agp8x

riggght, sure is completely diffrent.

Yes, that's what they are saying. The chip is being designed around PCI Express, but an AGP 8x bridge chip can be used so that an AGP 8x variant can be manufactured and sold.

Whether everything in that article is correct or not is another matter, but the idea that ATi are stupid enough to bring out a PCI Express only solution in Q1 of next year is nothing short of ridiculous.

[R.Carter]

Well, it's always best to get your card out there as one of the first peripheral for a new bus technology since you can be pretty sure that the motherboards will be compatible with your peripheral since there aren't a whole lot of others out there to test with.

After all, ATI is a member of the PCI Express Developers Network so it looks good if they are working on a compatible device.

So I think that is part of the reason that ATI is aggressive with PCI Express and really AGP is pretty much dead (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7885) at this point so why not make their new design PCI Express?

Perhaps PCI Express is why the R400 was stopped since it was an AGP part?

See: ATI, Intel sort out PCI Express graphics future (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8000).

[Uttar]

Originally posted by R.Carter
Perhaps PCI Express is why the R400 was stopped since it was an AGP part?

Converting an AGP ASIC into a PCI Express one shouldn't be too hard at all. No, really, I don't think it got anything to do with that :)


Uttar

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Uttar
Converting an AGP ASIC into a PCI Express one shouldn't be too hard at all.
True. What I was thinking was that perhaps they took the R400 and used it to make the R420. I.e. R420 is just the R400 w/ native PCI Express interface?

If so, what is the logic in making the R400, other than that it is a true AGP part? Of course, if they could get R400 out sooner (Q3 / Q4 2003) it might make sense from marketing point to get Christmas sales and to fight off the possible NV40.

Most likely ATI didn't feel they could get R400 out soon enough (given budgets, etc.) so they dropped it in favour of the R420.

When PCI Express shows up they would need to add a AGP-to-PCI Express bridge chip to cards to be able to offer a PCI Express card.

If ATI is confident that they can make a decent PCI Express-to-AGP Bridge chip then there shouldn't really be all that great a need for a true AGP part (i.e. R400).

Originally posted Intel Roadmaps Revealed (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1826&p=3)
ATI and NVIDIA have already announced support for PCI Express interfaces on their graphics cards, initially using an AGP-PCI Express bridge, but eventually they will offer native PCI Express cards. We would expect some Gartsdale boards to ship with AGP support as you can't really expect users that buys $500 video cards to toss them in order to move to Gartsdale.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Brick_Top
I thought that was r390/r420=:confused:

It is. The original R400 was canned. Loci/R390/R420 is the new R400.

[Geforce4ti4200]

so will it be radeon9900 pro? :confused:

[Uttar]

That would make sense, R. Carter - if the R400 design wasn't a billion times more ambitious than the R420/Loci one :)


Uttar

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Uttar
That would make sense, R. Carter - if the R400 design wasn't a billion times more ambitious than the R420/Loci one :)

True. Rumours had it that the R400 would have ~ 200 million transitors and from what I'm hearing, the R420 has only ~ 110 to 150 million transitors. So it's most likely not a rebadged R400.

Oh well... no idea why they killed the R400 if it isn't realted to competition between the R420 / R400 or related to PCI Express.

The ATI Marlborough team is currently working on the R500. Most thought that they were the ones working on the R400, so most likely cast that the R500 replaced the R400.

However, apparently the R500 is expected to appear in about 2005

[MuFu]

Originally posted by R.Carter
The ATI Marlborough team is currently working on the R500. Most thought that they were the ones working on the R400, so most likely cast that the R500 replaced the R400.

I'd be suprised if an entire project is base at Marlborough (unless there has been some major reorganisation recently). I bet they're working on R500 in Toronto and Marlborough are just "helping out", possibly with some of the I/O stuff.

MuFu.